22 replies to this topic

[Sacred Nym]

I thought I'd come back to ZC and try my hand once again at questmaking. I've only been reminded how much more complicated it's gotten with FFCs and scripting alone. I feel like I have to relearn everything I've ever known about questbuilding from the ground up. Which is discouraging beyond belief.

Which is why I bring this up. What do you, modern questmakers who actually understand half of this new stuff, expect out of a quest? Be it someone completely new to the program or someone like me who's been dabbling with it for nearly 3 years now. What's expected of us?

[CastChaos]

First of all, the latest stable version doesn't have scripts or FFCs, so they aren't a requirement. Of course, if you still choose a bugtesting version, it's a nice touch if you use the signpost, NPC, item message, drownable water and pit scripts, as well as use FFCs for bosses, obstacles and some misc details (like children running around, etc.)

Otherwise, the only requirement for me is that you make a good quest. All other requirements are coming from what you use as base. For example, if you use the Classic LoZ set, I don't expect you to make custom bosses, but a DoR/PTUX quest without custom bosses is lousy, no matter what other neat things are in.

It's also a common expectation from me to name your levels instead of just numbering them.

So, I can point out exact expectations if you show small bits of a quest. As you can see from what I just wrote, tileset choice is already an important factor. Just think of a dreamstoryof yours that you really want to tell or think of a great gameplay that you really want the players to experience, and start the quest. Make a thread for it with information and at least one screen. THEN can I tell what I expect from it.

[jerome]

Everyone is going to be different on this one. CastChaos summed up a lot of good points. For me what makes a good/great quest is keeping my attention. A lot of the time, not all, I like quests that focus on gameplay, not stories. However, I have found a few that keep my interest with stories (one of which I am testing right now). The humor in them is what helps for me.

Some people will want puzzles, some fighting, some stories, some just want pretty throughout and not seem to care how well it plays or not. The thing I think works best is... stick with your strengths in questmaking. If you 'd like to venture into something else, try it. You'll either do good, bad, or ehh.

As many have said before me "Just make the quest for yourself and see if anyone else likes it." I made a quest that focuses on gameplay/fighting/surviving in the classic tileset. It had a steep ramp of difficulty for the levels that jumped up a lot and then dropped down for size of one level and then jumped up and up from there past it. It was a challenge to me, so I figured others may like it as well. Some did, and some didn't. A lot of those that played it, only played it because of the classic tileset, others won't even touch it because of the same. Some didn't like how you start off with the blue candle instead of a sword, I did in other quests and partly as tribute to those others, that's why I made it that way. Others liked how you didn't have the sword for a couple of levels. Some didn't like the difficulty, others enjoyed the challenge. Note: 'swordless at the beginning quests' can be somewhat cloggy as some have described by mine and others' quests. Basically, you're not going to please everyone, so just don't worry about it, just what you want.

Doubt that helps any, but thanks for reading!!

[Alestance]

Originality, Great mechanics, Great Story, Great use of Graphics(Note: I said USE of graphics.)

Originality: Gotta think outside the box. If you make a quest that is too much like any other quest, no one will want to play it long. Try doing something different, make something new, use scripts(if you use 2.5) Make us WOW.

Great Mechanics: Test! TEST! TEST!!! Make sure you stamp every and all bugs you find, and get some volunteers to beta test your quest. If you can and use scripts, make sure they work correctly.

Great use of Graphics: If you are using a tileset, make sure you know how to use the combos, tiles, etc. Know Layers, FCCs, etc. Be careful how you set up dungeon entrances, houses, monuments, obelisks, ruins, forests, swamps, beaches. If you have to draw your own graphics, try hard to make them blend in with the set you use. If you need a new tile, or new graphics and can't make them yourself, use the Developer's Exchange, and specify the tileset, palette and c-set numbers, whether you want them in 8-bit color, etc.

[DarkFlameWolf]

Words of C-dawg:
"I want a quest to reach out of the screen and blow me."
lol, but seriously, I would like a quest which introduced enough new things to keep the game fresh, but still stuck to the original formula of 9 dungeons. Call me old fashioned, but that style of gameplay really appeals to me.

[Peteo]

What do I expect out of a quest?

Too much. That's why I always end up disappointed when I get my hopes up in a case of new an interesting looking ZC quests... though there hasn't been one of those in a loong time. This now retired ZC vet is disappointed at what ZC has become.

[Alestance]

My desires for a creating a new game means I must drop ZC and program my own game.

ZC's limits are far too much for me to make a game in it.

