1303 replies to this topic

[pixcalibur]

Given the complexity of Marathon, may have some difficult bugs to fix as shown in post #1097. Tried another pass, but some of the little bugs were still there (not able to ladder onto floating platform, the 2 HP's still not accessible).

At least there's an excess of HP's to work with in case some are lost for whatever reason.

[ShadowTiger]

New Version. Added a shortcut to Enigma's Boss room when you've reached the area. A few screens before the boss, there will be a new set of stairs in the lower left corner. It's the room that had a locked southern door, and Gibdos (Mummies) in it, as well as a warp return point in the upper half of the room. Just walk toward the stairs, and the warp will trigger a matching set of stairs in F-1's first room. Good stuff.

The meat is now able to be continued to be worked upon. It's getting there.

[WireByte01]

I can't get to the Blester tower boss key. I know where it is, however, I can't fall down the black hole in F-3. I went down that single black hole tile in F-4, and now I can't reach F-2. Must be a glitch. This is the latest version (2012RC4).

Edited by WireByte01, 13 December 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

Gotcha covered. Backup and replace the quest file with that. <-- Tested it out a bunch of times. Was able to reach the boss on that version there.

[pixcalibur]

Ok, Marathon runs pretty well now. Gotta applaud you on making the level run more smoothly. Figured that was going to be a bit difficult to do.

Some more little things on testing Marathon and Deku Tree:


Minor thing here. When you go right from this point, you automatically fall into the basement. Can just put a square of land on the next screen so that you can at least go back.



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The space directly to the right is a hole, not land. Can correct it to make that space to the right actual land. I think it leads to a chest I saw further to the right



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Wondering how to get this potion. Need orange blocks down, but the only ways to this spot require blue blocks to be down. Maybe just putting a pair of switches, changing orange to blue blocks or just not having the blocks there can be considered.



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I access this with orange blocks down. However, when transitioning left to this screen or to the screen below for that matter, it automatically changes to blue blocks down, which ends up locking me in. Not sure why the automatic transition. Maybe putting blue blocks to block the transitions to the left, as there is a switch to use later on.



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I guess this just for show? Pretty sure nothing there



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Just a map, but curious why I can't push the block left. I was able to do it on earlier versions



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Anything in that chest? No way to hit it with the sword. Probably nothing given the lens didn't reveal anything.



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Stuck in this room. The bosses don't even appear now. This room should be similar to other boss rooms, which you battle once and then when going through the room again, the doors just open.

[pixcalibur]

Some more things I found in the Deku Tree:

Trying to figure out how to prevent major shortcuts in this path. Some things that can be considered
- Right side of 1F S is blocked, but can use W to shortcut boss room 1 (Lanmola and Gohma). Maybe putting some obstacle to block W access to route with diving spot and magic key. Goal is to use boss room 1 to get to E side.
- can consider star switch to block off shortcut diving spot near magic key until going around right side of E side of map.
- Consider finding a way to block off N side access to shortcut entrance, as that shortcuts to boss key and can bypass boss room 2 (Geist and Patra 3). Maybe just removing N switch near entrance.


Images of getting stuck below:

Stuck in the upper left corner after using the dive shortcut on the N side



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I think I'm trapped here. The room south is closed off to the right as it should be. Maybe putting an opening at the top where the conveyor belts are to allow the player to go up.



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Not sure what's happening here. I beat this pair of bosses and went through the dialogue. But then the battle intro and ganon dialogue just loop over and over and the doors don't open.



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Is this supposed to be a shortcut point or just a quick way out? Can't find any connecting teleporters. Also curious about the teleporter at the start of the Deku Jungle (used to take you right to the Deku Tree shortcut entrance).



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That's one odd menu screen there. Funny that you can still waste your money on the lens. Any way back to the main screen other than F6+save?

Edited by pixcalibur, 15 December 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[ShadowTiger]

> > > Awesome Release < < <


Quite a few changes since the last release. ... Because I am bored.

