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Things everyone should learn in their lifetime


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#16 Moonbread

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 10:32 PM

It's not as hard as you think, honestly.  The problem is that you're viewing history as a bunch of statistics you had to memorize for school to make a good grade and then forget about, when I'm more about it for the cultural aspect of it.  If you go into it with the mindset of dead guys and dates, of course you're going to find it boring, because who wouldn't?  But if you learn about Ethiopia's fight to keep their independence when no other African nation could, or Sun Tzu's Art of War, or Morocco's longstanding treaty with the US and how they were a huge reason we won the Revolutionary War, it'll probably stick with you a lot more!  When I started studying veterinary medicine, I had to study history first- we had to study Rome, Egypt, China, etc. to learn all about the origins of where veterinary practice came from, and it was really interesting to me!  Hell, people get super into stuff like Game of Thrones and are like "I wish real life history were more like this, then I'd be interested," except history has all sorts of stuff like that!  Go read up on the War of the Roses, or read about Genghis Khan!  I mean, you say people should only know how to access it, but what about how much we're obsessed with movies and video games and novels?  People memorize stuff from those all the time!  People recite full episodes of TV shows from memory, or give you a detailed summary of what happens in each of the gajillion Redwall books without skipping a beat, or tell you all about this great novella they found in a random book in Skyrim among the other hundreds of other books they found, or some obscure lore about a sidequest in some RPG!  The only difference here is that history actually happened, and for some reason that ends up being less appealing because..?  Either way, you'd be surprised how easy it is to recall something from your memory when you were really into what you were learning about.  And history basically has anything for anyone, whether you're into war, sports, art, medicine, games, etc.

 

 

As an add on to this would be to learn the point of view on the events in history from the opposing side. It may sound like the same thing as you jut said, but it will really take the rose tint off of your world to see what your country and it's armies&leaders are really capable of.

I would in fact say I basically already implied that, but alright. :P But yeah, there's an amazing political cartoon about this that I wish I could find, but it's basically two sides: one labeled "Noble Kingdom" and the other "Brute Savages", and both sides are drawn exactly identical.



#17 Fabbrizio

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 11:44 PM

History I see as a hit and miss.  I mean sure, it'd be nice to know what, where and when, but unless you're a historian, you probably won't have 1000 random history facts locked away in your quick access memory. History was never my forte, because it's all just memorize and regurgitate, instead of understanding a concept and applying it like math or programming.  If I really needed to know the year Benjamin Franklin did X, I have the sources to check to confirm it.

 

So instead of memorizing history itself, instead the skill to have would be knowing how to access information resources.  You've got a wide array available to you; libraries, encyclopedias, the internet.  You should make yourself familiar with how to USE these tools.

 

And in this day and age, it's pretty much unacceptable to not know how to work a computer, so that's something everyone should know how to do.

 

 

The problem you describe isn't with history itself but with the way it was taught. If your history class was about regurgitating facts, you had a shitty teacher, full stop. The purpose of history is to understand the ideas, motivations, and actions that led us to today. It is very much a cognitive study. Simply knowing the events isn't useful to anyone at all. History becomes useful when you can find trends in historical scenarios and ask yourself if and how it can be applied to the present day. It's about developing new viewpoints about a scenario we have trouble seeing from anything but the perspective in which we've lived through it.

 

It's why "History" classes have slowly been replaced by "Social Studies" classes. The history itself isn't the important part. What you're studying is sociology. It's just sociology of the past, rather than sociology of the present.



#18 thepsynergist

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 01:59 AM

Learn to not be easily offended.



#19 HavoX

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:12 AM

Learn to not be easily offended.

 

already got that covered :slycool:



#20 Chris Miller

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 08:07 PM

Everyone should learn how to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission.



#21 Fabbrizio

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:48 PM

Everyone should learn how to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission.

 

I disagree, and here's why: fuck individual automobiles. They're inefficient, expensive, and an outdated stigma that was already flawed back when it actually represented prosperity. If not for rush hour traffic, I assure you, we would not be a country bursting at the seams with angry people. I don't understand why so many individual people need a giant piece of metal all to themselves in order to get their tiny self to work.

