237 replies to this topic

[Anthus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a female character sprite sheet, since there is an underwhelming amount of heroines in ZC. I think it's a good idea (for a lot of sets).

 

I was also thinking of arranging tile/ combo sheets for the the dungeon walls in dungeon carving mode. If anyone else has done this let me know, otherwise, would you want them to maybe add to the set?

[Shane]

I'm sorry, I had to. Now I'm REALLY sorry!

 

Cool tileset, a lot I need to comment on (such as the stairs, and a few other things, most notably the tile that looks like a literal pile of shit... lolwat.) but I'm tired, so I'll cover it later on.

Edited by Charizard, 22 May 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[DragonDePlatino]

I'm sorry, I had to. Now I'm REALLY sorry!

 

Cool tileset, a lot I need to comment on (such as the stairs, and a few other things, most notably the tile that looks like a literal pile of shit... lolwat.) but I'm tired, so I'll cover it later on.

 

Well...for the first quest I've ever played using my tileset, it was certainly a surreal experience. And ingenious usage of ZC 2.5 features there! I really feel this quest will set the standard for what ZC 2.5 is capable of. 

 

But hmm...there's a lot of weirdness going on in the palettes...let me go back to the drawing board and see if I can arrange something with more compatible colors such as red with red, blue with blue...

 

Does anyone here have a Classic (non-joke) 2.5 quest I can test my palette conversions on?

[Shane]

Why not remake Z1?

[strike]

I'm guessing because Zelda 1 was made in an older build where Classic was arranged differently so DragonDePlatino would have to make it from scratch.

-Strike

[Shane]

Hm... Right, I forgot Z1 didn't use ZQ's default tileset.

[Moosh]

http://i742.photobuc...zpscf35c578.png

 

Started working on a 5x5 screen test map to experiment with the set. Who knows if a small quest may come out of it. Currently my two big concerns are that the default overworld CSet is CSet 6 which is really weird and also that you can't place trees or anything on the edges of the mountains. Also I agree with Charizard about the stair tiles. I'm really not a fan.

[strike]

Moosh, that looks so good! :3

-Strike

[DragonDePlatino]

I'm guessing because Zelda 1 was made in an older build where Classic was arranged differently so DragonDePlatino would have to make it from scratch.

-Strike

 
And that's exactly it! I have the unpassworded versions of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th but unfortunately, they use a very old tile setup (v1.92?) that would take a lot of time to convert from v2.5. I originally planned to make a 3-dungeon miniquest with Koten, but since ZQuest crashes on me every time I click Screen -> Item, that really won't be an option. And with Koten Basic's combo tables almost exactly like the default, people should already know how to use them anyways.
 

http://i742.photobuc...zpscf35c578.png
 
Started working on a 5x5 screen test map to experiment with the set. Who knows if a small quest may come out of it. Currently my two big concerns are that the default overworld CSet is CSet 6 which is really weird and also that you can't place trees or anything on the edges of the mountains. Also I agree with Charizard about the stair tiles. I'm really not a fan.

 
Hey, Moosh! That's pretty tubular! Really, an awesome map that's really giving off some nice Willow vibes. It's great to see that the cliff tiles work well across screens, but I can completely understand your issues with the cliffs. They've gone through several different iterations and it's with this next update I feel they've finally gotten to where I want them. But sadly, the new cliff tiles would completely break this map so I suggest you don't switch over to them if you'd like to keep your map.
 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, it's been six days and after a lot of refinement, I'm going to be releasing Koten Basic Beta v1.1. But don't get excited. This new beta isn't very different and only contains some small tile changes and new overworld cliffs. As I've been working on Koten Advanced, I've realized there are a few tiles I could have drawn a bit more cleanly, so I've been pasting tiles over from Koten Advanced to Basic. But soon, I'll feel I can release Koten Basic to the database after I get one last thing out of the way...
 
Firstly, what's the problem with using Cset06 as an overworld Cset? I know I've already gone over this, but I'd like to settle once and for all why I should change it just because it's different. If I changed it so that overworld tiles are only compatible with Csets 02, 03, 04 and 09, that would mean that suddenly you have 5 less Csets to work with. And as far as I know, it's perfectly fine using those sprite palettes as tile palettes as long as you've resolved things such as Link's ring palettes, which I have. And you can still use 02, 03, 04 and 09 if you want a changing overworld palette. Just copy Csets 06, 07 and 08 to 02, 03 and 04 and you're done. No problems.
 
Secondly, I've changed the perspective overworld cliff tiles. For the last few hours I've struggled with making something simple yet Classic-compatible and I feel I've finally reached something that balances simplicity with usability.  I know people will probably hate them, but stop nitpicking over something so tiny and just rip something from a game like Ys 3 or Willow. Just because you don't like Koten's tiles that doesn't stop you from just adding your own. 
 
