18 replies to this topic

[MarinaraSauce]

 

Here's his new analysis on the Wind Waker dungeons if anybody's interested. He brings up a lot of things that I never even noticed playing the game myself.

[Cukeman]

This is cool, especially how it allows you to see how much choice the player has. However, it doesn't really service as a way to judge complexity in every case, as many times it can take a lot of effort to figure out how to manipulate dungeon elements in a simpler design, while in a more complex design it might be much more apparent what Link has to do, even if there are more steps along the way.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't agree with the way he criticized WW for offering new paths that wrap around instead of backtracking. I prefer to explore new areas then trudge back through something I've already completed. Sure it's a problem if what to do is right in front of your nose and obvious, but how is new content worse than winding your way back through a bunch of rooms now empty because you solved them already? What is so fantastic and desirable about that?

Edited by Cukeman, 03 November 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

I prefer backtracking and finding new things to do in old rooms or having to figure out a puzzle that leads to an alternate exit from a previous room (after getting a key/dungeon item). Letting the player take a unique route basically means a linear route and it typically means subtlety won't be featured much along these routes as they tend to be built to be traveled exactly once. I also prefer dungeon design increasing in complexity (not just the number of areas to explore, but actual complexity in how you travel through the dungeon) as you progress from dungeon to dungeon (The Gameboy and Gameboy Colour games nailed this).

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 03 November 2016 - 10:15 AM.

[Cukeman]

I prefer backtracking and finding new things to do in old rooms or having to figure out a puzzle that leads to an alternate exit from a previous room (after getting a key/dungeon item). Letting the player take a unique route basically means a linear route and it typically means subtlety won't be featured much along these routes as they tend to be built to be traveled exactly once. I also prefer dungeon design increasing in complexity (not just the number of areas to explore, but actual complexity in how you travel through the dungeon) as you progress from dungeon to dungeon (The Gameboy and Gameboy Colour games nailed this).

 

 

Well, the problem is dungeons that do have new things to discover in old rooms are ignored by these videos if those new things aren't required to complete the dungeon. Just because bonus stuff is not required, doesn't mean that 100%ing a dungeon is a linear experience.

 

EDIT: Also, Shadow Temple has a theme of going deeper and deeper underground, there is a reason for that linearity.

Edited by Cukeman, 04 November 2016 - 02:47 AM.