27 replies to this topic

[Tree]

Okay, so i wanted to make a screen were there is a mountain on the sand, but then the sand ends and the mountain continues into the water.

like this.


but, as pointed out in the yellow circle, that really doesn't look good at all. so, is there a way to make it look
good?

[Adem]

I don't think saying you hate the tileset was a very nice move. It's rude to the person who made it, and makes people less likely to help.

Anyways, are you sure there's no layer tiles you can use? I could have sworn there was something that fixed that...I can't check since I don't have ZC on this computer, but I remember solving that problem somehow. o__o Look around a bit more in the tileset, maybe you'll find something. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

[Tree]

I don't think saying you hate the tileset was a very nice move. It's rude to the person who made it, and makes people less likely to help.

Anyways, are you sure there's no layer tiles you can use? I could have sworn there was something that fixed that...I can't check since I don't have ZC on this computer, but I remember solving that problem somehow. o__o Look around a bit more in the tileset, maybe you'll find something. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

okay...i don't really hate dor tileset. i love it a much as the next guy. its just, i really hate it when this happens. i have made many maps with dor tileset that ended up this way.

[Geoffrey]

Tilesets are...never fully complete, there are always things you need to make new tiles for.

[Lemon]

Small graphical errors are fine and do not detract from the quest. If you left it as is, no one would care.

It's great to have completely smooth graphic, but in order to do so (with that level of detail) you'd have to make tiles for pretty much every occasion which takes forever and is ultimately far less important that the quest itself.

[Master Maniac]

that's actually a relatively easy fix. Just take the sand that borders the water, and extend that border along the edge of the mountain. Not much, just enough to be un-walkable, but visually pleasing. Then you could change that mountain tile as well

Also, I sense a very angry radien approaching...

[Bayta]

What I did when I encountered this problem in my own quest, was I made copies of the wave tiles, and edited out the sand. I then made new combos for them, and placed them over the mountain combos, on layer 2.

So it came out looking like this

Hope this helps.

[Moosh]

Hmm... If I may give advice, sometimes the best thing to do when nothing else works is change the layout a bit. Could you maybe have some sunken ruins cover up the awkward transition?

[Tree]

What I did when I encountered this problem in my own quest, was I made copies of the wave tiles, and edited out the sand. I then made new combos for them, and placed them over the mountain combos, on layer 2.

So it came out looking like this

Hope this helps.

maybe. it seems hard to make tiles like that...i am not very good at tile making yet...

[Radien]

Okay, I took some time and tried to make as detailed an example for you as possible. Before I get into it, though, a couple of comments:

What you are trying to do is, admittedly, tricky. You see, you're trying to take the existing tiles and work them into a very exact shape. When you use a detailed set like DoR, though, sometimes you have to let the tiles flow for themselves, and change your plans to accommodate the way they end up working. I've done that in the following example.

Of course, there are also one or two tricks that will help you. I used one that requires layering. Layering is a great way to get around problems and avoid making new tiles. Hopefully this will give you ideas about how to do it without messing up the graphics.

Be sure to read through this entire post before you edit your screen.

So, first of all, here's what you want on layer 0:



Note the out-of-place seashore tile that cuts into the cliff towards the bottom-left. Here's why you have that.
This is what you should put on layer 1:



Yes, just one combo.
Here's how it all comes together. I've numbered some areas on the image so I can make some notes:



You see, as you might have noticed, I changed more than one or two things. Hopefully I've noted them in the best order to help you see what I did.

1. - This is the part you were having trouble with. Hopefully the first two images will help you understand what's going on. The surf goes "under" the corner mountain tile so the transition isn't so obvious. There's still a straight line visible between the dark water and the wave ripples, but it's not too noticeable. LttP has much more blatant graphical inconsistencies, and it's a professional game.

Also notice that I've extended the land here so it juts out further into the sea. The layer 1 screenshot above should demonstrate why.

2. - Here's a part you may not have noticed. That particular "sharp inward corner" consists of two combos, not one. One goes above the other. Those two inward corner tiles should almost always be used together, even if you think it looks "okay" without the top one. Trust me, changing this will help you avoid problems in the future. And as a bonus, on this screen, it gives the player more space to move. See #3:

3. - By raising the "inward corner" by one combo, you'll notice that these mountains don't extend down quite as far. It should be easy to accommodate, as long as you're aware of the difference.


...Now... Obviously, I made other changes as well, but they should be easier to follow. For starters, note that every single SD3 grass combo uses a high-detail 3-color tile. I didn't use the 2-color tile at all. I also made a lot of use of the 2x2 grass combo pattern that you'll see in the Dor combo list. I recommend keeping those four combos in a square most of the time, much like the combo list demonstrates.

