832 replies to this topic

[LinktheMaster]

When I mentioned the lazy rehash, I was referring to the original Gold & Silver, where they literally just shoved you in the Kanto with basically 0 effort put into it. They really could have done some amazing stuff with it, but they didn't at all. None of the places were changed much (ignoring Cinnabar island), it pretty much followed the same path as the original R/B/Y, and it had no story elements to it like the first half. Honestly, the sheer amount of laziness put into Kanto felt very jarring. The first half of the game had lots of energy put into it. There was story (as much as any other Pokemon game), there were events, there were times when you'd have to do stuff to get into gyms, etc. The second half had none of that. It's just... bad when a game has such a huge shift in gameplay.

It's sort of like going underneath the ocean the first time in WW in the amount of disappointment caused. When I found out I could go back to Kanto in the original G/S, I was ecstatic. So many things could change! I was only around halfway through the game?! That's awesome! But no. Kanto blew by because of the little attention put into it, and it was a huge let down.

Again, I'll stress that this is the original Gold/Silver, though. HG/SS might have improved on that a lot. And I will say that there are some things that I do miss (things like the bug catching contest and the Safari Zone were really cool), but I just felt so betrayed by my hopes from the original Gold/Silver, so I can't see it in the amazing light most people put it in.

[Koh]

Allow me to elaborate. While I agree Kanto was a bit void of story, and the trainers (and Gym Leaders) were all underpowerd, just the fact that you COULD go to another region and earn 8 more badges already says more than any other non-Johto based Pokemon games out there. Not only that, but you get to battle the protagonist you played as 3 years before. That means these games are not only the only games to have more than one region, but also the only games to PHYSICALLY show what happened to the last character we played as. In all the other games, (except the Johto protagonists, they were never mentioned at all) they were just mentioned, but we never found out what ACTUALLY happened to them; did they go to another region, are they still traveling, or what? Not only this, but Red was also, and still is, the highest leveled battle-able trainer of all time. In addition, the Johto games were the most innovative, and introduced the most staples to the series, such as Day/Night, Breeding, Animated Pokemon (Crystal), Battle Frontier (Tower, but Crystal), Communication tools, and wayyyy more.

Edited by Koh, 13 January 2013 - 10:54 PM.

[Orithan]

I didn't like Johto at at all. I only liked the day/night system when it came to the Gen IV games because I felt it was too erratic in G/S/C, I never played far enough in Gold to experience the roaming legendaries, I never discovered that you could breed pokemon (I did get the Togepi egg, but I never discovered that I could breed pokemon), I found most of Johto through Azelea(?) to Goldenrod and the fourth gym town to the sixth (can't remember their names) uninteresting and I certainly never discovered that you could travel back to Kanto (which, after playing through Heart Gold, I agree with LTM with in being lazily shoehorned into the game).
Even the pokemon didn't help much. Half of the new pokemon didn't appeal to me much and some were downright infuriating to fight during the course of the main game (ie. Whitney's Miltank). The only redeeming factors I got from G/S/C was the Eevee evolutions and the mascot legendaries (I think I stopped after catching Oh-Ho).

Kanto wasn't that much better in that regard, especially after I played Leaf Green. In my opinion, it only started to be great when Gen IV came around, and this is coming from someone whose entry was in Yellow Version.

[Koh]

I didn't like Johto at at all. I only liked the day/night system when it came to the Gen IV games because I felt it was too erratic in G/S/C, I never played far enough in Gold to experience the roaming legendaries, I never discovered that you could breed pokemon (I did get the Togepi egg, but I never discovered that I could breed pokemon), I found most of Johto through Azelea(?) to Goldenrod and the fourth gym town to the sixth (can't remember their names) uninteresting and I certainly never discovered that you could travel back to Kanto (which, after playing through Heart Gold, I agree with LTM with in being lazily shoehorned into the game).
Even the pokemon didn't help much. Half of the new pokemon didn't appeal to me much and some were downright infuriating to fight during the course of the main game (ie. Whitney's Miltank). The only redeeming factors I got from G/S/C was the Eevee evolutions and the mascot legendaries (I think I stopped after catching Oh-Ho).

Kanto wasn't that much better in that regard, especially after I played Leaf Green. In my opinion, it only started to be great when Gen IV came around, and this is coming from someone whose entry was in Yellow Version.

But this is where opinions versus facts come in. You don't like the Johto games, which is fine, but that doesn't change the fact that they introduced the most features and staples to the series, which are still here to this day, and had the most playable content of all the games (Remakes extended this even further). I don't think they'll ever be topped in terms of innovation; they were MAJOR steps up from the first games. And them from then on out, everything just felt recycled and reused, except maybe Abilities, which game in Gen 3. In fact, Gen 3 was a major step DOWN from Crystal, since they cropped so much. Gen IV's Diamond/Pearl/Platinum/HeartGold/SoulSilver is when they Uturned the series back.

Edited by Koh, 14 January 2013 - 06:23 AM.

[Moonbread]

https://i.chzbgr.com...3568/h0EC1A8AE/

Done.

[Koh]

https://i.chzbgr.com...3568/h0EC1A8AE/

Done.

Actually, it'd be pretty cool to see a company make new games for an older system like that. At least they're acknowledging that the systems existed at some point, instead of pretending like it never happened.

