24 replies to this topic

[Tree]

I've seen alot of great looking screen with this water. Does anyone know where to fine the sprites for Minish cap water that is compatible with Pure remembrance?

[Moo2wo]

The water borders won't rip in without some significant color loss, unless you'd be willing to use 2.5's 8-bit mode. Evile posted the actual water details here a while ago.

One route you could go is to use the already existing LttP water borders and just use the MC details in place of the LttP details. That's what I do.

Edit: You can rip in the borders from Evile's MZC tileset.

Edited by Moo2wo, 13 March 2011 - 11:12 AM.

[Radien]

Y'know, people keep asking for Minish Cap stuff, but why don't you just open up an emulator and try doing it yourself?... Most computers can handle a GBA emulator; it's not a very demanding program. At the very least, if it's difficult or impossible, you'll see what the problems are and where ZC's limitations come in.

However, Moo2wo is probably correct. If Pure Remembrance only has 3 or 4 blues, it might not be capable of handling MC water. My advice: count how many different blues there are, total, in CSets 2, 3, and 4. If you can come up with four different blues AND one white, then it should be possible to rip and recolor MC water into Pure Remembrance.

But don't include colors in CSets 0-1 or 5-11! If you do you may run into problems later, depending on what all you plan on doing with the MC water...

[Tree]

Oh it is. I ripped some out. But I seriously don't know how to animate then. They are just stationary and I don't know how to do it. Oh well. It doesn't really fit with the design I'm going for.

[Radien]

It certainly is hard to keep track of all the frames in Minish Cap, I have to admit that. But I can see how it wouldn't quite look right next to the other stuff in some tilesets.

[Giggidy]

To reuse an existing topic, I'm interested in MC water as well, in the original palette. My custom tileset has 6 shades of blue, and I may be able to gracefully reduce it to 4 as well for the OP.

As an aside, is there a better tool for ripping animated sprites from the GBA? VBA's tile viewer is useless for animations and screenshotting takes forever.

[Sheik]

But I can see how it wouldn't quite look right next to the other stuff in some tilesets.

Meh. It's not like Pure has a certain style. Pure is pretty much all styles put together. It's such a giant sytle clash, I don't think that some MC tiles would seriously hurt it.
I'm not saying Pure is bad, it simply offers a lot of different styles. And since most people simply use all the tiles and don't care wether they clash or not, Pure screens tend to have rather serious style-clash-issues. I don't think that MC water would look anymore out of place than any of the other water tiles Pure comes with (which is LttP-water if I'm not mistaken which looks imo wrong next to GB tiles, but whatever).

Edited by Sheik91, 14 March 2011 - 05:27 AM.

[Radien]

To reuse an existing topic, I'm interested in MC water as well, in the original palette. My custom tileset has 6 shades of blue, and I may be able to gracefully reduce it to 4 as well for the OP.

As an aside, is there a better tool for ripping animated sprites from the GBA? VBA's tile viewer is useless for animations and screenshotting takes forever.

If there is, I don't know it. I consider the tile viewer useless for all constructive purposes, and personally I just screenshot and do the rest in Paintshop.

Yes, it takes awhile. But anybody can do it, which is why I get a little annoyed that so many people ask for MC tiles.

Meh. It's not like Pure has a certain style. Pure is pretty much all styles put together. It's such a giant sytle clash, I don't think that some MC tiles would seriously hurt it.
I'm not saying Pure is bad, it simply offers a lot of different styles. And since most people simply use all the tiles and don't care wether they clash or not, Pure screens tend to have rather serious style-clash-issues. I don't think that MC water would look anymore out of place than any of the other water tiles Pure comes with (which is LttP-water if I'm not mistaken which looks imo wrong next to GB tiles, but whatever).

I see where you're coming from, but there are two things to take into account:

1. While many of the Pure tiles clash with each other, there's still a certain range of different types of tiles within it. For instance, its two main sources are GB Zelda and LTTP. If certain graphics clash with both of these styles, you'll have problems.

2. I know not many people follow this advice, but when you have as much variety as is found in Pure, the secret is to only use SOME of the tiles. Don't use tiles which clash. Just because it's in there, doesn't mean you HAVE to use it. Although I realize most people assume you do.

3. The Pure palettes ARE made for specific purposes. That alone can slam the brakes on many tile-ripping aspirations.

[Tree]

but if someone already has them, they could share them if they want to. I don't really need them anymore anyway.

[Radien]

but if someone already has them, they could share them if they want to. I don't really need them anymore anyway.

But no matter who has them, someone out there had to do the work.

[Giggidy]

Well, "Do it yourself" is not what I would count a helpful contribution to a request thread.

I got sick of waiting around, so I painstakingly ripped the major OW water tiles in MC.



