899 replies to this topic

[ShadowTiger]

Keys drop from enemies now, which is... strange to say the least.

It does feel a little bit weird, especially because there are one or two bosses that actually only guard a single key. It feels inconsistent, and very suspicious. But that's okay. Legacy of the Wizard also had enemies that dropped keys, and lockblocks aplenty.

Speaking of the boss guarding the bomb, after he was beaten, I still got warped to the fight after I got to the bombs and tried to exit. Had to Save and Quit my way out of that one.

This is definitely a bug that lots of people are experiencing. It's a weird one. I feel like some scripting salvation is in order to fix that. Like, having its own separate script just to check if enemies were defeated, then trigger a D[#] flag, and have an FFC script running on the initial pre-boss screen to check if that's checked, and remove all warps off the screen. Because this bug is just nasty.

[Din]

I'm up to Libra right now.

Alright, so, the story and atmosphere have not faltered - you're a great writer and the plot is wonderful and compelling.

The game itself feels a bit rough around the edges, for me. It's hard, for sure, but it feels like it's less in the tense, challenging way, and more in the kinda rusty "why won't you die already" way. Provided you don't go into fights armed such that it's a curb stomp match, the bosses always seem to feel just a little bit too durable, with too little variety to really keep it from degenerating into a series of patterns to be followed before the fight is done.

There were fantastic bosses too, though. The Zodiac bosses in general were great, tense, and creative. The Cancer and Gemini (man, the Gemini one is neat) bosses in particular come to mind in that respect. The corridors were fantastic and fun as well.

The stages themselves were also neat, but my main problem I ran into many times is that there were many secrets that really felt arbitrary. I've had to go into the editor more than a few times to figure out what I was supposed to do. Sometimes it was stuff I simply hadn't searched hard enough for. But other times, the way forward involved firing at random walls, or shooting a missile at the floor, which, unless I've missed a terminal or two (definitely a possibility) I would not have guessed that was what I was supposed to do at all. The first example of this for me cropped up in Aries, where finding the path to the high jump boots involved shooting an otherwise really innocuous looking wall tile. This ended up driving me crazy before I just gave up on it and looked in the editor. I had similar experiences with trying to find out how to drop on the block bridge to get to the disintegrator in Cancer and the Grapple Beam in Gemini.

As far as bugs go, I haven't kept track, but off the top of my head, I haven't managed to actually equip any of the Zodiac weapons because the selector hasn't seemed to work for me.

The first corridor in Cancer warps you to Libra upon completion.

The black hole armor does not give you the black hole attack.

Edited by Din, 04 August 2014 - 11:48 PM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Okay, I'm back in town.  During my vacation, all I managed to do was draw some sprites, so not much has been done in a few weeks.  I'll remedy that this weekend.  Here's some feedback on the feedback:

 

Din - Glad you like the game so far!  

 

You're correct to notice that this game makes use of the "bomb this random location" trope quite a bit.  I'm reluctant to remove this mechanic entirely, annoying though it is, because that's how many of the games I take inspiration from operated as well.  (Have you ever tried to play Legacy of the Wizard without a strategy guide?  Good freaking luck with that!)  However, I can do a better job about making more hints in terminal rooms.  Right now each plot-required bombable wall has one terminal that describes it OR is graphically demonstrated with a block that doesn't seem to fit where it goes. 

 

I think, rather than removing this mechanic entirely, I will just try to ensure each critical bomb location has TWO different terminals that refer to it so that the player is very unlikely to miss the hint.

 

Some of the early bosses are indeed boring, with very limited AI.  For some, this is fine -- the boss guarding the Armor is simple, but moves fast enough to be a challenge.  Some others just need to be re-done.  I want to do this last, though, because the first bosses should be the MOST polished.  That way, the player is motivated to keep playing from the get-go.  The Corridor and Zodiac bosses have been treated with far more love and care, since they're more important.  The first battle with Iron is about right, since he's not supposed to be hard yet.  If the player loses their cool, they'll be massacred.  If you keep your head and pay attention, the battle is trivially easy.  That's not true of the later battles.  Iron 2 has a far more narrow window to exploit the degenerative strategy, and Iron 3 and above mix it up with uppercuts that break the pattern, forcing you to react more quickly.  

