121 replies to this topic

[Gleeok]

My questions to you are these: Is he still contactable? If so, what if you attempted to ask him about it? How long ago did he last express that wish? Is there any possibility that he might ever change his mind on it? You will never know if he is never asked. After all, it is a program he created in 1999.

I don't really have any answers to those questions. The best I can guess is that protecting pass-worded quests and content that quest-makers do not want to be publicly available is the prevailing reason, aside from PM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I don't really have any answers to those questions. The best I can guess is that protecting pass-worded quests and content that quest-makers do not want to be publicly available is the prevailing reason, aside from PM.

When you put it like that, I too must say that I wouldn't like it open-source. It's not so much that I don't want to share how I do things, but knowing that people could just basically change up a few stuff and call it their own quest, or rip tons of graphics that are only found in THP... I don't like the idea of that. This is me, and Joe's hard work, and honestly, I want it to stay that way.

Of course, if that is indeed the problem. I don't know how coding works, as I have said so many times already in this thread. In fact, the name of the topic should be changed to "The topic where Robin finally admits that he's an idiot".

[Plissken]

That's why we'd also need an .exe exporter option. Make the game, export the .exe, and until someone makes a decompiler (I doubt someone would anyway, this community's fairly small enough where that sorta stuff wouldn't be done.) it's safe from theft.

Every single person who uses Game Maker puts their work at risk now that there's decompiling, but it's so rarely ever used for malicious intent there hasn't been a dip in activity like people thought it would be. And if it is? You call the person out on it, the community knows when to spot a fake, we've done it before.

[Bourkification]

If someone wants to steal your stuff, then they'll steal it. Some do it now by taking screenshots while playing the game. The system we have now is no more safer than the one Plissken just suggested. (Of course it would have to be able to export in Mac and Linux formats as well).

They way I see it is right now is that all of these threads that are made about the future of Zelda Classic, they are all full of talk and here-say. When have they actually set direction of where ZC is going? It's all talk and no action. There is no 'leader' of Zelda Classic. The developer's almost seem to be out of sync with each other. To my knowledge, and I would presume the rest of the community's knowledge, there has not been anything proposed by the developers, as a joint team, regarding the end point of 2.5, and the version after that. When exactly will 2.5 be complete, and fit to be released? How many more features or tweaks are to come? When does the focus turn solely on bug-fixing?

Now that Large Mode is done (according to _L_ as reported on the Change Log on the 9th of April), no more 'adding' should be done. Forget about adding extra scripting functions. The majority of quest makers do not care nor need these functions to create a Zelda game. Sure being able to make all these other types of games, like shooters and the like is great, but it is going past the first and foremost function of the program, which is to make a Zelda game. Refinement of the script engine should be postponed for the versions after 2.5. Changes to the scripting is the biggest thing holding back 2.5, in my opinion.

The Zelda Classic after 2.5 should still remain as user friendly as it has in the past. Quest makers should not have to rely on scripting to make great games, as is the case with other programs like Game Maker. ZC, post-2.5 should focus on the ability to re-create any 2D Zelda game, to a certain extent. Before creating a new quest, you are given the option to select a set of 'rules', like we presently are with 2.5. There are 5 different options which sets the quest up with presets which mimic the gameplay of the different games: The original Zelda, Adventure of Link, Link to the Past, Gameboy and The Minish Cap. The scripting language should be there to do things that are unable to be done in those 2D Zelda games; scripting should be an extension of the program rather than the backbone of it.

So developers, I implore you you get together (in and online sense), and generate ideas. Work out where ZC is headed. But most of all make sure you act on something.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

If someone wants to steal your stuff, then they'll steal it. Some do it now by taking screenshots while playing the game. The system we have now is no more safer than the one Plissken just suggested. (Of course it would have to be able to export in Mac and Linux formats as well).

They way I see it is right now is that all of these threads that are made about the future of Zelda Classic, they are all full of talk and here-say. When have they actually set direction of where ZC is going? It's all talk and no action. There is no 'leader' of Zelda Classic. The developer's almost seem to be out of sync with each other. To my knowledge, and I would presume the rest of the community's knowledge, there has not been anything proposed by the developers, as a joint team, regarding the end point of 2.5, and the version after that. When exactly will 2.5 be complete, and fit to be released? How many more features or tweaks are to come? When does the focus turn solely on bug-fixing?

Now that Large Mode is done (according to _L_ as reported on the Change Log on the 9th of April), no more 'adding' should be done. Forget about adding extra scripting functions. The majority of quest makers do not care nor need these functions to create a Zelda game. Sure being able to make all these other types of games, like shooters and the like is great, but it is going past the first and foremost function of the program, which is to make a Zelda game. Refinement of the script engine should be postponed for the versions after 2.5. Changes to the scripting is the biggest thing holding back 2.5, in my opinion.

