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Discussion about New BS and Zelda Classic version 2.5


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#1 Radien

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 08:06 AM

Okay, this is an idea I was tossing about. I'm not seriously starting work on them right now, partially because I have other projects to work on right now, but also because 2.5 is still in beta. Basically, I'm wondering what ZC version 2.5 has to offer the BS tileset specifically.

Originally, this was a poll. However, I decided that I don't really want to talk about whether you want to see BS in version 2.5. It's really easy to say "heck yes" when somebody else is doing the work. icon_razz.gif Instead, I'd like to discuss what the upgrade would entail, and see what people think they have been missing.

My first priority with the New BS tileset -- besides making it functional and easy to use -- is to use ZC to accomplish as many things as possible that were seen in the actual BS Zelda emulator ROM. I also like to use new features to do new things with only slight alterations to the old graphics. icon_smile.gif For instance, using BS mountains on layers.

Let me convey a few of my specific ideas:

1. Grassy Mountains

Creating these is problematic in version 1.92. Why? Because of the BS palette. Grasses use three greens, but the CSet with three greens replaces the rich browns with dull greys. icon_unsettled.gif Hence you either need to use layering or part with traditional BS graphics in order to do something else. The "CSet2" feature is useful, too, but it still divides each tile into four distinct parts.

...8-bit color changes all that. You could even have green grass on brown dirt without a single miscolored blade of grass. icon_smile.gif Another notable change is that you could have trees that use all of the greens and browns the level palette has to offer, without being forced to use the "CSet2" feature. (...You have no idea how much of a pain it was working around that limitation while I was ripping Pure trees into the tileset. icon_sweat.gif Cycle through the CSets and you'll see just how often the "CSet2" feature had to be used.)

2. New beta quest rules, etc.

Those of you who paid close attention to the original 2D classics will know that Zelda Classic draws its gameplay features primarily from three sources: the original Legend of Zelda, BS Legend of Zelda, and Link to the Past. Even at this late date, features are still being added (often quest rules) that allow ZC to function more like BS Zelda. One of the most recent, for example, is "burn flags are triggered instantly."

We will probably never see a version of ZC that is capable of rendering an exact copy of BS Zelda, due to the game's reliance on a handful of oddball features. However, whenever the developers add in another BS-originated quest rule, I find myself tempted to make another small BS tileset update. Or at least hoping to see someone implement the rule in a v2.5 quest that uses the New BS tileset...

3. The Subscreen editor

Functionally, the standard ZC subscreen in version 1.92 can handle all of the items that appeared in the original BS Zelda ROM. However, there are still some ripped subscreen graphics from the ROM that have yet to be implemented in a tileset, since they weren't supported.

However, with the subscreen editor, the appearance could be recreated almost exactly. icon_smile.gif There could also be several different versions, to accomodate new items. I dunno...the sky's the limit, practically. Either way, this is one feature that can only really be shared with others via a QST file (and hence, a tileset).

4. The Enemy editor

Also worth noting is that a lot of BS enemies still use incorrect colors in version 1.92. For many of them, the enemy editor is the first time ZC has been capable of displaying them in the correct CSet. icon_thumbsup.gif Most notably, BS blue darknuts have been blue and green for so long that most people don't even realize they're supposed to be blue and purple (as seen in CSet 10). Similarly, BS Gohmas are actually supposed to be displayed in Cset 11 (BS Zelda didn't have Gohma 2s).



....Well, I might be able to think of more if I try, but I've typed enough for now. Time to ask everybody else for their ideas. icon_wink.gif What do YOU think? Can you name some v2.5 features that New BS has truly been aching for?

#2 Alestance

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 01:24 PM

QUOTE(Radien @ Dec 3 2007, 08:06 AM) View Post

Okay, this is an idea I was tossing about. I'm not seriously starting work on them right now, partially because I have other projects to work on right now, but also because 2.5 is still in beta. Basically, I'm wondering what ZC version 2.5 has to offer the BS tileset specifically.

Originally, this was a poll. However, I decided that I don't really want to talk about whether you want to see BS in version 2.5. It's really easy to say "heck yes" when somebody else is doing the work. icon_razz.gif Instead, I'd like to discuss what the upgrade would entail, and see what people think they have been missing.