And on a final note, here's the Koten Basic Beta v1.1 changelist for whom it may concern:
 

Spoiler

Page 40 - Swapped ground tiles.
Page 44 - Caves, overworld cliffs.
Page 46 - Melty tree
Page 47 - Unactivated armos, BS grave, stairs, hammer posts, sideways docks.
Page 53 - Statues
Page 56 - Spikes
Page 58 - Mirrors

Edited by DragonDePlatino, 23 May 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Demonlink]

 I originally planned to make a 3-dungeon miniquest with Koten, but since ZQuest crashes on me every time I click Screen -> Item, that really won't be an option.

You're using Windows 8 right? If that's the case, use 2.50.1 RC2, it solves this problem in Windows 8. 

 

Firstly, what's the problem with using Cset06 as an overworld Cset? I know I've already gone over this, but I'd like to settle once and for all why I should change it just because it's different. If I changed it so that overworld tiles are only compatible with Csets 02, 03, 04 and 09, that would mean that suddenly you have 5 less Csets to work with. And as far as I know, it's perfectly fine using those sprite palettes as tile palettes as long as you've resolved things such as Link's ring palettes, which I have. And you can still use 02, 03, 04 and 09 if you want a changing overworld palette. Just copy Csets 06, 07 and 08 to 02, 03 and 04 and you're done. No problems.

I believe most people complain because Cset6 is Link's color and that Cset looks more "overworldy" than the others. Not that I complain

 

Secondly, I've changed the perspective overworld cliff tiles. For the last few hours I've struggled with making something simple yet Classic-compatible and I feel I've finally reached something that balances simplicity with usability.  I know people will probably hate them, but stop nitpicking over something so tiny and just rip something from a game like Ys 3 or Willow. Just because you don't like Koten's tiles that doesn't stop you from just adding your own. 

As for this last point, I strongly suggest to just listen to constructive criticism some give you. Either way, it's your tileset and you can even put whatever you want in there, no questions

 

For your progress, I hope Koten Advanced will be just as good as DoR. Like always, I expect great work

[Mero]

If ZQuest is rashing on you let saffith know.

[RetraRoyale]

 

Firstly, what's the problem with using Cset06 as an overworld Cset? I know I've already gone over this, but I'd like to settle once and for all why I should change it just because it's different. 

 

 

The problem is that CSet6 is not a level CSet. It doesn't have the semantics of a level CSet. When someone edits their level palettes, they have to anticipate the behavior of CSet 6 (And every one of link's rings) to build their level palette. Also, anyone who wants to edit the ring colors has to know that they are editing level colors.

 

 

If I changed it so that overworld tiles are only compatible with Csets 02, 03, 04 and 09, that would mean that suddenly you have 5 less Csets to work with. 

 

There's nothing "sudden" about that. Every other quest only uses 4 CSets because that is how many you get in a level palette. Instead, you are asking quest designers to figure out why editing ring palettes are changing their levels, and why editing level palettes doesn't edit the colors of tiles in the levels. It grossly violates the expectations inherent in using ZC's palette system.

 

 

And as far as I know, it's perfectly fine using those sprite palettes as tile palettes as long as you've resolved things such as Link's ring palettes, which I have. And you can still use 02, 03, 04 and 09 if you want a changing overworld palette. Just copy Csets 06, 07 and 08 to 02, 03 and 04 and you're done. No problems.

 

No, you'd have to copy every single tile you use as well. And if you're asking quest designers to do that, then you're just wasting their time, since the palette designer should have anticipated that problem in the first place. Level palettes are for levels, and CSet 6 is for ring palettes. Anything else is a tedious and error-prone kludge, and it's going to frustrate people and be inherently inflexible. CSet 7 & 8 are constants, and thus they are useless for varied level coloring.

Edited by RetraRoyale, 24 May 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[DragonDePlatino]

There's nothing "sudden" about that. Every other quest only uses 4 CSets because that is how many you get in a level palette. Instead, you are asking quest designers to figure out why editing ring palettes are changing their levels, and why editing level palettes doesn't edit the colors of tiles in the levels. It grossly violates the expectations inherent in using ZC's palette system.

Link's changing ring palette will never interfere with tiles. Try it.
 

No, you'd have to copy every single tile you use as well. And if you're asking quest designers to do that, then you're just wasting their time, since the palette designer should have anticipated that problem in the first place. Level palettes are for levels, and CSet 6 is for ring palettes. Anything else is a tedious and error-prone kludge, and it's going to frustrate people and be inherently inflexible. CSet 7 & 8 are constants, and thus they are useless for varied level coloring.

No, that's not a problem. Every Koten tile works with every Cset so far. And again, having six extra unchanging palettes is better than no extra unchanging palettes.

[anikom15]

I have to second everything RetraRoyale said, esp. considering four csets should be more than enough for a 3-color tileset.

Another thing is people sometimes want to modify or use a different Link set with more colors.

Edited by anikom15, 24 May 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[DragonDePlatino]

I have to second everything RetraRoyale said, esp. considering four csets should be more than enough for a 3-color tileset.

Another thing is people sometimes want to modify or use a different Link set with more colors.

Just add more colors to Cset06. You could use up to 12 colors for Link, which is more than plenty considering all the other sprites use 3 (NES restrictions).