1641 replies to this topic

[Moonbread]

I'm predicting that Hard Mode is going to be more than just "less random drops and you take more damage."  Mainly because from what I've heard, Breath of the Wild is supposed to be a hard game already, having that old school jRPG style of "Looks like you walked into the wrong area, mother fucker" and getting one-shotted by stuff you're not ready for.  It's sort of already supposed to be hard mode.  So since this is behind a paywall and is taking some time for them to develop, I think that heavily implies that it's going to have a lot more effort put into it than what they did for the likes of the HD remakes and ALBW, which might mean smarter AI and putting more challenging enemies in different locations that you're not used to, and it may possibly mean that the main dungeons might be different and more challenging, like 2nd Quest/Master Quest.

 

I'm not too keen on DLC, but like, keeping things in perspective, when has Nintendo really ever released a game that was incomplete at launch at made us wait on DLC for the full experience?  Mario Kart 8 still had an amazing selection of tracks, Smash 4 still had a great roster and stage selection, and Hyrule Warriors still had an absurd amount of content, all without their respective DLC.  Breath of the Wild is a full- a massively full- adventure, with or without it.  I don't see Nintendo treading toward the ways of say, Mass Effect 3.  I feel like it was either this or the game get delayed again, at any rate, and I don't think they could count on that.

 

People sorta act like DLC is the boogeyman, but have y'all played Bethesda's games?  Because their games usually have really good DLC, well worth the price.  It's not always this inherently evil. corporate greedy thing designed to squeeze every last penny out of you, shockingly developers actually use DLC to give you more to do so you can revisit their game.  Sure, we'll see how it goes when the DLC rolls around, but Nintendo's had a pretty good track record with it so far, so I'm not expecting it to be all that disappointing.  The only thing that really irks me is that the Special/Master Editions of the game don't give those buyers this DLC.  Sure, they come with a lot of cool physical goodies, but those bundles were expensive.  Would've liked to have either one, personally, but sort of glad I didn't dip extra for either one...

[Magi_Hero]

I would be cool with nifty boss changes in Hard mode, minus the fact it's extra money.

In WoW, the hardest difficulty bosses have a different end phase or mechanic that makes them unforgiving. This would be a plus in my eyes for a real Hard Mode.

I'm not a fan of DLC, but I still front the bill sometimes.

[The Satellite]

So once upon a time, I was fairly... not a fan of DLC. No matter the game. I always felt like I was being cheated, having bought a game and expecting that to be it, only for more content to be released for an additional price. I've stated as much earlier in this very thread, even. Over time, though, I've softened up to the idea after playing more games, including some of Nintendo's own. You all act like DLC is this new thing for Nintendo, but remember Mario Kart 8? Hyrule Warriors? Fire Emblem Awakening? It probably goes back further than those as well but I can't say for certain. And you know what? You got tons of content for a small fee in all of those cases. It's a fairly good deal, especially in the case of MK8: $13 to buy both of the DLC packs got you 16 courses and six new characters. Considering the full game had 32 courses, you're basically playing a fifth of the full game's price extra to get nearly 50% as much content as the full game added onto it.

 

Even looking at other games has expanded my view, like Elder Scrolls with their story quest expansions, which add a decent amount of content as well. I can't help but feel like the same will be true of the DLC content here, but obviously I can't say for certain. And $20 isn't much. I was very shocked to hear the DLC announcement but after letting it set in... I realized that this was fine. I've seen the way DLC expansion works in Elder Scrolls, I think it works, I think it can work here. And again, Nintendo has a very good value on DLC, so I'm not really worried.

 

However I will relent on the "hard mode" deal, as well as the apparent inability to only purchase one pack, which is odd, especially since the aforementioned Nintendo games with DLC has options to purchase everything separately. I guess for me it will depend on whether or not it's actually a reworked version of the game and not just a hero mode. That's the big deal. I will also relent on it being strange you can't just buy one pack or the other, instead of being forced to buy the packs when past games let you buy them individually.

 

Also if the story expansion turns out to be a playable Zelda campaign I am so into it.

 

Nintendo doesn't understand "good ideas".

 
That's quite the hyperbole.

[Anthus]

Twilight Princess HD showed us that Nintendo isn't afraid to lock a minor setting behind a paywall in the form of the Ganondorf amiibo.

 

I mean, I have pretty mixed feelings about DLC. In other words, I hate it, unless it is really, really good. I'm hoping Nintendo doesn't botch this. I get that DLC is the thing to do now, but that doesn't mean I have to like it, or view it as a fair, or reasonable business model. MK8 did it right. I can't think of many other games. I'd say Hyrule Warriors, but that game was so repetitive (but still fun) that is doesn't really feel like truly new stuff to me.