• Added a shop to the Elf Cave where you can buy the Lens of Truth for an exorbitant quantity of money. Because you damn well will need it. C-Dawg has balls of steel to make the player do that without the Lens of Truth. Seriously.
• Fixed up the Subscreen(s) just a little bit.
• Added a bit to the Swamp Cave to the west of the Excavation. Really proud of myself for the magical orb / conveyor puzzle. You need to physically push the switch from the southern side against the tide of the conveyor to trigger the door to open, which you can only do so while the conveyor is off after hitting either switch from afar. Neat. A pretty technologically difficult / interesting ability of ZQuest.
• Looped the End-game on the stage back to the very beginning for a "New-Game Plus" sort of thing. I doubt it'll be all that interesting.
• Started the foundation for a new area in Capital Port where you can learn the ability scrolls from The Minish Cap. (Hurricane Spin, Cross Beams, Peril Beam, Quake Hammer, Super Quake, Spin Attack. )
• Many minor bug-fixes, aesthetically and otherwise.
• Fixed up a few glaring issues with Storm Tower.
• Disabled the ladder for the Mudora Muck, the basement of Elf Cave, and a few areas in Marathon. The ladder does get kind of annoying, doesn't it.
• Added a few spots in the Deku Tree where you can use the lens of truth to see which N/S/E/W configuration you need to be on to proceed from there. Neat concept.
• Added the swamp boots to the cave west of the excavation. You can buy them from a new room, and any of those green glob things on the floor won't hurt you anymore. Consequently, I added a boatload more of them to the swamp area.
• Removed just a few enemies from the intro from Link's house to the Deku tree. Doesn't need to be that hard that there should be deaths on the way to the place, with only a boomerang.
• Swapped a room in the Deku Tree that had only a fairy item in it to a room with a guy fairy (Girl fairy?!!?! Ugh) that actually heals you whenever you approach it. It's hard to find that room, so a single exhaustible fairy seems like a pretty bad reward.

Ok, Marathon runs pretty well now. Gotta applaud you on making the level run more smoothly. Figured that was going to be a bit difficult to do.

Some more little things on testing Marathon and Deku Tree:
Minor thing here. When you go right from this point, you automatically fall into the basement. Can just put a square of land on the next screen so that you can at least go back.



=====================

I barely ever touch Marathon. There are always things I could do to make it a smoother experience. It's a hellish mix of multiple Dmaps and multiple paths that can make a person tear out their hair if they weren't the original author with the original intentions in mind.

Anyway, that spot has been fixed. Fixed quite a few little issues with that invisible maze, actually.

The space directly to the right is a hole, not land. Can correct it to make that space to the right actual land. I think it leads to a chest I saw further to the right



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Yep! Fixed.

Wondering how to get this potion. Need orange blocks down, but the only ways to this spot require blue blocks to be down. Maybe just putting a pair of switches, changing orange to blue blocks or just not having the blocks there can be considered.



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I added a trigger point in the corner of the room that also made stairs appear. Otherwise, works great. Tested it and everything.

I access this with orange blocks down. However, when transitioning left to this screen or to the screen below for that matter, it automatically changes to blue blocks down, which ends up locking me in. Not sure why the automatic transition. Maybe putting blue blocks to block the transitions to the left, as there is a switch to use later on.



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This was a side-warp error. It warped to a different (identical) screen well away from the rest of the map where the layering was appropriate to walk underneath, rather than over the screen in question. It was previously warping to the wrong configuration of yellow/blue blocks. A very simple fix.

I guess this just for show? Pretty sure nothing there



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Yeah, I have no idea what that is.

Just a map, but curious why I can't push the block left. I was able to do it on earlier versions



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That was something I recently did on purpose, actually, just so that there was one less way for the player to get themselves stuck. If it's really a wrong move on my part, I can remove that no-push-block flag.