The Zelda Classic after 2.5 should still remain as user friendly as it has in the past. Quest makers should not have to rely on scripting to make great games, as is the case with other programs like Game Maker. ZC, post-2.5 should focus on the ability to re-create any 2D Zelda game, to a certain extent. Before creating a new quest, you are given the option to select a set of 'rules', like we presently are with 2.5. There are 5 different options which sets the quest up with presets which mimic the gameplay of the different games: The original Zelda, Adventure of Link, Link to the Past, Gameboy and The Minish Cap. The scripting language should be there to do things that are unable to be done in those 2D Zelda games; scripting should be an extension of the program rather than the backbone of it.

So developers, I implore you you get together (in and online sense), and generate ideas. Work out where ZC is headed. But most of all make sure you act on something.

I don't think it's our right to say that we know what's going on behind their closed doors. I'm not saying you're wrong, but what we don't know, we don't know, right? Now, no one has to rely in scripting to make great games. I've already said this multiple times in this very topic! Scripting can make questdesigning a little easier, I guess, and it can speed things up... it can of course do stuff that you simply can't without it, but that shouldn't mean you should be able to. Look at it this way: If you know how to script, that's a plus... if you don't know how to script, that's your problem. You can learn... or you can make a great game without scripts. It's been done before, you know

[Sheik]

Well, jimmyb still has a point in what he is saying. I'm not going to tell the developers what they should do or not, it's their business. But I am going to admit that a Zelda Classic with such a set of" rules" (Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4, Z7?8?..Minish Cap) and no need for scripting (say, big enemies without scripting, signposts withouth scripting, talking NPCs without scripting, throwing rocks/pots/bushes without scripting, ...) and scripting only for advanced stuff such as custom bosses or the like would be an ideal Zelda-Fangame engine. For those who say that this is not the point of Zelda Classic: not only Z1 is a Classic, but so is LttP, LA, ...even the Minish Cap nowadays.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Well, jimmyb still has a point in what he is saying. I'm not going to tell the developers what they should do or not, it's their business. But I am going to admit that a Zelda Classic with such a set of" rules" (Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4, Z7?8?..Minish Cap) and no need for scripting (say, big enemies without scripting, signposts withouth scripting, talking NPCs without scripting, throwing rocks/pots/bushes without scripting, ...) and scripting only for advanced stuff such as custom bosses or the like would be an ideal Zelda-Fangame engine. For those who say that this is not the point of Zelda Classic: not only Z1 is a Classic, but so is LttP, LA, ...even the Minish Cap nowadays.

Of course he has a point. The reason I started using Zelda Classic was because I didn't need to know any code. What I'm saying is that I don't think they should cut back on the scripting just because of this. In fact, it is my opinion that they should continiue working on it, making it better and better... though without making it impossible to make a game without it. Reading over jimmy's post again though, that's sort of what he was saying, with it not being the backbone of the program. I agree.

[Saffith]

Undoubtedly, a lot of simple and common things that currently require scripts, like ladders, signposts, or playing sounds, will be possible without scripts in 3.0. But I also would very much like to see scripts made easier to use. So, for instance, you could just go to Quest->Import->Enemy or Quest->Import->Item, pick a file, and then just see a new enemy class or item type listed along with all the built-in ones. Or, even better, any such files in the game directory could be imported automatically. Not knowing how to write scripts is one thing, but they should at least be simple to use once they're made.

[Sheik]

That's the answer we've all been wanting to hear! "What will happen after 2.5?" - the awesome 3.0 :O. That indeed sounds very cool, Saffith. Guess I'm looking forward to it than =) I was a bit afraid that you guys were not planning to fully implent those features without scripting, but hearing how you are, a lot of my worries have gone away :3 yay!

[Jupiter]

That's the answer we've all been wanting to hear! "What will happen after 2.5?" - the awesome 3.0 :O. That indeed sounds very cool, Saffith. Guess I'm looking forward to it than =) I was a bit afraid that you guys were not planning to fully implent those features without scripting, but hearing how you are, a lot of my worries have gone away :3 yay!

Ditto.

[Yapollo]

ZC 3.0 would be so awesome if those features were included, but I'm still learning the ins and outs of 2.5, I cannot even imagine what future potential 3.0 would hold

[cosmofield]

I was thinking this one day "this feels a little bloated" and the reason I thought it was that I had one idea to design a short classic 8-level quest in the same style as the original Z1 (maybe not so imaginative but whatever), there's scripting and lots of other features such as editing enemies, quest rules and combo properties.