 

I have no clue why some of the boss warps keep activating.  Everything has been checked and double checked.  What is really weird is that many of them work the SECOND time, just not the first time.  I have no explanation for this.  In the short term, I am just trying to get everything working, and then we'll go back and try to stomp these strange bugs later.  I might need to beg for help from one of the ZClassid devs if it turns out to be a strange engine issue.

 

The Black Hole armor is not supposed to give you that attack, not anymore.  I may add the Black Hole Bombs as an optional item, but for now, the effect is provided by Super Missiles.

 

EDIT: Finished the graphics for the Pandora, finally.  It turns out that drawing a spaceship that is twenty screens tall pixel by pixel in MS Paint is a huge pain in the ass and takes multiple days to do.  But, anyway, it's all done now.  With some tweaking, some of the final boss graphics are done, too.  So tonight I should be able to get back to coding.

Edited by C-Dawg, 11 August 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[MaximumCDawg]

I have not been able to dedicate the monster chunks of time necessary to code up the ending sequence of the game, but I have been working steadily on fixing small bugs and changing design slightly to make the player less annoyed.  At least in the early game.  So, I've posted a new download link.  Without cheating, I am able to get from the beginning of the game all the way to the end of the normal game sequence (before the climax and end boss battles).  So. it's playable.

 

There are definitely moments  where the difficulty cranks up another notch, however, and you as a player can really feel it.  Once you reach Aries, suddenly you have to grope around and explore everything for the first time to figure out where to go.  When you reach Taurus, suddenly death is an almost constant concern.  Then you reach Leo and the difficulty cranks up again... and then finally Capricorn, where you want to throw your controller on the floor and ragequit.  I ragequit SEVERAL times before completing that area.  Strangely enough, this is sort of what I'm going for.

 

I have started a Quest Project database entry for the quest now, so you can get updates and post comments there.  I would love it if people could record a Youtube video showcasing some of the gameplay to post.  Hypercam is not cooperating with me.

 

EDIT: The download link in the Quest Project area is now functional.

Edited by C-Dawg, 23 December 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[MaximumCDawg]

This message got garbled badly during an edit, so I've deleted the entire thing for readability.

 

The important thing to know is that all the corridors done so far - 18 of the 20 - are all functioning properly now.  I had a problem with room state carryovers not working.  I overcame the problem by using some global variables to set completion of each corridor and trigger secrets based on that instead of the carryover function.  I had this array sitting around anyway because I have to check for completion of all corridors at the end of the  game.  

 

So, we're looking like this:

 

1. Finish last 2 corridors.

2. Fix up some random problems with a few items, particularly Grapple and Grapple 2.  

3. Add some more sub-bosses based on corridor bosses for rematches.  Probably swap out the first Cancer boss entirely for this.

4. Code the part where Iron is following you.

5. Design the escape route (spanning multiple Zones) after setting off the Core.

6. Final flying level.

7. Final boss.

8. Escape sequence.

9. Ending.

10. Return to early game and tweak it violently so that the player does not lose interest early on.

 

After that, it's just more testing.

Edited by C-Dawg, 29 December 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Aquarius Corridors are now working.  Leo's second corridor is now the last one to do.  Grapple 2 is also working, and Grapple generally has been improved in both appearance and effect.  Hooray, no more getting pulled into the wall!

[ShadowTiger]

Aww, but that was the fun part. Err.. Hi, wow, topics apparently become un-followed after a certain amount of time. That's no good.

Okay, back to testing we go! I still have the bug-testing document on my desktop from last time. I have no idea what's been fixed and what hasn't, but thankfully there's a bunch of holidays around this time of year. Years. Okay.

Thanks. Time to get to it then.