I propose a different skill in substitution - everyone should understand how to ride either a bike or public transportation, though both would be even better. 


Edited by Fabbrizio, 15 March 2015 - 09:50 PM.

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#22 Shane

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:53 PM

Haven't read this thread entirely, buuut...

  • People should learn to not give in to peer pressure during situations they know can be bad and/or harmful.
  • People should learn how to swim.

I don't have much. :(


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#23 peteandwally

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:00 AM

Learn to take care of something, be it animal, vegetable or mineral. Also, build something with your own hands (I suppose that requires learning).


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#24 strike

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 05:40 AM

What's wrong with cars? Not everyone lives in a bustling city. For tons of people, riding bikes or public transportation is utterly impractical.

Also, I think that knowing history and biology are not remotely indispensable to live your life. Or chemistry for that matter. All of them are totally inapplicable to everyday life. People do not have some moral obligation to find out how cells work. What should be taught are the basics of these subjects and how to apply the knowledge to life. So for history, government structures, economics, and common political tactics.

My brother always gets on to me for this, but it's true. These just aren't useful subjects. If people want to know about them, they can research on their own time. I like these subjects but I understand if someone just doesn't care about them.

-Strike

#25 Russ

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 09:33 AM

Also, I think that knowing history and biology are not remotely indispensable to live your life. Or chemistry for that matter. All of them are totally inapplicable to everyday life.

Totally inapplicable? Is that so? I have to argue with you there. Biology (and to a lesser extent chemistry) are invading every aspect of our lives. GMOs are a hot button topic right now, for example, and I know a lot of people who are very passionate on either side of the arguments. So tell me, can you explain to me what a GMO is? If there were to be a measure on the ballot regarding their legality, could you understand what the issue is? I've heard enough people scream at me about the "radiation" involved to know the vast majority of the country can't. And these are the people voting on the future of the technology.

Let's take another example. Let's say some substance is implicated as a potential carcinogen, and there's a move to ban it. If you don't understand what it is or how it works, how are you supposed to make a fair judgement? If you're swayed by simple rhetoric, you might find yourself voting to ban water. Before you yell "That would never happen!", I'd like to direct you to these guys, who got a good number of people to sign a petition to ban it to prove a point.

To move to your other point, I'd hardly say history is not remotely indispensable. There's a saying, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Our political systems of today are a reaction to those of the past, so one can't even begin to understand how are system works (which I'd argue should be a prerequisite to voting) without at least a bit of background knowledge. And given that current politics are inseparably linked to the past (you can drawn a completely chain of cause and effect, like a string of dominoes, from the current issues in the Middle East all the way back to the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand over one hundred years ago), it's impossible to handwave history as just a bunch of dates and dead people.

Or why not an example that combines the two of them. I'm sure you're familiar with the anti-vaccination movement. A whole bunch of people are making outrageous claims that vaccinations cause all kinds of horrible illnesses, and the growing movement towards not vaccinating is leading to a lot of kids catching diseases that are totally preventable. Even a basic knowledge of biology would tell them how wrong they are and how dangerous their movement is. Or perhaps just a bit of history. A reminder of how many people in the past have died to these diseases we have the ability to treat now.

Perhaps you're right, and some people don't care about the subjects. Good for them. I don't particularly care for math myself. That doesn't make math any less critical in my daily life though. The point of an education is to teach people what they need to know, not solely what they want to know.
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#26 Fabbrizio

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:11 AM

Gonna have to agree with Russ 100% on this one. It's easy enough to write certain things off as politics and say "I just don't care, I'm not going to get involved", but at the end of the day, what you're really saying is "I'm willing to let a bunch of uneducated people make important decisions about how humanity should proceed from here, and I'm too apathetic to be one of the educated few."

 

There are lots of things that need to change if the human race is going to survive the century, and if you're just going to call it "unimportant", well, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's not a very informed opinion. Now more than ever, we need a scientifically literate society.

There are a couple hundred people out there who honestly and unironically think the earth is flat. Let that sink in.


Edited by Fabbrizio, 16 March 2015 - 10:13 AM.


#27 strike

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:49 AM

I like your reply.

Break it down now!