 

Like if the DLC is new dungeons, or quests, that's cool, but if it is just some costume pack shit, with a hard mode, I'm not buying it.

[LinktheMaster]

When it comes to this DLC, I think my main annoyance is how few details Nintendo is telling us and expecting us to drop $20 on it. What are the day 1 helpful items? What exactly changes in the hard mode? How many hours do they expect to add to the game with the story and dungeon? These are pretty big important things that would help people justify paying the money for it. That being said, despite all of that, Nintendo actually is being about the best company around when it comes to prepaid DLC. Lots of companies like Ubisoft and EA have been completely vague about what you get, just saying something like "content will be added each month." And lots of companies have undermined that by ending up giving half of the content away for free anyway.

 

So, in the end, I don't mind the premise of DLC, but Nintendo hasn't done a good job of selling this to me yet. In the modern gaming world, Majora's Mask honestly would have probably been DLC for OoT, for example. It's just how things are nowadays, and having huge expansive quest and story packs can honestly be worth it because it can help the fans get additional content they want without the 5 year wait time that BotW gave us. So, I very well may get this, but I'll probably wait until the last DLC pack comes out, then pay for it all then if I think it's worth it.

[Anthus]

So, in the end, I don't mind the premise of DLC, but Nintendo hasn't done a good job of selling this to me yet. In the modern gaming world, Majora's Mask honestly would have probably been DLC for OoT, for example. It's just how things are nowadays, and having huge expansive quest and story packs can honestly be worth it because it can help the fans get additional content they want without the 5 year wait time that BotW gave us. So, I very well may get this, but I'll probably wait until the last DLC pack comes out, then pay for it all then if I think it's worth it.

 

That's something I was thinking about in the past. I mean.. if the DD didn't flop, it would have been "DLC", except, not downloaded, but it's the same concept. Even Master Quest was gonna be "DLC". I would have been happy with either of those additions being DLC in a 2017 landscape, cause they both add significant content to the game... Well, Majora's Mask does. One could argue moving dungeon objects around is skimpy, but it does make a new experience. I have personally always viewed MM as an extension of OoT anyway. An outside story. A Zelda Gaiden. 

[Moonbread]

Well, the thing I liked about Master Quest's dungeons is that the overall effect of moving some stuff around made it so that you had to tackle the dungeons in entirely different ways.  Dodongo's Cavern, for example, had you go straight up to the top and you had to work your way down, which was the entire inverse of the original.  Cleverly changing how dungeons are navigated is a nice change that can be done with surprisingly little, as it proved.  I still have no idea what to do in Master Quest's Water Temple! *runs*

 

Also, yeah, I pretty much agree with LtM.  When don't I agree with that guy?

[Anthus]

Well, the thing I liked about Master Quest's dungeons is that the overall effect of moving some stuff around made it so that you had to tackle the dungeons in entirely different ways.  Dodongo's Cavern, for example, had you go straight up to the top and you had to work your way down, which was the entire inverse of the original.  Cleverly changing how dungeons are navigated is a nice change that can be done with surprisingly little, as it proved.  I still have no idea what to do in Master Quest's Water Temple! *runs*

 

Also, yeah, I pretty much agree with LtM.  When don't I agree with that guy?

 

Yeah, MQ is, imo a good example of a "minimalist" approach to making "DLC", if you will. I enjoyed it, especially in the 3DS version. I forget exactly what to do in the water temple, but I think I remember it being something pretty obtuse. If you are spoiler conscious, I think it has something to do with

possible MQ Water Temple spoilers if I'm not completely wrong

using bombs, or arrows to hit some switches that are behind wall decorations. Namely in rooms where you need to de-activate flames or go up. These would give you rupees in the original. OoT kinda borrowed from ALttP with the wall decorations often hiding rupees, but in MQ, they can hide switches. Not quite as obtuse as walk-thru walls in the second quest in Z1, but still.. how would you know?

Fire Temple also has you taking a radically different path (i.e. almost reverse). And gotta love Jabu Jabu's Belly, and the deity's greatly elevated taste for Hylian beef (yay, cow switches).

 

Gaaaah~ Can you guys tell I'm bored? Just a little over two weeks, guys... Just 17 more days!

 

EDIT: You know what? If the DLC was something comparable to a Master Quest, or 2nd Quest, I'd be okay with that.

[MarinaraSauce]

Honestly, I don't understand why people are so resistant to DLC. This is stuff they actually don't have time to finish in the next 2.5 weeks, and unless all of you want this damn game to get delayed again, they can either have it as DLC or not at all. $20 isn't unreasonable for DLC, and it all seems like it'll be nice stuff to have. Either buy it or don't, but if you're mad that video games aren't like they were in "the good old days" (where games consistently came out with a considerable amount of content cut but didn't have a way to add it in), then frankly you just come off as resistant to change.