--------

Fun fact: Did you know that if you upgrade the side-arm's speed too many times, it actually skips over some spaces, and most enemies you try to hit will be entirely unharmed? It really is as fun as it sounds.

[MaximumCDawg]

Interesting.  I suppose one thing to add to the hopper is to make the Sidearm bonuses more visible and useful.  Perhaps above a certain level you get a solid beam instead of a single bullet.  Worth going into later, I suppose.

 

Anyway, yeah, you can follow most downloads on the Quest Project area now that I'm using it.  It's a good feature you guys have added!

[ShadowTiger]

Thanks for the consideration. I've been using the sidearm a lot lately. With energy regenerating far faster in relation to TLOZ with any of the magic rings, it's something actually worth doing!

Here's a brief list of English-related quirks in the string list, and more likely spelling or usage.

Spoiler

332 - Propaganda
338 - convenient
357 - occurrence
156 - government
538 - cellular
644 - Protein
645 - Digital
665 - Visitor
677 -> 678 has an extra "the" between the two.
651 ends abruptly at the moment.
688 - Perspective
689 - Accidentally
692 - Needs the word "to" in there. Unless we're using the olde language.
69u - Compatible --- word is divided between two lines at the moment.
714 - Retrieve
730 - Virgo
745 - Virgo

And two quick bugs from the list.

Regarding the miniboss guarding the Bombs in Scorpio - The boss still re-triggers. It may be worth creating a script that manually erases any tile warps on the screen using some sort of global or D[] variable. I know it's an irritating bug, but it's a big one. For example, one thing that could be done is to create a completely unique combo that is only used on that one screen for the warp to the miniboss fight, and then after the boss is defeated, change the combo type of the combo to a non-warp. I figure that would be a permanent change that would bypass any need for secret triggering.



Aries 55 into 56, in the upper part of the screen, there's a walkability issue.

[MaximumCDawg]

I did some work last night.  

 

1. Scripted a fix for the recurring boss bug that keeps annoying people in Scorpio.  (And the rematch in Libra, which had the same problem).

2. Fixed the spelling errors you noticed.

3. Completed Leo Corridor 2.  It's sort of a boss rush.  As a side note, do you know why "Enemies->Secret is Permanent" is necessary to allow the Screen->TriggerSecrets(); function to operate?  Because I dont, but I'll be damned if that's not what finally made the thing work.

4. Designed and completed the small map making up the infested Pandora, complete with the stage designs for the final battles.

5. I did this a little early, but the final boss' sprites are all uploaded now.  Except for the "spinning wheel" effect I need for the Zodiac weapons changing; but for that I'm thinking more of a Secret of Mana style wheel of stuff emerging from the enemy rather than a physical device.  Makes the screen design less cluttered.

 

I'll update the project again once I finish two more things I'm trying to tackle:

 

1. Complete Sagittarius so that the Infinity Jump boots and the Zodiac Changer (both optional* items) are accessible.

2. Fix the problem with enemies in the Corridors displaying the death "poof" animation in the visible top left corner of the screen.  I don't understand why this is happening at all.  The code SHOULD be sending it to -16,-16 so the player cannot see it.

 

Looking down the road:

 

1. Now that all of the corridors are done and the script is working to tick them off the array when completed, I'm in a position to make the final script that will check for completion of all corridors, ally you with Iron, and send you through the final part of the game.  I was thinking of going typical Metroid-style, where you race against a countdown, but I may just give the player free reign with Iron as an ally.  If I do that, I'd need to give him more functionality so that there's a reason to bother wandering around with him in tow.

 

2. The final flying level requires me to have a starfield background and then, on top of that, slowly scroll the Pandora as you fly over it.  Probably it will be timed to scroll only as you defeat parts of it.  Lining up enemy turrets and such with the vessel itself, while having the whole kit and caboodle move around as you fly, is going to be a pain in the ass.  This is probably a good solid weekend project.

 

3. Final boss is going to take me about the time it would take to make 9 normal bosses (because of the 9 modes) and so thats probably going to take weeks of work.