1) You said yourself that the populace is totally ignorant. Your educated opinion is vastly outweighed by countless blind votes who are being manipulated by politicians. Your example does not prove the value of education. Leaders are leaders for a reason: they're intelligent. If you are not in a place of power, your opinion will always be meaningless. If you are really knowledgable about something that could change the world, you will ALWAYS be in the minority so your opinion will never matter unless you are on top. And yes, I know what what GMOs are. Scientists are still out on it. The obvious solution is to avoid GMOs until we know more. How much knowledge about biology and chemistry does that solution take?

2) The phrase "If you do not know history, you are doomed to repeat it" is one of the only reasons history is still taught. Again, in this world, understanding history does not matter unless you are control of a government. You assume that a NONaverage Joe's opinion has any effect. The average wins. The average will always be the target for manipulation. The average will only and always be targeted in its ignorance. There will always be an ignorant area. Also, as a side note, real history is way too complicated for almost any one to understand. Simplicities are ultimately meaningless except for manipulation other people.

3) The anti vaccine movement is created from ignorance. As you said, an absurdly small amount of research on the subject will show anyone of these people they are wrong. You have to know almost NOTHING about biology or chemistry. Just literally look it up online.

Basically it boils down to the subjects you picked as important, History, Chemistry, Biology, are not inherently special. EVERY academic area is important or will be important. What everyone should know how to do is think critically. That's why the only three classes that should be mandatory in my opinion are maths, English, and logic. All else comes out of these. Someone does not have to know the intricacies of vaccination to know what side they should be on. People do not have to know quantum theory to avoid an atomic bomb.

Everyone should know the rudimentaries of every academic area but the rudimentaries are all that's necessary. You don't even need to understand the subjects.

-Strike

Edit:

Fabbrizio- Your vote is meaningless. Period. If the majority was educated, we would not be in a democratic republic. Democracies, as they currently are, rely on stupid voters. The very notion of having people in charge reflects stupidity at the very core.

Edit 2: Why do people need to know that the earth is round??!?!?! If they genuinely don't care about the shape of their own planet, that's their own problem. The shape of the planet does not effect them AT ALL in their practical lives. If they don't care about the shape of the earth that does not equate them as stupid!!!!!!

The beautiful thing is, there will always be preservers. SOMEONE (the majority perhaps) is always going to care that the earth is round. There will always be people who only think about things they have been taught and that's all they care about. The revelations of the past, now stale. These things are utterly meaningless for 99% of the population. But they are meaningless because everyone already knows them. An intelligent person doesn't have to care. They only have to focus on the applicable facts.

Edit 3: Smart people will always be there. Unless you do not trust any scientists, you do not have to know anything about history, chemistry, or biology. But! That's only if you want to be part of the system as it is now. If you want to do something utterly revolutionary, you're going to know about these things. But this topic is about things everyone has to know, not the exceptional.

Edited by strike, 16 March 2015 - 11:13 AM.


#28 Fabbrizio

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:45 AM

Your argument has one fundamental flaw - you're confusing scientific literacy for scientific excellence. It's true that we only need a small portion of society to actually be really good at scientific endeavors, but ultimately, if the rest of society has no concept of the application of those endeavors on a more practical scale, those endeavors are squandered. The suggestion here is that everyone should have a basic understanding of science: that everyone should know just enough about science to make informed decisions in their own lives. 


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#29 Russ

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:11 PM

Ooh, I like the nice long reply I'm seeing. I hope you don't mind if I tackle it chunk by chunk.

1) You said yourself that the populace is totally ignorant. Your educated opinion is vastly outweighed by countless blind votes who are being manipulated by politicians. Your example does not prove the value of education. Leaders are leaders for a reason: they're intelligent. If you are not in a place of power, your opinion will always be meaningless. If you are really knowledgable about something that could change the world, you will ALWAYS be in the minority so your opinion will never matter unless you are on top.

Your argument here is basically that education doesn't matter; the smart people will always be in charge. I disagree. A stupid voter base is likely to elect either an incompetent fool or a manipulative liar, neither of which generally make for good leaders. An educated populace will be able to evaluate claims made by politicians and vote accordingly. Like you said earlier, individual vote might not make much of a difference, but if society as a whole is knowledgeable, it will be reflected in society's leaders.