[Schwa]

Peteo, must you go on about something negative every time you post in the ZC forums? Come on, man.

As for Nym's question... I'm more of a gameplay guy, like Jerome, not big on the stories, though the story aspect helps a bit. I'm a HUGE sucker for level design-- that right there is what speaks most to me in a quest. In my opinion, Mr. Z was and is the master of level design. Though people have told me I design dungeons in a similar fashion to his... I dunno if I agree with that... If you want an example of what I mean in terms of level design, Link's Birthday DX says it all, ESPECIALLY Level 5 (the Ice Fortress).

I also encourage you to use 2.10 instead of 2.5 if you want... That's what I'm doing, and a lot of people still seem to be in love with Molka Elite (slow as it is), because even without FFCs and scripting and whatever, you can still do some pretty damn amazing things with 2.10.

[Plissken]

What do I expect out of a quest?

Too much. That's why I always end up disappointed when I get my hopes up in a case of new an interesting looking ZC quests... though there hasn't been one of those in a loong time. This now retired ZC vet is disappointed at what ZC has become.

Hope you're comfortable up on your high horse...

Seriously, look around, you'll find that there's plenty of interesting looking quests. I mean, if you read up on my quest at all you'll find it much more than a Zelda game. I just find it incredibly idiotic when people who've succeeded in the past do nothing but try to break the spirits of current folks just cause...they're bored? ...they're elitists? ...they're people who's head is so far shoved up their bum they haven't breathed a fresh scent of air in quite some time?

I personally hope it's all three.

Wonder how fast this'll get modded. "OH NOES SOMEONE ACTUALLY SAID SOMETHING TO GOD PETEO! RUN!"

Edited by Plissken, 31 October 2008 - 03:28 PM.

[Alestance]

Heh, I consider no other a God, infact, the only game I played of Peteo's(and even heard of.) was The Wily Wars.

Never was a fan of Megaman, and I just couldn't get into that quest anyway. I didn't make it far.

[Schwa]

Plissken, you're my hero and I agree with you 100%.

Also your Quest is fantastic no matter what Peteo thinks. We're still talking about Despair, correct? I've been gone a good 3 months so it's news to me if you've switched, in which case I'm searching the forumz for a Project Thread right now.

[Plissken]

Yeah Despair, except Despair has changed quite a bit since you saw.

[Soarin]

What I expect out of a quest good tileset and a good story.

[Fire Wizzrobe]

I expect a quest to fun and interesting enough to keep me entertained to look forward to playing the whole game. That means new gameplay concepts beyond the standard zelda and non-repetitiveness with a challenging difficulty. Story, music, and graphics are just extras outside of the core and are not as nearly important. Tetris didn't need them. But I still would be really impressed by never-before seen or heard original graphics and music to break from monotony of the usual ripped stuff.

I personally spend a ton of time building graphics and not the quest, but my excuse for my supposed hypocrisy is that I am focusing my on improving my art skills rather than game design skills.

Edited by Fire Wizzrobe, 02 November 2008 - 08:05 PM.

[Mitchfork]

It's interesting to see what everybody expects- and it also goes to show that you will never please anybody, so don't make unnecessary changes just for the sake of making your quest more liked. I want to see a quest that feels professional- the graphics, the music, the gameplay, everything has to flow and not feel like it was tacked on.

The graphics should look good, but good is relative. I am simply not interested in the vast majority of Classic quests, but some people may prefer that to the new DoR. More important than just being good, though, they have to be consistent and they have to be used correctly. If you're going to use the uber-detailed NoeL Mountains, don't put in classic trees! Look at all of the good game throughout gaming history- their graphics all looked like they were drawn by the same person, in the same style. Also about graphics, learn how to use them. If you are using DoR mountains, don't use a straight tile on a corner. Stuff like that kills quests.

I won't say much about music, except that it needs to be of good quality. If that means putting in some extra work and changing the instruments on a few tracks, so be it.

Gameplay is the most "make or break" aspect of quests, but it's also the most misunderstood. I think that the official Zelda games have been very good in this aspect. A lot of games on the market also fail in this regard. Take Assassin's Creed- the reason I did not like that game is because of the gameplay. It had a brilliant combat system that was very simple but extremely player dependent- that is, different people can fight in totally different styles. But it was the same thing over, and over, and over. I hate to see that in quests- if you're going to put in block puzzles, great, but don't put one in every five rooms. If you're going to go a combat-heavy route, great, but there shouldn't be a Darknut in every room.

So really, it's all about balance. If you want your quest to be good, make it good the whole way through, not just at certain points.