237 replies to this topic

[Moosh]

the palette system might be going through a major overhaul and it would make any future Koten tiles incompatible with Beta v1.0.

This shouldn't be a problem, actually. With ZQuest's import and export features, a questmaker could easily transfer new palettes and tiles over to a quest made in this version without many issues even if there was a palette overhaul.

[Geoffrey]

I made a couple of screens.  Koten has the ease of Classic yet is far more appealing to the eye.  It is both familiar and unfamiliar, such that creativity is encouraged.

[strike]

I've been using classic for years so I thought I'd check this out. It's pretty cool! Things I've noticed:

 

1) To me one of the coolest things is that it matches new versions of classic so well that you can just import the graphics and add a new flavor to the quest. In promoting the graphics I'd say that's one of the most important perks to mention. Good idea!

 

2) It looks sweet!

 

3) The pallet placement seems REALLY weird to me, probably I'm misunderstanding something. Why are the 'normal' pallets located where enemy pallets are usually placed? If you imported the graphics and pallets into your quest you would be stuck with a really weird pallet. If you don't get what I'm saying, ask, I'm not being very clear. What I'm saying is why are the pallets not aligned between classic and Koten?

 

4) I like the extra overworld tiles!

 

5) There's a problem with the extra overworld tiles. When people add extra tiles to their quests they usually add them in the space occupied the extra tiles. If they imported the graphic set this would mess up their quest. The solution is pretty simple though. Just move the extra tiles down a whole lot where people don't make new tiles. Then make a link in the favorite tiles to use box that gets you there when you right click.

 

6) Nitpick but the second and third dirt tiles should be switched.

 

So I would really like to try this out in my quest but right now there's some stuff stopping me. But really good job! I like it!

 

-Strike

[Moonbread]

This looks pretty great.  I love the style and the colors are really nice.  I definitely want to play around/make something with this.  A couple things though:

 

1. I would realllllly like some house tiles.  Having all these other details added to the Classic set but no houses?  We're not cavemen, we have technology.

 

2. Is there any chance you wouldn't mind making a female hero set?  Pretty please?

[Geoffrey]

This looks pretty great.  I love the style and the colors are really nice.  I definitely want to play around/make something with this.  A couple things though:

 

1. I would realllllly like some house tiles.  Having all these other details added to the Classic set but no houses?  We're not cavemen, we have technology.

 

2. Is there any chance you wouldn't mind making a female hero set?  Pretty please?

I second both of these.

 

I also agree with strike about the palettes.  I don't particularly mind, but I do still wonder what the reason is for having such oddly arranged palettes.

[Koh]

This looks pretty great.  I love the style and the colors are really nice.  I definitely want to play around/make something with this.  A couple things though:

 

1. I would realllllly like some house tiles.  Having all these other details added to the Classic set but no houses?  We're not cavemen, we have technology.

 

2. Is there any chance you wouldn't mind making a female hero set?  Pretty please?

2. Seems kinda random, and more of a personal thing than a tileset thing.  But it would be an interesting chance to make a hero and heroine based off of BS Zelda, but stylized for classic Koten.  

Edited by Koh, 18 May 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[DragonDePlatino]

3) The pallet placement seems REALLY weird to me, probably I'm misunderstanding something. Why are the 'normal' pallets located where enemy pallets are usually placed? If you imported the graphics and pallets into your quest you would be stuck with a really weird pallet. If you don't get what I'm saying, ask, I'm not being very clear. What I'm saying is why are the pallets not aligned between classic and Koten?
 
5) There's a problem with the extra overworld tiles. When people add extra tiles to their quests they usually add them in the space occupied the extra tiles. If they imported the graphic set this would mess up their quest. The solution is pretty simple though. Just move the extra tiles down a whole lot where people don't make new tiles. Then make a link in the favorite tiles to use box that gets you there when you right click.
 
6) Nitpick but the second and third dirt tiles should be switched.

 
Hey, Strike! I know you've probably been following this project since it's start so thanks for your patience and the nice compliments.
 
As far as tweaking tiles go, I'm fine with moving the ground tiles but I'd really rather not move the new overworld tiles. No matter where I shove them, there will always be conflicts. Can't predict 'em all. 
 
And the palettes? Hmm...There's a lot I'd like to say but, to be blunt, I have no idea how ZC palettes work. I've read up on everything the wiki has and that I know of, there shouldn't be any sprite/overworld palette conflicts other than Link's tunic changes. And I've already fixed those! But yeah, sadly I had to completely reinvent Classic's palette system. An explanation, if you will...
 