Anything in that chest? No way to hit it with the sword. Probably nothing given the lens didn't reveal anything.



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Strangely, there wasn't anything. So I just took out the entire thing, water and all. Eh.

Stuck in this room. The bosses don't even appear now. This room should be similar to other boss rooms, which you battle once and then when going through the room again, the doors just open.

I actually fixed that this morning. Tested it out. Works great.

Images of getting stuck below:

Stuck in the upper left corner after using the dive shortcut on the N side



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Fixed! I wonder how I missed that. Thanks bunches.

I think I'm trapped here. The room south is closed off to the right as it should be. Maybe putting an opening at the top where the conveyor belts are to allow the player to go up.



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Yeah, that's a weird little path. What if I make the room with the Gleeoks beneath a regular shutter to the east, rather than a one-way shutter to the east? That way it'll open back up when the enemies are dead. The problem is, is that when you're near the bottom-center of the map, the next screen you can reach from there (If you don't take the swim warp in the room to its west) is only passable with the + thing on the north side. The screenshot you posted has the exact opposite scenario - It isn't passable if the + is North. I'm not sure what C-Dawg wanted with that area of F-1, but I'm loathe to disturb his plan.

But I did do something that might help. I added a tiny block puzzle (If anyone can't figure out the solution to that puzzle, they are literally some sort of inanimate object or a tiny rodent.) that allows you to go east, but not west, through the course of that corner of the room. I hope it helps.

Not sure what's happening here. I beat this pair of bosses and went through the dialogue. But then the battle intro and ganon dialogue just loop over and over and the doors don't open.



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Yeah those are weird. Fixed.

Is this supposed to be a shortcut point or just a quick way out? Can't find any connecting teleporters. Also curious about the teleporter at the start of the Deku Jungle (used to take you right to the Deku Tree shortcut entrance).



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I think I added the beginnings of that earlier, but lost my mind and didn't finish it. So I did. But I just finished it right now, and tested it, and it works great. It sends you to the East side, too. Though that is the only side it can send you to, considering that the only way to get to that area on F-2 in the first place is if you're on the East + side anyway.

That's one odd menu screen there. Funny that you can still waste your money on the lens. Any way back to the main screen other than F6+save?

I sent it back to a loop. Dunno what to do with the end-game, really.




Okay, now this one below is going to get interesting.

Some more things I found in the Deku Tree:

Trying to figure out how to prevent major shortcuts in this path. Some things that can be considered
- Right side of 1F S is blocked, but can use W to shortcut boss room 1 (Lanmola and Gohma). Maybe putting some obstacle to block W access to route with diving spot and magic key. Goal is to use boss room 1 to get to E side.

I'm sure I'd have to play through it a bit more to experience this myself. I'm seeing the right side of 1F South being accessible all around. What am I not seeing that you are, is my personal ponderance.

- can consider star switch to block off shortcut diving spot near magic key until going around right side of E side of map.

- Consider finding a way to block off N side access to shortcut entrance, as that shortcuts to boss key and can bypass boss room 2 (Geist and Patra 3). Maybe just removing N switch near entrance.

How does this shortcut happen?


These shortcuts are pretty interesting. Congratulations on going so in-depth as to discover them, though the Deku Tree is hard enough that if a person discovers a shortcut and "beats the system," as it were, then my hat is off to them and they certainly deserve to walk around with their pants off in public in spite of the effort made to prevent it by its original author.

Them apples. How do you like them? But yes, it's interesting to think about. When DoY can be fully scripted from the ground up and redone, whenever C gets the chance when he's retired and he's got the time of the ancients about him, he'll return and do it properly. Until then, DoY is 65 maps long, 235 Dmaps wide, and hundreds of deaths deep, usually with no hair left.

A little shortcut here or there isn't the worst thing, I think.

[pixcalibur]

Tried out the new version. Good stuff here.