[Russ]

Yeah, cuz, ya know, the GB Sounds item, and heck, HG/SS in general, totally pretended that the Gameboy never happened.

[The Satellite]

GB Sounds was awesome, even if some of the tracks weren't perfect (who the hell knows why not). I kinda want them to put that option in X/Y, just to 8-bitize the songs even if they were never 8-bit in the past. Doubt it, but it would be fun if that happened.

[Shane]

Actually, it'd be pretty cool to see a company make new games for an older system like that.

But couldn't they just build "game boy color" styled games on the modern consoles easily?

I agree with TS about the GB sounds and tracks. That'd be cool.

[Koh]

Yeah, cuz, ya know, the GB Sounds item, and heck, HG/SS in general, totally pretended that the Gameboy never happened.

I never said Pokemon or Game Freak was guilty of this. Hasty conclusions, my friend, beware .

But couldn't they just build "game boy color" styled games on the modern consoles easily?

I agree with TS about the GB sounds and tracks. That'd be cool.

That isn't quite the same. With your proposal there, they'd attempt to emulate the graphics and whatnot, but the system's specs are way higher than that of the original Game Boy Color, especially Processor power and Memory. Faking it is not the same as using the real deal. Hence we have the split against emulators. I still use emulators, because getting your hands on these older consoles is way more trouble than it's worth, but I would still play my own system if it still functioned properly.

And you know it wouldn't be 100% accurate anyway, as with GB Sounds on the DS. A lot of the tunes were askew with the sounds. They still sounded nice, but they weren't exactly like the originals, hence another problem. So you can give them this look if they tried it again on the 3DS , or this one .

Edited by Koh, 23 January 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[The Satellite]

That isn't quite the same. With your proposal there, they'd attempt to emulate the graphics and whatnot, but the system's specs are way higher than that of the original Game Boy Color, especially Processor power and Memory. Faking it is not the same as using the real deal. Hence we have the split against emulators. I still use emulators, because getting your hands on these older consoles is way more trouble than it's worth, but I would still play my own system if it still functioned properly.

Wouldn't really be much different than Capcom making Megaman 9 and 10 for WiiWare.

[Shane]

That isn't quite the same. With your proposal there, they'd attempt to emulate the graphics and whatnot, but the system's specs are way higher than that of the original Game Boy Color, especially Processor power and Memory. Faking it is not the same as using the real deal. Hence we have the split against emulators. I still use emulators, because getting your hands on these older consoles is way more trouble than it's worth, but I would still play my own system if it still functioned properly.

But some people like myself don't have a Game Boy and even with that it's hard to find something old like the Game Boy as opposed to finding a 3DS. ._. Why really go through the trouble of getting the "real deal" when you can make make the "real deal" on a modern console that is still in stores?

Edited by Shane, 23 January 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[Koh]

But some people like myself don't have a Game Boy and even with that it's hard to find something old like the Game Boy as opposed to finding a 3DS. ._. Why really go through the trouble of getting the "real deal" when you can make make the "real deal" on a modern console that is still in stores?

That is the one million dollar question. It's not like they can't. If a big time company made games for an older system, I can guarantee they'd be put back on the market. But they're too afraid to do such a thing, so, it'll never happen unless someone takes initiative. But anyway, as for these games, there's obviously not going to be a GB Sounds, but there might be references to the previous regions, like all the later games do.

Edited by Koh, 24 January 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Moonbread]

A huge problem with your idea is one little thing that people value. Convenience. We're in an age where people would rather have one device that can do all the functions they need for them, than having a bunch of smaller devices laying around everywhere. I mean, that's why systems typically have some reverse-compatibility to them (and especially why Virtual Console is a wonderful thing for existing). Also, novelty just wears off after a while. Not much point in developing for a 20 year old system if it's easier to do on a current gen console. Hence the earlier example, Megaman 9 and 10.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

That is the one million dollar question. It's not like they can't. If a big time company made games for an older system, I can guarantee they'd be put back on the market. But they're too afraid to do such a thing, so, it'll never happen unless someone takes initiative. But anyway, as for these games, there's obviously not going to be a GB Sounds, but there might be references to the previous regions, like all the later games do.

There's no way a console such as the Gameboy is ever going to be 'put back on the market'. If you really think so, that only shows how little you know about how this industry works.

What you may see is stuff like the Duo-SNES that's been around for a while, that lets you play both NES and SNES-games. There's a lot of consoles like these around, but they are not developed by the original manufacturers, nor are they official. Nor will anyone make any new games for them with the hopes of getting sales. That's not happening. Why? Because they're old consoles. We have moved on. You can emulate NES on a phone now, and even if minor details like midi files not sounding exactly the same due to fonts (which might I add could easily be changed), that's not nearly enough of an intensive for someone like Nintendo to go out and release an ancient console on a market that they're already struggling with keeping up with. Especially when it can all be done on other devices, which would be cheaper and would completely eliminate the cost of producing new batches of an old console.

There's also the fact that almost no one would buy them. How do I know that? Well, it's pretty simple: this industry is all about profit, and console cycles are being stretched out and milked for everything they've got - the fact that they're not re-releasing the Gameboy shows us that they've come to the decision that there's no profit to be gotten from doing that. Another example that shows us they've been thinking about this, is the fact that we have the Virtual Console, which focuses completely on delivering older games to new and old audiences alike. That's their re-released Gameboy, if you will. And it's a glorified emulator.