 

4. Since the final sequence will be LONG, but also one-way, I'm thinking of setting up continue points that give the player the option of continuing with the endgame or returning to the game when they continue just prior to jumping over that cliff.  This should be doable.

 

Still, there's light at the end of the tunnel!

Edited by C-Dawg, 02 January 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

I did some work last night.

 

1. Scripted a fix for the recurring boss bug that keeps annoying people in Scorpio.  (And the rematch in Libra, which had the same problem).
2. Fixed the spelling errors you noticed.
3. Completed Leo Corridor 2.  It's sort of a boss rush.  As a side note, do you know why "Enemies->Secret is Permanent" is necessary to allow the Screen->TriggerSecrets(); function to operate?  Because I dont, but I'll be damned if that's not what finally made the thing work.
4. Designed and completed the small map making up the infested Pandora, complete with the stage designs for the final battles.

"Some" he says. Designing and completing a map counts as only a facet of "some." Cute.

5. I did this a little early, but the final boss' sprites are all uploaded now.  Except for the "spinning wheel" effect I need for the Zodiac weapons changing; but for that I'm thinking more of a Secret of Mana style wheel of stuff emerging from the enemy rather than a physical device.  Makes the screen design less cluttered.

I believe MoscowModder (At least I hope it was him.) designed a similar wheel. Could be interesting to consult with him just in case.

[MaximumCDawg]

 
"Some" he says. Designing and completing a map counts as only a facet of "some." Cute.

 

I'm not being modest.  It's a small map, and compared to the amount of work that goes into scripting in this quest, doing map work is a Sunday stroll in the park.

[MaximumCDawg]

Pandora spaceflight (last in the game) is working.  Huzzah!  I nixed the idea of stationary turrets, as they're just too much of a math headache to line up correctly.  Instead, it's a classic nightmare bullet hell level without even the safety of predictable, geometric patterns.  Those of you who have reached at least Virgo (re: none of you) have learned that spamming your attack is no longer safe in the later part of the game, and it gets even worse here; don't poke the Ameboids, kids. Add to all of that, your opponent has some serious firepower of his own to bring to bear, and I think it works to turn up the dial on the way to the final showdown.

 

I don't think I'll have a flying boss at the end of this particular flying level.  That means we can tick 2 off of my list above.

 

All that's left to do is code the final boss(es?), draft the ending, and link everything after the completion of the corridors together with narration.  Getting pretty close.

Edited by C-Dawg, 04 January 2015 - 01:57 AM.

[newstarshipsmell]

Tile bugs:

 

Aries 78, inside the item room -  there's an invisible block extending leftwards from the platform above the door:

 Didn't notice it when I entered, before picking up the item. Bounced off it trying to jump back to the door afterwards.

 

Cancer 2F -  bottom row on right side, looks like it ought to have an upperleft-corner tile for the stuff below in 3F:

 

Scorpio 31 -  one of the sandblocks can't be disintegrated:

 

Scorpio 4F, 5F, 6F, 6E and 6D - all of these rooms have a tile in the upper-left corner which disappears* once you finish scrolling into the room, presumably because they all have scripted moving platforms. In three of the rooms, it's behind other solid blocks so it's just a cosmetic bug, but it's possible to jump into the hole in 4F by jumping up/scrolling into 3F, then holding left as you fall back down into 4F. You can walk left into 4E, though you're stuck in the wall (you can walk back out to 4F):

You can also jump up into 5E from 6E, and you fall right back down. There's an entrance from 6E into 5E on the right side anyways, so it's hardly a spoiler.

 

Boss bug:

I made it to the boss in Scorpio 50 - upon dropping the boss's meter to zero, the meter disappears, and he continues fighting. I finally beat him (after getting the dash boots) so apparently it's just a bug with his meter - it only displays one meter, with only one color. I shot him a few more times after it disappeared and he finally died.