And yes, I know what what GMOs are. Scientists are still out on it. The obvious solution is to avoid GMOs until we know more. How much knowledge about biology and chemistry does that solution take?

Thank you, you just proved my point actually. Scientists aren't "still out" on it. The consensus is that GMOs as a whole are fine, and that whether or not they're helpful or harmful comes down to the individual GMO you create. There's no inherent danger in GMOs as a whole, and thus they ought not be avoided. Coming to a conclusion like that requires at least a basic knowledge of GMOs though; what they are, how they work, etc.

2) The phrase "If you do not know history, you are doomed to repeat it" is one of the only reasons history is still taught. Again, in this world, understanding history does not matter unless you are control of a government. You assume that a NONaverage Joe's opinion has any effect. The average wins. The average will always be the target for manipulation. The average will only and always be targeted in its ignorance. There will always be an ignorant area. Also, as a side note, real history is way too complicated for almost any one to understand. Simplicities are ultimately meaningless except for manipulation other people.

This kinda gets back to what I was saying above. You're right: The average wins. That's why I'm arguing for educating the average Joes out there. If you want the right people in charge, you gotta make sure that the majority of citizens are educated enough that they won't fall for manipulation. If properly taught, history teaches the critical thinking needed to dissect rhetoric as well as the basic knowledge to know where we ought to head based off where we've come from. I'd disagree that history's too complicated for anybody to understand. Perhaps no one person can understand the entirety of human history in completely detail, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to learn, at a fairly complex level, even, the path we've taken to get here.

Basically it boils down to the subjects you picked as important, History, Chemistry, Biology, are not inherently special. EVERY academic area is important or will be important. What everyone should know how to do is think critically. That's why the only three classes that should be mandatory in my opinion are maths, English, and logic. All else comes out of these. Someone does not have to know the intricacies of vaccination to know what side they should be on. People do not have to know quantum theory to avoid an atomic bomb.

We've hit a certain level of agreement here, actually. I agree that critical thinking is, well, critical. However, all logical arguments have to have premises. To come to a conclusion about a topic, say vaccination or GMOs, one needs to have the premises as well as the reason to reach the conclusion, and the classroom's the best place for them to learn those premises. You can say you don't need to know the intricacies of vaccines to know which side to be on, yet I've talked to people who don't know even the very basics of them. Not knowing how they work, they fear them. It's easy to just say "Oh point out the experts, they'll believe them," but the truth is people are inherently afraid of that which they don't understand, and I'd argue that the amount of people in the US who reject topics like biological evolution of climate change is enough to show that the general population won't agree with people just because they're experts.

Smart people will always be there. Unless you do not trust any scientists, you do not have to know anything about history, chemistry, or biology. But! That's only if you want to be part of the system as it is now. If you want to do something utterly revolutionary, you're going to know about these things. But this topic is about things everyone has to know, not the exceptional.

Quoting this here since it ties into what I just said. There IS a certain amount of distrust of scientists in our society. To take an example, although there's scientific consensus on the evolutionary origin of life, 33% of adults in the US claim that life has existed in its present form since the beginning of the world. Since there's this distrust of science, your argument falls apart. At the very least, you need to educate people enough that they'll trust the people who dedicate their whole lives to this stuff, and for that, they need to have at least a basic understanding of these topics.
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#30 Fabbrizio

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 12:21 PM

Just one thing I'd like to add:

 

Thank you, you just proved my point actually. Scientists aren't "still out" on it. The consensus is that GMOs as a whole are fine, and that whether or not they're helpful or harmful comes down to the individual GMO you create. There's no inherent danger in GMOs as a whole, and thus they ought not be avoided. Coming to a conclusion like that requires at least a basic knowledge of GMOs though; what they are, how they work, etc.

 

Not only is there no research showing that GMOs are harmful, but in fact, we have every reason to suspect that they could be the key to solving world hunger (genetic engineering can allow crops to grow in more extreme climates and produce more food per individual crop). Empirical evidence trumps hypothetical evidence any day.




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