Point is that the devs should focus towards a stable 2.5 version, sooner or later stop adding yet more features and items, focus to make a final 'master' version for official release, and then start maybe on the 3.0 with even more potential or whatever what ideas there are on the drawing board. Right now there's possible to build all kinds of different games with the editor (in fact no shame) but maybe the project is getting to far away from the original idea, a zelda engine with Z1 quests, happily looking forward for 3.0 with ease, to start building Z2 or Z3 quests in it 'on the fly'

my 2€...

[Drewby3]

First off, a general side note. I was discussing wether creating a thread for it, but after thinking about possible replys in said topic, which is doomed to derail because of the nature of what I would like to say, I decided not to do so. However. I have a feeling, that in the past few weeks, the niveau of the comunications has sunken to a fairly low level. Some people feel extremy offended by opinions (!) of others and start to flame or at least to troll them. Nothing happens, because, for whatever odd reasons, those members happen to be "honored"/"respected" members that can do pretty much everything they want because they are who they are. This is not only true for some of the "respected" members of course, and not for the majority of members either, but it is still true for a good few members, who are doing something I'd like to call "pesting" the threads. (And yes, I "pested" a thread myself once or twice, but I'm trying not to as much as I can.) I'm well aware that this might sound big-headed or that I might get warned for it, but I do not really care that much. We've sunken to a level that is fairly sad in some areas we really don't have to. Truth be told, it's getting less and less fun posting here on PZC. More truth be told, I even fear posting statements such as this or other honest opinions because I know that people are going to feel offended, and more important, start to flame/troll/whine/similar.
I'd like to question wether we want this to happen.
And, please do me a favor and do not comment me on this one, unless you totally have to. I will not say anything at all about this in this thread, I just decided to post it here because this thread is an example of a "pested" thead in my eyes. If there is anything you'd like to tell me, please PM me.

...But back on topic. After ZC2.5.'s final realse, I will be doing pretty much the same as I am doing right now. I'm just working on the creative front, which is my way to get along with all the bugs and such: beeing good elsewhere so I do not have to think about bugs and such at all and working in teams with people that like to think about them. I guess there'll be more projects presented here and thus more to comment on, which is something I enjoyed always (in the past): commenting on other people's work in hope to be of some constuctive help.
Edit: I agree with Plissken, by the way, and would be more than happy if ZC was capable of recreating LttP, simply because I'd be coll. My vision of the perfect Zelda-fangame-editor is one that allows you recreate every 2D Zelda title perfectly with only so much scripting as there really has to be. That'd be great, I guess.

Read what I said they maybe should make a patch that you put in Zquest that allows you to do Zelda 3 stuff read my post for more about it

I didn't say it was easy. o.o Did you read my post? I explained how people who doesn't know how to script won't be able to make any... though I was under the impression that it was fairly obvious anyway.

No, it's not easy. I can't make even the simpliest of scripts, but I'm lucky enough to have Joe123 working with me on The Hylian Phoenix, and offering his help to basically every other quest I have in production at the moment. I realize not everyone is as lucky, but one can always learn, right? Well, that's not true... I can't. I literally cannot learn how to script, because I have dyslexia with numbers (I don't know what it's called in English...) I can count, and add and so on, but when you dive into the world of multiplying, or over, I'm gonna drop out right away, cause my mind simply cannot grasp it. And no, I do not just think I have this, I have been diagnosed with it, so it's a very real thing. That, and I am stupid as a rock.

But most people don't have my problem, and from what I gather, zscript isn't the hardest language to learn in the world, so with a little time and devotion, I'm sure most of the members here could become pretty darn talented scripters. Even now I am seeing new people making some awesome scripts, and it always blows me away that it's possible to learn to see any logic behind those walls of texts, so kudos to all of you who have learned this so far, and to all of you who will in the future.

But my point still stands: Almost all of the things I see people request of ZC almost every day, is really actually possible to create at this very moment. I understand that it would be a lot more customer-friendly if everything was handed to them on a golden platter, but that's just not the case as of right now. In the end of the day, even though ZC is currently under a feature-freeze, scripting makes it possible to add new stuff in yourself, and that's why I love it so much, even if I have no idea how to use it.

my sister has that same condition and it is not a curse it is a gift don't try to get rid of it because maybe you aren't as smart as most people but you can do stuff that other people can't

[Cameron]

Are the devs still adding features to 2.5? A lot of people are making that accusation, but I have not actually known that to be true. I assumed that ended awhile ago.

[Bourkification]

Well no 'major features' as such but if you check on shardstorm.com, you can still see they are adding functions to Zscript and were adding things to the enemy editor, and editing the Large Interface.

But I do think that there focus has been more on fixing bugs of late, which is a good thing!