Also, likewise, don't just use the same sand tile for the entire beach. DoR has 5 sandy open terrain tiles for a reason. Scatter them around. Also, like the grass, there is a 2x2 pattern that looks best with the tiles. Try to use the combo list as an example of a pattern that looks good. The combo list actually provides a handy 4x2 pattern with multiple instances of the same tiles. Just try not to let it look too repetitive and you'll be golden.


One last note: this is NOT the only correct way to do this -- or perhaps better wording would be "effective way to do this." But if you want ONE way that you can be sure works pretty well, feel free to copy this exactly. Hopefully you will learn something useful that can be adapted to other screens. I do, however, recommend that you make use of the layering technique and take note of the height difference at the "inward corner" I mentioned.

What I did when I encountered this problem in my own quest, was I made copies of the wave tiles, and edited out the sand. I then made new combos for them, and placed them over the mountain combos, on layer 2.

So it came out looking like this

Hope this helps.

Hmmm, that looks better than overlapping the waves completely on top of the mountains. The downside is that it looks like the surf should be walkable, but I'm assuming you made it solid water.

Still, that's a reasonably good solution. I might edit some tiles that accomplish that without layering and submit them sometime. We'll see.

[Master Maniac]

Radien, I'd quote you, but that's a rather large wall of text.

Just wanted to say, "I told you so". Seems like you blew the cover off of everything I've ever done in DoR with those >.<

[Radien]

Radien, I'd quote you, but that's a rather large wall of text.

Yeah... well, it's basically a tutorial in reply form.

Just wanted to say, "I told you so". Seems like you blew the cover off of everything I've ever done in DoR with those >.<

"I told you so" about your opinion on the tiles, or about an "angry Radien approaching"?

I'm a little annoyed about the way this topic was introduced -- since it is no stretch of the imagination to think that a topic with this title might be a "hate thread" -- but I'm not annoyed about a tileset user needing help.

I might become annoyed again, however, if my help is dismissed or overlooked. Since the release of the DoR tileset, I've tried to set myself apart by helping users whenever they need it. Today I spent over an hour reviewing the tileset and working on example screenshots, all so I could type up the instructional post above. I'm perfectly fine spending the time to write it. I'll only be annoyed if all that is ignored.

[Sephiroth]

-snip-

Since the release of the DoR tileset, I've tried to set myself apart by helping users whenever they need it. Today I spent over an hour reviewing the tileset and working on example screenshots, all so I could type up the instructional post above. I'm perfectly fine spending the time to write it. I'll only be annoyed if all that is ignored.

I just felt the need to drop my 2¢ here. Radien has been extremely helpful to me with my issues whenever I've prodded him for assistance. Not all tileset makers do this, and I really applaud him for it. ^_^

[Master Maniac]

Yeah... well, it's basically a tutorial in reply form.
"I told you so" about your opinion on the tiles, or about an "angry Radien approaching"?

I'm a little annoyed about the way this topic was introduced -- since it is no stretch of the imagination to think that a topic with this title might be a "hate thread" -- but I'm not annoyed about a tileset user needing help.

I might become annoyed again, however, if my help is dismissed or overlooked. Since the release of the DoR tileset, I've tried to set myself apart by helping users whenever they need it. Today I spent over an hour reviewing the tileset and working on example screenshots, all so I could type up the instructional post above. I'm perfectly fine spending the time to write it. I'll only be annoyed if all that is ignored.

Yeah, I was talking about the "angry radien approaching" part. I meant no offense by it at all.

By the way, the DoR tileset is the only one I use. So there
</suckup>

Either way though, all of your tutorials work wonders.

[Radien]

I just felt the need to drop my 2¢ here. Radien has been extremely helpful to me with my issues whenever I've prodded him for assistance. Not all tileset makers do this, and I really applaud him for it. ^_^

Haha, thanks a lot... To be fair, you had caught me at a really good time for that. Since then, I still have a lot more free time than I'd like, being stuck at home recovering. If I always had this much free time maybe I could earn gold stars from everyone...

Yeah, I was talking about the "angry radien approaching" part. I meant no offense by it at all.

By the way, the DoR tileset is the only one I use. So there
</suckup>

Either way though, all of your tutorials work wonders.

Well, I don't think I was angry, per se, but I was a bit frustrated, of course.

Thanks, no sucking up required. But I'm glad you liked the tutorials. Not many people comment on those. (Assuming you meant the ones I made for the tileset)