What's missing are:

- Special water borders in Hyrule Castle Town. The ones that border the brick are different from the ones that border the grass.

- The cliff edge tiles for Death Mountain/Veil Falls area.

- One or two area-specific tiles like the fountains in town.

- The special Castor Wilds assets, like the thorny vines and bubbly water.

- The "center" of the larger 4-tile wide waterfalls, which for some reason wasn't with the others. I'll get that later.

The tiles are also "raw". The GBA works with 8x8 tiles, and ZC works with 16x16. To get these to work together correctly I'll need to make 16x16 versions of the various combinations of materials that can appear together in one 2x2 block.

This should be a good enough starting point for anyone who wants to use MC water themselves. Maybe when I get a complete, usable set put together I'll submit it.

[Yapollo]

Y'know, people keep asking for Minish Cap stuff, but why don't you just open up an emulator and try doing it yourself?... Most computers can handle a GBA emulator; it's not a very demanding program. At the very least, if it's difficult or impossible, you'll see what the problems are and where ZC's limitations come in.

The major limitation in converting MC to ZC is the palette limitation. I have a means of ripping graphics directly into ZC, but ZC allows for 16 colors (and really only 15 as palette 0 is the background). A person can rip tiles all day, but the part that takes forever is the palette conversion (and it never really looks the same).

Back to the point on hand, I would recommend looking at the Adventure tileset. If I have free time this weekend (which is highly unlikely as of late), I'll see what I can create.

Edited by Yapollo, 17 March 2011 - 11:26 AM.

[Giggidy]

Because people are lazy, and I don't blame them for it. Why redo work someone else might have already done?

EDIT: My mistake, I saw an incomplete version of Yapollo's post. Though the comment still applies to Radien I think.

Palette limitations aren't that bad once you learn to abuse GraphicsGale.

Edited by Giggidy, 17 March 2011 - 11:32 AM.

[Radien]

The major limitation in converting MC to ZC is the palette limitation. I have a means of ripping graphics directly into ZC, but ZC allows for 16 colors (and really only 15 as palette 0 is the background). A person can rip tiles all day, but the part that takes forever is the palette conversion (and it never really looks the same).

What you're saying, I think, is that some tiles are impossible to incorporate into a tileset. Or at least, there's a limit to how many MC tiles can be used at once. I agree. Some things just aren't possible for MC tiles. But many people don't understand that, and if they learned enough to know how many colors MC tiles use, they'd realize why it's so hard to find ripped MC tiles that work, especially for existing tilesets like Pure.

Because people are lazy, and I don't blame them for it. Why redo work someone else might have already done?

EDIT: My mistake, I saw an incomplete version of Yapollo's post. Though the comment still applies to Radien I think.

If it were a small task, that'd make sense. But working Minish Cap into ZC is a huge puzzle. Making it user-friendly is even more ridiculous. And for what? A pat on the back?

Palette limitations aren't that bad once you learn to abuse GraphicsGale.

And what exactly do you expect Graphics Gale to do? Here's the problem with Minish Cap:

- Each sprite or tile uses a palette with 16 colors. Some of them share palettes. That's good. However...
- Each area loads up to 16 new palettes apiece, each with 16 colors.
- Per area, ZC can only reload 4 out of its 16 palettes (Csets), with 16 colors apiece (15 if you exclude the transparency color).

So if you multiply 16x12, that means that between areas, Minish Cap on the GBA is capable of rotating 192 MORE colors than ZC is capable of rotating. And since I'm counting all of ZC's colors at once, that's assuming you're using 8-bit mode like crazy. The end result is that SOME Minish Cap graphics can be used in SOME tilesets, but among the ones that can, most need VERY heavy recoloring and editing. It's like trying to recolor SNES graphics into Classic, except much more complicated.

And then on top of it all, MOST of the people who request Minish Cap graphics never even come close to finishing their quest projects. For the person who spent hours and hours ripping and editing those graphics, that's not a very good way to thank them.


So my message is this: if you want Minish Cap graphics, most of the people who are skilled enough to provide them are going to say "no." And if you ask for difficult-to-rip tiles and then cancel your project, don't be surprised if people get really annoyed at you.

I know this statement is not helpful, but this forum is called Developer's Exchange, not Instant Gratification.

[Giggidy]

GraphicsGale's great for palette hackery. Get a few tiles you want, load the original palettes, some creative copy and paste to lower the color depth, merge the indices, then rearrange into your favorite tileset layout. You can quickly recolor hundreds of tiles at once that way. I don't know what method you use, but with Gale I wouldn't call the palette work difficult.

Then again I use custom-everything in terms of palettes. If I run into a quality problem, I can quickly do a palette redesign. For people using stock tilesets like Pure or DoR, this is not really much of an option.