My first priority with the New BS tileset -- besides making it functional and easy to use -- is to use ZC to accomplish as many things as possible that were seen in the actual BS Zelda emulator ROM. I also like to use new features to do new things with only slight alterations to the old graphics. icon_smile.gif For instance, using BS mountains on layers.
Let me convey a few of my specific ideas:

1. Grassy Mountains

Creating these is problematic in version 1.92. Why? Because of the BS palette. Grasses use three greens, but the CSet with three greens replaces the rich browns with dull greys. icon_unsettled.gif Hence you either need to use layering or part with traditional BS graphics in order to do something else. The "CSet2" feature is useful, too, but it still divides each tile into four distinct parts.

...8-bit color changes all that. You could even have green grass on brown dirt without a single miscolored blade of grass. icon_smile.gif Another notable change is that you could have trees that use all of the greens and browns the level palette has to offer, without being forced to use the "CSet2" feature. (...You have no idea how much of a pain it was working around that limitation while I was ripping Pure trees into the tileset. icon_sweat.gif Cycle through the CSets and you'll see just how often the "CSet2" feature had to be used.)

8 bit color mode can eliminte most of the level c-sets and allow for larger modification to the BS Set!

2. New beta quest rules, etc.

Those of you who paid close attention to the original 2D classics will know that Zelda Classic draws its gameplay features primarily from three sources: the original Legend of Zelda, BS Legend of Zelda, and Link to the Past. Even at this late date, features are still being added (often quest rules) that allow ZC to function more like BS Zelda. One of the most recent, for example, is "burn flags are triggered instantly."

We will probably never see a version of ZC that is capable of rendering an exact copy of BS Zelda, due to the game's reliance on a handful of oddball features. However, whenever the developers add in another BS-originated quest rule, I find myself tempted to make another small BS tileset update. Or at least hoping to see someone implement the rule in a v2.5 quest that uses the New BS tileset...
Its already possible to make a nearly exact clone of BS Zelda, you can already change enemies' c-set at whim in scripting(talkin about the BS Aquamentus, btw) Any oddballs can be curved can be worked around with scripting, obviously

3. The Subscreen editor

Functionally, the standard ZC subscreen in version 1.92 can handle all of the items that appeared in the original BS Zelda ROM. However, there are still some ripped subscreen graphics from the ROM that have yet to be implemented in a tileset, since they weren't supported.

However, with the subscreen editor, the appearance could be recreated almost exactly. icon_smile.gif There could also be several different versions, to accomodate new items. I dunno...the sky's the limit, practically. Either way, this is one feature that can only really be shared with others via a QST file (and hence, a tileset).

Agreed

4. The Enemy editor

Also worth noting is that a lot of BS enemies still use incorrect colors in version 1.92. For many of them, the enemy editor is the first time ZC has been capable of displaying them in the correct CSet. icon_thumbsup.gif Most notably, BS blue darknuts have been blue and green for so long that most people don't even realize they're supposed to be blue and purple (as seen in CSet 10). Similarly, BS Gohmas are actually supposed to be displayed in Cset 11 (BS Zelda didn't have Gohma 2s).

I already knew that Blue darknuts were blue and purple. icon_biggrin.gif

....Well, I might be able to think of more if I try, but I've typed enough for now. Time to ask everybody else for their ideas. icon_wink.gif What do YOU think? Can you name some v2.5 features that New BS has truly been aching for?


This will be a great idea, because it could expand the BS Tileset into something much more customizable. And again a great choice for newcomers!(my coments are bold italic)

Edited by Master_of_Power, 08 December 2007 - 01:26 PM.


#3 Mitchfork

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 03:57 PM

I really can't name anything huge that 2.5 brings to the table for BS. icon_shrug.gif True, there would be a handful of useful details, but BS is pretty much complete as-is, by my estimation.

#4 Nathaniel

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 11:22 PM

This idea has nothing to do with the BS tileset, but it is certainly something to think about for the future of ZC:

While I am all for bugfixes keeping up with added new features, one thing I would love to see is nothing graphically extravagant but can contribute a lot to any quest storyline: An item trading sequence. That is, one item slot for items that are traded until you finally reach the end of the sequence with a usable item, like in Link's Awakening. This would also greatly encourage the creation of many new tiles for our database.

#5 Joe123

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Posted 19 December 2007 - 03:06 AM

That'd trivial to script really, just give Link a few dummy items and check whether he has them at certain points, if he does carry on, if not don't.

I'm thinking of trying a Link's Awakening remake, so if it gets off the ground that'll be a part of it.


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