 

Some feedback/suggestions:

 

I really wish I'd discovered this last year when you were still creating it; I'm not sure how much energy you have left to tweak things throughout the game, since it sounds like you're largely done with it, but here goes...

 

Bombs.

I don't mind having to bomb around to find stuff - though I agree that progress-critical stuff behind bombable walls should have hints located elsewhere. Stuff like health/energy powerups without hints where to find them are fine, since those who aren't as good at beating hard bosses can spend the time hunting around for everything they can find before facing them to give themselves a slighter edge.

 

However (and I apologize if this has been previously addressed), the bomb placement could really use some tweaking, if possible. It would be nice if they'd remain in place if they're contacting a wall tile even partially - instead, they are apparently ruled by the same walkability/gravity rules as everything else, so they fall off the ceiling easily, and fall through floors that are only 1 tile deep. This makes attempting to bomb some parts of walls rather frustrating and tedious, especially when you ultimately realize that you cannot manage to place a bomb on a particular tile, even though you can deploy it in contact with it.

 

Also (and I doubt you'll want to do this, but worth a shot suggesting it) you could do an homage to Xevious by modifying the corridors, and the bombs when used in them, so that you have flying enemies affected by the rest of your weaponry, and ground-based enemies that can only be bombed (or at least, not shot with your regular weapon or other items, but perhaps still by your special weapon.) You'd just need to animate the bombs so they shrink and appear to fall and explode. I'm not familiar with the inner workings of ZC/ZQ so I don't know if this would entail creating separate layers or something or whether the entire idea would be unworkable under the ZC engine. But it would be pretty cool.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 04 January 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Feedback is always appreciated, and just because I'm nearly done with the quest doesn't mean that I won't continue attending to the bugs.  Scripting actually makes dealing with them easier, because anything that Zquest won't fix easily can usually be tweaked with a few lines of code.  I'm not looking for another Dreams of Yesterday thing here.  

 

Also: last year?  I think I started this game in 2008.  I did about half of it at that time, then picked it up again last summer.  At this point it probably represents a year and a half of work, really, just with a break in between.  I'm not sick of it in the slightest, so keep your reports coming.

 

Some things I'm not sure about:

 

1. You mentioned having a display somewhere of your current Sidearm upgrades.  This is a good idea, and I thought of it too, but at the moment Sidearm upgrades are controlled by global variables.  I don't think there's a way to set a counter block for those.  I could script a tile-based number system like I do for the player's health, but that's a ton of work and it only works on the passive subscreen because I can't run scripts on the active subscreen.  I could code an entirely new active subscreen from scratch, intercepting the player pushing the "start" button before Zquest uses it, but that's probably more work than I want to do.  

 

I suppose I could look for game counters I'm not using, like Super Bombs, but I don't know if I have three of them free.  I will look into this.  

 

If I had my druthers, there would be three displays on the subscreen that are not there now:

Sidearm Upgrades (Power, Speed, Energy)

Zodiac Weapon Project (One for each Zodiac sign; only appears after you've discovered the project)

Corridor Completion Count (At least tell the player how many are left.  TGL had a really elegant way of doing this using the minimap, but I'm not using maps, so.)

 

2.  On the topic of ground/flying enemies in Corridors; nah.  This is a personal preference thing entirely, but since it's my game, I'm gonna make it how I like it, dammit.  I hate games where you need to use different weapons to hit different enemies in flying levels.  
 

3. I could script a new bomb item that does what you suggest, but I'm thinking it's a diminishing return.  The Explosive Missiles accomplish the same thing that the bombs do, so as the game goes on the bombs are really just used for carpet bombing rooms to check for secrets.  They can afford to be a little sloppy.  So I guess I'm saying this is a known issue, but it's a low-priority one.

 

Other than those two things, you can assume I'm reading your comments and making fixes as I am able.

 

EDIT: Also, from where you are in Scorpio, it looks like you should have acquired the Sting.  No?  Waiting to go back to Aquarius first?

Edited by C-Dawg, 04 January 2015 - 10:45 PM.