91 HP's I found. I assume there at least 1 more somewhere to make a clean multiple of 4. Was there supposed to be a shop in Subrosia or something like that? Nothing there when I go in those areas

Elf cave is good now

Deku Tree, nice with the boss key only accessible from N. You can get to the room before from W, but closed door there, which is a good block.

In Deku Tree, I see the dive spots as more of a one way thing. Ok to keep dive spots, can keep one near magic key the same, but other one can position NSEW pad to block N and W paths, as one can still use the N side to slip around to the dive spot. Can keep that block at the bottom to make more of a one-way path.


Some more pictures of things I forgot to put in before:


Was this intentional? The screens are like all camouflaged with this stuff.



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Could put a switch by the Deku Tree to activate a 2 way portal to use as a shortcut. I think this was present in an earlier version.



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On the W side, kinda stuck from these 2 pictures. Maybe just having that shutter door going down stay open.





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Forgot about this one. When you go onto the dock in #1, trying to go back up leads to #2 and you basically getting stuck. #3 is if you go downward, but onto to the dock.

Edited by pixcalibur, 15 December 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Joe]

Downloaded your latest version and I am playing in R4.

Found two problems, one that completely stopped my progress.

First after winning the sword and picking up the crystal Link is stuck under the statue. While he can walk from underneath I had to return back under the statue and leave 3 or 4 times before I hit the warp taking Link back to the startup house.







Next problem occurred trying to win the 1st glove. Link cannot walk up the stairs in the following photos. This of course halts all progress.







I'm using R4. Is this correct?


Enjoy LIfe!

Thanks - Joe

[ShadowTiger]

RC4, yes, though I am seriously considering updating it to 2.5 (Just saving the quest file in 2.5, really.) so that I can play it on Windows 7. RC4's ZC player isn't even opening for me at all.

Bug fixes

[vravelo]

Hi shadow .....!
I see you made a lot of fascinating changes lately good job,, "as always"
So I'm taking another spin ....
-

RC4, yes, though I am seriously considering updating it to 2.5 (Just saving the quest file in 2.5, really.) so that I can play it on Windows 7. RC4's ZC player isn't even opening for me at all.

Bug fixes

[Joe]

Downloaded latest Bug fix. Still unable to climb the stairs.

Enjoy the Day!

Thanks - Joe

[vravelo]

Ejerm... excuse me... stated a new game and forgot where that levle2 sword is at any help?
always I do the same thanks

[ShadowTiger]

You can get the L2 Sword as soon as you get the Flippers from Lake Hylia after the Dam. A few screens to the west of the Mushroom Hideout is a small body of water. Go north, then east, and enter the cave there.

Or, you can get it for free by going into the Old Lady's Nightmare in Pulcheria Village. Smash all the pots in her house where she's knitting a sock. Easy enough.

Oddly, if you can get the L2 Sword from that pot, you can get the L3 Sword in about less than two minutes with the same equipment, if you remember where it is.

[Mister Snooze]

Well, I just looked over the level, (People always have trouble with the Dam moreso than any other level. It's odd. Maybe just because it's the first difficult'ish key-hunt.) and from the look of the situation, my best advice is to remember where the keys are that I just described. Once you raise the water level AND have gotten both of the keys, you shouldn't have any issues. There is another key in the room to the south-west of the room with the switch that raises the water level. You can just walk across the blocks to get it, then walk straight to the door you need to unlock.

The only door that you need to unlock is to get into the switch room. There are two keys accessible to you by that point. Once you raise the water level, you can immediately get the level's third key to its southwest. There are two locked doors after that; one to get to the third floor, and one to get into the boss room. But you've only used one of the level's three keys by that point, and still have one left. It'll work.

It's a clockwise path around the second floor to the third floor. Not a big level.
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I found and used both ke you describe and cannot open the door on the third level. Are you saying there is a locked door that you should not open and if so too late?