[Norzan]

I honestly don't know how feel about this. I don't hate DLC, it can actually be awesome if done correctly like some RPGs having expansions with tons of new content. It just feels odd that a main series Zelda game is going to have a season pass.

 

I am curious about the new original story in the season pass, but i most likely going to wait to see what aumont of content does the season pass have.

[Matthew]

if you're mad that video games aren't like they were in "the good old days" (where games consistently came out with a considerable amount of content cut but didn't have a way to add it in), then frankly you just come off as resistant to change.

I think this view of peoples' opinions on DLC is a bit of a strawman. Recent industry trends have shown how publishers and developers use greedy and shallow DLC for their games, and people have been burned so many times by shady DLC practices that its only fair they be skeptical of it. It's perfectly fine for people to have an aversion to a change they could reasonably think is for the worse. Of course, immediately writing off all DLC as awful is silly, but having some healthy skepticism is perfectly fine. :/

 

Examples of bad DLC could include:

-Destiny

-Sims DLC

-The season pass DLC's and wallet-gouging DLC practices from publishers like EA

 

Honestly, I'm not keen on the idea of DLC in Zelda, but I want to see more until I reach a verdict.

Edited by Matthew, 14 February 2017 - 09:24 PM.

[MarinaraSauce]

I think this view of peoples' opinions on DLC is a bit of a strawman. Recent industry trends have shown how publishers and developers use greedy and shallow DLC for their games, and people have been burned so many times by shady DLC practices that its only fair they be skeptical of it. It's perfectly fine for people to have an aversion to a change they could reasonably think is for the worse. Of course, immediately writing off all DLC as awful is silly, but having some healthy skepticism is perfectly fine. :/

Of course there are companies that use DLC as a way of siphoning money from consumers, but there are always people doing that with everything. Perhaps I should've worded it better, but my point was that given their current track record with DLC (MK8, SSB4, Hyrule Warriors), to say that Nintendo is being scummy for including things as DLC for this game would seem like a pretty uninformed speculation. Like I said, they want this stuff in the game to give consumers as much content as possible, and the only two ways of doing that would be either to make it DLC or to delay the game another 5+ months, which would almost certainly be a worse option.

[Shane]

I'm paying for Switch, a pro controller, the game itself, the amiibos and now DLC which got announced before the game was even released? Come on Nintendo, stop being greedy (I'm paying up to around 400-500 dollars just for one "complete" Zelda game). Most of the first pack and bonus stuff sounds like it should of been in the full game in the first place. The only pack that sounds actually worthwhile is the second pack but that depends on just how substantial it really is and considering only one dungeon is being added, I'd say the new story isn't going to be much at all, I imagine it's just Zelda's perspective on things and nothing entirely new. Imagine if there was one giant DLC pack containing a "Dark World" version of Hyrule, with several new main dungeons and an additional new story. That'd be cool, but alas.

 

Meh, I might pass on this one to vote with my wallet. Ooor at least wait until I see what this "new story" and "new dungeon" hold. Just imagine if Twilight Princess or Wind Waker was in 2017, their respective "cave of trials" would be behind DLC. Ridiculous.

[The Satellite]

I'm not so sure about Wind Waker's since that one's actually required for the main story.

 

Honestly I'm not as fussed about it because there's tons of content already. I do have some mild reservations, but in the grand scheme of things, they'll likely just be nice side dishes to an intense eighteen-course meal.

 

On second thought I should pass, the dinner alone's gonna kill me.

[HylianGlaceon]

Of course there are companies that use DLC as a way of siphoning money from consumers, but there are always people doing that with everything. Perhaps I should've worded it better, but my point was that given their current track record with DLC (MK8, SSB4, Hyrule Warriors), to say that Nintendo is being scummy for including things as DLC for this game would seem like a pretty uninformed speculation. 

You mean how they charged $20 for the DLC packs on the Wii U ($60) then ported it to the 3DS ($40) with all of the DLC for free and then added exclusive content you can't have all of on the Wii U despite paying twice the price? Oh and the costume packs were sold specifically to screw the people who pre-ordered the Wii U game so you had to buy costumes you already had? I get it was more Koei Tecmo doing this, but that was a really scummy move for Nintendo to allow that to happen.

 

Smash4 and Mario Kart 8 were done fine though. Just wish we had an option to get the Deluxe characters on the Wii U version for Mario Kart 8, but that's part of their big selling point for the Switch Port I suppose so that isn't going to happen.