59 replies to this topic

[Evan20000]

I'm in the process of making the secret superboss fight for this quest. However, the reason I'm making this thread is to gather feedback from people who tend to like easier quests or lower difficulty settings. Do these sort of optional bosses appeal to you at all? I'm mostly trying to figure out if it's worth the effort giving the boss slightly different behavior for lower difficulties, but this would require a lot of coding so if the interest isn't there, I'm not going to bother.

EDIT: I want input from everyone. I didn't mean to imply I was just looking for certain people's.

[Deedee]

Nah, keep it the same for all difficulties. Maybe give the hardest difficulty an extra phase or some slightly more sadistic attacks.

[Evan20000]

There's probably not going to be hard-mode exclusive content either, just fyi.

[Aevin]

I'd think that as long as stuff like HP level and damage it dishes out were adjusted, it wouldn't need real changes to attack patterns. As a superboss, even players on easier modes would expect it to be a real challenge, and as long as its stats were weighted to be in line with the rest of the mode, I don't see an issue.

[C-Dawg]

The final boss should be the hardest boss.  After all, he or she's supposed to be the big-bad thing that is bent on destroying your way of life, right?  Why would some random other creature lurking around be stronger than he or she?

 

Also, if the player doesn't start pulling their hair out on the final boss, it's not hard enough.  Bend em over, I say. It's a badge of honor that MeleeWizard (bless his heart) gave up trying to fight the last boss of your game.

Edited by C-Dawg, 22 February 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[Deedee]

I don't think that's really applicable, nor completely correct, C-Dawg. The big bad isn't necessarily the Big, Evil Overlord TM. The big bad is the instigator of the story, the main villain, the person who is challenging your way of living and the one who makes the plot run. Does that mean that if you go out of your way to fight your local godlike abomination who doesn't have as big of an impact on your story, that they will be easier than your standard Big Bad crime lord?

 

EDIT: Also, yes, the final bosses of this quest are hard as balls. Backing up what Evan said. Also, Sweet Ninja on my part.

Edited by Dimentio, 22 February 2016 - 06:20 PM.

[Evan20000]

(As an aside, MeleeWizard gave up on the last superboss.)

From a story perspective, it sure doesn't make sense, but it's a solidly sound gameplay decision imo to have the absolute toughest enemy be completely optional with some sweet reward if you beat it. People who don't like the frustration don't have to do it, and it sits there inviting thrill-seekers to come get their jimmies rustled.

That's not to say the final bosses of this quest are pushovers; I think my testers can back me up on that one.

[C-Dawg]

Oh, the whole question is just a matter of personal preference, no doubt.  There's not a right or wrong answer.

 

I think the best reward you can give a player is winning the game.  No, little Johnny, you can't just easymode your way through the game to see the end.  If you want to see what happens in the plot, put on your big boy pants and earn it.  

 

Of course, the other way to do this is to have multiple ways through the game.  Undertale does this, for example, but it does so in a way where the different paths through the game are not really all that different in terms of difficulty.  At least, until the very end.  But I could forsee (more than foresee) a game where the way in which you choose to play it can make a DRAMATIC difference in how hard things get.  So, maybe that's a way to marry the idea of a "superboss" with a game whose challenge is in completing the ultimate objective, not wandering off to kill THE SPACE GOD HOBO.

[Evan20000]

Okay, I almost snorted water at "SPACE GOD HOBO".

EDIT: Most of what you've said actually already applies to the game depending on the ending path you take.

[C-Dawg]

Then you're making an excellent game

[Mani Kanina]

As someone on this site who actually prefer reasonably difficult quests, yes, I definitively do think you should take the time. If it's a super boss and it's balanced for the harder difficulty levels then it's attack patters are probably way too insane for lower difficulties. If you lower the damage and junk, all that is going to happen is that the players playing on a lower level are going to tank the insane attack patterns instead of actually avoiding them. (Because they appear unreasonable).

[Evan20000]

To clarify, the damage reduction is still happening anyway because that's easy to code. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Mani Kanina]

I know, I never said a damage reduction wasn't a good idea, just that only having that would be a bad idea.

On an actual related note, I did a write-up on difficulty levels in quests earlier today, you might find that interesting.

[TheLegend_njf]

I guess the point Lunaria is trying to make is that simply relying on damage reduction just may be a lazy approach in making a super boss easier. It's clearly suited for challenge gamers, but artificially nerfed for more casual gamers in a not so appealing way.

 

The result then is a boss that still doesn't take a person's lower reaction time or play style or even interests at all into account, but the exact same boss made for people like you and me but forcing lowered stats. 

 

I hope that makes sense. 

 

Now granted, considering you said it would take a lot more work than is necessary. I'd almost simply say to just not add the boss in the easier difficulty setting at all. 

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 22 February 2016 - 07:38 PM.

[Deedee]

Now granted, considering you said it would take a lot more work than is necessary. I'd almost simply say to just not add the boss in the easier difficulty setting at all. 

 

Nah, just make it harder to unlock in easy difficulties. If you play easy, then you should be at least be blocked with unnerfed Blighted Abyss so that if you want to fight this boss really bad, you have to be good. Have the boss ignore easier difficulties, like Stan (heh, Stan...), or block the player with something they'd expect in Hero Mode or harder.