23 replies to this topic

[Koh]

     So I was conversing with my sister on our way home from the university campus yesterday, and she mentioned that she encountered another homeless person outside of 7-Eleven again.  He was asking for money, which she assumed he would probably use to get food, since he's outside a convenience store, and had offered to go inside and buy him some food, but he got all worked up and said  "I don't want your fucking food!" and my sister was like "Well, excuse me then," proceeding to get her coffee as per routine.  After she told me about that, she was saying he probably wanted alcohol, which she's seen a few homeless people buy after receiving money.

 

     She said she would rather buy the food tor them as she goes into the store, since she'd rather not let the money which is intended to help someone go to waste, which I can understand, but is this a wrong mindset to have?  What if they aren't hungry in the first place, and are just trying to raise money?  We don't know the end goal, so helping homeless people is always a gamble, but should we always assume they're hungry homeless people?  Should we always assume they're some alcoholic who lost everything?  Has anyone encountered this problem before?

Edited by Koh, 14 November 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Shane]

Well, it depends. He could be vegetarian, have allergies or even wanted just a simple drink (not alcohol). You don't force what you want to buy for people.

 

tl;dr You ask first, not force.

[LinktheMaster]

Well, if you think about it, giving food directly to homeless people isn't really necessary (in a lot of places).  Most towns and cities will have some sort of shelter where they give out food to the homeless.  So if your intentions are to help feed the homeless, it would be best to donate to those places.

 

If he's begging for something, he probably wants money.  Now, he may have wanted money for alcohol.  Sadly, this is the case with some homeless people.  But he very well may have been trying to get money to save up for new clothes to try to interview at a place to work.  Or maybe trying to save up for other reasons.  You really can't say.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I don't give money to beggars for that very reason: they're gonna spend it on drugs. There's also one other very important factor, and it is this: I don't have a lot of money, but I'm working for them. These guys are sitting on their ass on the asphalt, asking people to give them their money that they have worked for. Why the fuck should I give you money?! I've been in need of money countless times, but strangers doesn't give me theirs either way.

 

I guess you could say I'm being egoistic about this, and that's probably true. But like I said, I actually work for my money. The only reason I've got a job is to make sure I have money. Not so that I can pay hobos. Besides, this is Norway, so it's not like they couldn't just walk into a government office and get free money and an apartment that way - something I, a working citizen, could never dream of. So yeah, it's not like they're totally fucked, most of them just don't want the help. Okay, fine, if you won't accept the government's money, you won't get mine either.

 

Their situation in places like the US is probably very different to the ones they're in here though. There really is countless things they could do here to get a roof over your head, money for food and everything they'd need. They just don't. I don't know why, maybe it's more lucrative to beg. I've heard they can get about 80 bucks a day on average.

[Gouanaco]

Well it depends on your perspective and belief.

 

He is asking for money, and its upto you whether you give him some or not, and it also depends on if you care about what he is going to spend it on.

He is asking for money, not money to buy beer or food just money. So you may give him money in the thought that he will spend it on something. But that something doesn't have to be known unless you care.

 

So it all comes down to what you think, and not about what the guy is asking.

 

So if he asks for money then its upto you to decided weather you give it to him or not regardless of what he would spend it on. And you have to put varibles into your though such as, Giving someone no money going to help there driking problem? and What if i was in his shoes.

 

I understand that he was quite mean to reject food. But he might be all good on food and might need clothes or money for a bus ticket. But it all depends on the money givers point of view.

 

So... really, giving him money is just the same as not giving him money in the sense that both points of view could be correct depending on how you see those views.

[Magi_Hero]

Half of the people that have ever asked me for money show extreme tell-tale signs of drug abuse. A terrible sight indeed to see this, though.

[Aevin]

It's true that drug and alcohol abuse is higher among the homeless. However, it's not always a clear cut choice between "he's truly hungry and needs food" and "he just wants money for drugs." As LtM pointed out, there are expenses associated with being homeless. Just because you don't have a house doesn't mean you don't need money for things other than food. Even if someone is only looking for a meal, money provides a way for them to decide what they eat and develop a store for later, whereas giving them food at that very moment only solves the immediate problem -- or no problem at all if they've recently eaten.

 

While I certainly think a reaction as violent as this one is unwarranted, it seems common sense to ask the person whether an immediate meal would be helpful.

 

Here is an interesting article that covers some common misconceptions about the homeless. (It's Cracked.com, so it has a nice comedic edge to it, too.)

 

Incidentally, I find the "he's just not working hard like I am" opinion absolutely detestable.

[kurt91]

Funny, I was going to link to that same article...

 

Anyways, I think that the outburst was a bit of a warning sign on what your money would have gone towards. Personally, if I were in your place, I would have been much more likely if the person had civilly specified that he needed the money for <insert reason here>, and that the food wasn't necessary. An outburst like that is pretty likely to drive somebody away, even if they were more than willing to provide a helping hand.

[KingPridenia]

Well, just going to say up front my opinion is going to be a bit harsh, and if I end up offending anyone, I would like to apologize in advance. Anyway, I can't stand when someone begs me for money or whatever and that guy should have considered himself lucky your sister even bothered to get him anything. I personally would have acted like he wasn't there. It is probably my easiest to hit berserk button. Begging to me is one of the most self-degrading things a person can do, short of a few other things I'd rather not discuss here. I assume a majority of beggars are simply trying to get a few bucks off me so they can continue living their "champagne taste on a beer budget" lifestyle and have so little self-respect they DEPEND on some random guy or gal to support their problems. There are just too many people that fit the stereotype for me to even consider one MIGHT be honestly down on their luck. And a legitimate person wouldn't come up with some bogus cliche sob story either.