 
There are several "styles" of NES graphics out there. Some of the earlier NES games go for high-usability, where each of a sprite's 3 colors belongs to a different shade. A good example of this is SMB3. The pirahna plant there doesn't have any shading or very much detail,  but you can also swap out any of it's colors and no matter what combination you use, it will still make artistic sense. On the other hand, we have late NES games like Sunsoft's Batman. They chose to make their sprites have a 3-color monochrome palette and as a result, they were able to shade with a lot of detail. But the tradeoff is that you can't use any combination of colors. One color must be brighter and the other must be darker. And generally speaking, they both have to be near each other on the color wheel.
 
The original Legend of Zelda went for the high-usability route while Koten took the high-detail route. And unless you layer sprites to add more detail (Like Mega Man did) these graphics are incompatible with each other. And that's why Koten uses an entirely different palette system.
 
 

This looks pretty great.  I love the style and the colors are really nice.  I definitely want to play around/make something with this.  A couple things though:
 
1. I would realllllly like some house tiles.  Having all these other details added to the Classic set but no houses?  We're not cavemen, we have technology.
 
2. Is there any chance you wouldn't mind making a female hero set?  Pretty please?

Yes, and yes! Both of those are something I've planned from the start for Koten Advanced. I'm not going to be adding any more tiles to Koten Basic (to stay import-friendly) but for Advanced I'll be completely reinventing the Zelda aesthetic. I'll be keeping all of the sprite/item/gui graphics, but for terrain I'll be going nuts but keeping it simple to save on screen space. Here's an example of the kind of tiling I'm going for, courtesy bologht:

 

[Demonlink]

Here's an example of the kind of tiling I'm going for, courtesy bologht:

 

So, technically Koten Advanced would be like a "Classic" DoR? I think this may be for me in the future... *Laughs in a sinister way*

Well, I look forward to what you have planned for Koten Advanced As always, excellent job

Edited by Demonlink, 18 May 2014 - 02:04 PM.

[Geoffrey]

Sounds good, DragonDePlatino.

 

The difficulty with your palettes is that, in ZC, CSets 2-4 are usually used for the overworld tiles, since they are the ones that change with the palette.  Most of the other CSets are usually dedicated to the subscreen and sprites, since they will not change with the palette.  I don't mind how you've set up the palettes, but the arrangement does go against the 'natural workings', so to speak, of ZC's palette system.

 

 Yes, and yes! Both of those are something I've planned from the start for Koten Advanced. I'm not going to be adding any more tiles to Koten Basic (to stay import-friendly) but for Advanced I'll be completely reinventing the Zelda aesthetic. I'll be keeping all of the sprite/item/gui graphics, but for terrain I'll be going nuts but keeping it simple to save on screen space. Here's an example of the kind of tiling I'm going for, courtesy bologht:

Oh god.  That person's walking sprite of Guybrush; it's beautiful:

 

[strike]

The pallets themselves are fine! I'm saying that the way you've arranged them is weird. Switching the pallets around could fix them. For instance it seems like pallet 6 should be pallet 2 while pallet 2 should be pallet 1. Just look at classic for a reference point. If it's too much work to fix, it's fine. I'm thinking about what would happen if you imported them over.

 

It's obviously your choice whether or not to keep the extra overworld tiles where they are or not, but I would bet as they are now, the placement would conflict with at least 60% of quests made in ZC where if you moved them down about ten pages they would conflict with at most 5%. So I don't really see the point in not moving them.

 

-Strike

[Moonbread]

Would it at all be an issue to create a separate, loose sprite sheet for a female hero (bundled with the set), then?  While it feels sort of painful that I have to request it that way (sort of digs in the whole "you are a second class citizen" feeling), I would really appreciate it.

[anikom15]

Recommended reading on ZC's color system:
http://www.shardstor...ki/Color_system
http://www.shardstor.../ZCwiki/Palette

[Anthus]

I looked through the new beta, and it looks nice. I haven't made any screens myself yet, but I was wondering if you had any plans to to a first quest re-skin as a pack-in with it?

[anikom15]

Would it at all be an issue to create a separate, loose sprite sheet for a female hero (bundled with the set), then?  While it feels sort of painful that I have to request it that way (sort of digs in the whole "you are a second class citizen" feeling), I would really appreciate it.

 

I don't understand how a request such as this is any different than say a request for more houses, &c. FWIW, Pure and DoR lack non-white characters.

[Geoffrey]

Since I'm 50% British and 50% Spanish, I would like to request extra sprites of Link as a hairy monobrowed conquistador in a kilt (no underwear).  Please represent my people.