 

Even if you are poor, homeless, whatever, there are plenty of resources you have available:

-Homeless shelters

-Temp agencies for getting employment

-Food bank

-Potentially family

 

Honestly, if you can't make the effort to better your life into a reasonable quality of life, I can't make an effort to pity you. Once again, I apologize for my cold sounding post, but I have ZERO TOLERANCE for beggars.

[Fabbrizio]

Well, just going to say up front my opinion is going to be a bit harsh, and if I end up offending anyone, I would like to apologize in advance. Anyway, I can't stand when someone begs me for money or whatever and that guy should have considered himself lucky your sister even bothered to get him anything. I personally would have acted like he wasn't there. It is probably my easiest to hit berserk button. Begging to me is one of the most self-degrading things a person can do, short of a few other things I'd rather not discuss here. I assume a majority of beggars are simply trying to get a few bucks off me so they can continue living their "champagne taste on a beer budget" lifestyle and have so little self-respect they DEPEND on some random guy or gal to support their problems. There are just too many people that fit the stereotype for me to even consider one MIGHT be honestly down on their luck. And a legitimate person wouldn't come up with some bogus cliche sob story either.

 

Even if you are poor, homeless, whatever, there are plenty of resources you have available:

-Homeless shelters

-Temp agencies for getting employment

-Food bank

-Potentially family

 

Honestly, if you can't make the effort to better your life into a reasonable quality of life, I can't make an effort to pity you. Once again, I apologize for my cold sounding post, but I have ZERO TOLERANCE for beggars.

 

You're right, that is harsh, offensive, and on top of it all, proof that you've never actually had to struggle to make ends meet. Homeless shelters and being employed are pretty much mutually exclusive, since most homeless shelters are filled at an hour that you kind of need free in order to be of any value at all to an employer. 

So maybe it's my turn to be a little harsh. Maybe, just for an experiment, you should quit your job, let a few rent/mortgage/whatever payments slide until you've successfully been evicted, and then see how easy it is to get a job and get back into your cushy place of living. Ten bucks says you'll wind up begging for change. But that's not a bet I would take if I were you.

 

Then again, my experiences with homelessness have been much different from yours, I suspect. I work in food service. Starving people living on the streets come in on a semi-regular basis asking me if I can spare any food. I gladly put a half-sandwich or solo pizza on my tab for them, because these guys need it. I've been there. I've been in a house with no food in it because the paycheck hasn't cleared yet. And that was with the house. I've still had someplace to live all my life. I can't imagine what it's like for these guys. So fuck yes, I'm glad to hand food to someone who is starving and homeless and has had people like you persistently not giving a shit about him for several years. I don't care if you think they're lazy. I don't care if you think they're "takers". I don't care what you think of them, period. If they starve to death, I'm not having that on my conscience. But I'm eager to see how that knowledge weighs on yours.

I remember vividly the first guy who came in begging for food. He was a native american man in his late 60s, early 70s. Dark, knotted hair. Withered to the bone. Spoke with a rasp. Not a smoke rasp. His throat was just dry, and he didn't have terribly much energy. It was mid-february, very cold out. He spoke to me kindly, respectfully, politely when asking if I could spare any food. I poured him a glass of coca-cola and brought him out a solo pepperoni pizza, traditional crust. I'll never forget his gratitude. That's not the sort of thing you can ever forget.

 

It's not that beggars can't be choosers. It's that most beggars can't AFFORD to be choosers. A beggar will take what they can get because they NEED whatever they can get. But that's not an open invitation to be completely thoughtless and disregard their preferences. I want to give someone not only what will help them the most, but what they will enjoy the most. What they will be the most glad they were given. Because in the end, I'm not giving them free food. I'm selling them food, which they're paying for in good vibes. Vibes which enjoy thoroughly, cultivate, remember fondly, and build upon.

Edited by Fabbrizio, 18 November 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[TheLegend_njf]

[KingPridenia]

@NewJourneysFire: Nice picture

 

I would like to sincerely apologize for my daft post from earlier in the thread. I never realized how hostile I was and I really could have done a much better job posting my opinion. I would like to apologize to anyone I offended and have a second chance to explain myself.

 

Beggars can't be choosers, I agree with that. I don't give stuff to beggars because I believe that of all the people that beg, there really aren't a large enough number of people that actually NEED the money. I mean I could see giving $20 to someone who's has a family to feed and if he doesn't get the money, they end up going hungry or in the worst case scenario, starve to death. That's one thing. But I don't feel too many beggars fit this category of being genuinely down on their luck, unable to find a job, in financial trouble, etc. There are enough people that don't want to work that cloud my judgment and sadly make me lump all beggars into that one negative stereotype of being someone only doing it so he can buy drugs or alcohol, regardless of whether or not the cause is legitimate.

 

There, hopefully that is a far less hostile way of stating my opinion. I really don't want to get in trouble for my first post. I did make a mistake of being daft and using sweeping generalizations, and I own up to it.

[TheLegend_njf]

He's new, take it easy on him. He didn't know.

Direct your hatred where it belongs, towards The Temple of Cole. Eppy is doing another stream tonight. Lol

[Fabbrizio]

It sounds like the word you actually want is panhandler. And panhandlers are not relevant to the topic at hand, since Koh's thesis question suggested the subject truly did need what they were begging for.

[Omega]

I remember one time I grabbed a burrito from the store and a guy was trying to buy it off me for a dollar outside. I used foodstamps and he was like "come on man, it's cash!"

 

Didn't do it though, maybe I should have gave it to him for free.