667 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Steel]

Tegra choips are pretty capable iirc, Nvidia's Shield tablet can play a fair few PC games with reasonable visuals. I believe a new Tegra chip is coming out later this year, which might be what Nintendo is waiting for to finish their product.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 26 July 2016 - 11:35 PM.

[SyrianBallaS]

Can't be too sure on this but one of the executives of Ubisoft was talking with the Nintendo guys and thought the NX would appeal to casual gamers, which are the majority right now.

Edited by SyrianBallaS, 26 July 2016 - 11:39 PM.

[The Satellite]

More leaks. Confirmed best system.

[DashSim]

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to treat these leaks as though they are unconditionally correct.

 

I feel strongly that the predictions of NX failing are off the mark. Like, not even slightly. Wildly. In fact, this leak paints the picture of NX as perhaps Nintendo's smartest, safest possible move. It'll double down on their strengths while alleviating or avoiding their weaknesses.

 

Not only does it seem to not be set for failure, it seems almost guaranteed to succeed.

 

The most important aspect to this is the single, unified library. My own personal guess was that they'd accomplish this via releasing home console and portable form factors running the same hardware and mobile architecture under a single brand name. But a hybrid with a single form that can be portable or connect to a television via a dock works to achieve the same end (and actually doesn't discount the possibility of releasing dedicated console or portable forms alongside it or later on). Not splitting their game development teams in half to support two platforms at once is a massive benefit that can't be easily overstated. NX should be able to achieve the strongest, largest, most versatile first party lineup of any system to date.

 

The rest is a thoughtful refocus on what works for them and shaking off what doesn't. The relatively high prices of their recent systems have been detrimental to them, so refocus on affordability. Chasing after the tech-oriented, high-spec crowd, particularly in light of Neo and Scorpio, would be a fool's errand (the strongest console in a given generation is rarely the highest selling, anyway), so don't bother. Dropping backwards compatibility (a feature that people say they want but which doesn't impact sales greatly) for a system that bombed as hard as Wii U and is as much of a dead-end on all conceivable levels as Wii U is, as a sacrifice to fully dedicate NX to its goals, is the right choice. Their portable systems consistently outsell their consoles, generally by a huge margin, and, hey, look at what NX partially is.

 

I mean, none of this matters much if the execution of the thing is botched in some way. If there's no killer games near launch (Zelda aside) or early marketing is terrible, it'll lose momentum and that would be unlikely to be regained. As such a new concept, it could have some other unexpected flaw. And I have reservations about the form of the thing as described in the leak; I can only envision it as somewhat cumbersome and unwieldy, which would work against their apparent goals. But we haven't really seen this system yet, and in our very fuzzy image of what NX is, thus far, the concept looks like exactly what's needed.

[NoeL]

I think this officially marks Nintendo dropping out of the home console race entirely in order to pursue their own thing, and I think there are appreciable points being made on both sides of the table... but DashSim is closer to the money IMO.

 

I don't expect the NX to be wildly successful, and I still think it'll be completely overshadowed by Sony and Microsoft, but trying to consolidate their handheld and console market is potentially a good move. And I say potentially because while I'm sure Nintendo is expecting the consolidation to raise the NX to the 3DS-level success, it might instead bring it down to the Wii U-level failure. Part of why the 3DS is so successful is because its graphics suck. While that sounds counter-intuitive, games with sucky graphics are cheaper and quicker to produce, meaning the system builds a large library fairly fast and there's a lower barrier to entry. This also means shovelware galore, but you take the good with the bad. Nintendo completely dropped the ball with the Wii U by underestimating how much longer it would take them to develop HD games, so releasing a handheld with graphical fidelity at or above the Wii U is going to have a big effect on the size of the library. This is pretty much why the Vita never took off.

 

Thankfully though, unlike the Vita the NX won't have any real competition... except the 3DS. So really it's just like the Vita. And that's a big problem. Nintendo NEEDS to very aggressively try to discontinue the 3DS if the NX is going to succeed, and actively cutting down their biggest money maker is going to hurt. If consumers are slow to adopt the NX (which, after the Wii U, is very possible) then developers will be reluctant to move. They'll stick with the 3DS, the NX will become a wasteland like the Wii U and the system will fail. In that sense I do believe early reports that claimed the NX would only cannibalise Nintendo's existing market. And I could be completely wrong here, but is there even a market demand for a new handheld? I haven't really heard anyone wishing they had a better 3DS, but I'm probably just old and out of the loop.

 

So with THAT said, I think it would be a fantastic move if the NX was backwards compatible with the 3DS (fuck the Wii U - no one cares). If the NX is a single-screen machine then this can't realistically happen, but from a business standpoint that would make the most sense IMO.

 

One thing's for sure though - don't expect to be playing Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed on the NX - at least not their console counterparts anyway. Western AAA developers are going to avoid this thing like the plague. The only thing you'll see from them are shovelware and, at best, heavily watered-down ports. In other words, as far as the "console" side of the NX goes it'll be the second coming of the Wii. Or arguably WORSE because it won't have the gimmicky carnival shovelware that the Wii's motion controls brought in (maybe that's better?).

 

To end on a positive though, there's a good chance Japanese devs are going to love this thing. If Nintendo decides to have unprecedented focus on localising Japanese games for the international market then this could be great for all you anime fans on prom night lovers of Japanese media. If.

[Koh]

I think what would really help them also is large support for indie developers.  This has gained a huge following over the past years, and the success of popular indie games like Terraria, Minecraft or Shovel Knight can help sell more units.

[DashSim]

They're totally going to murder the 3DS and Wii U once NX is out. It's time to move on from them. Wii U because it never took off, and the 3DS because that system, while successful, is getting pretty long in the tooth at this point and it's nearing the end of its natural life. They talk about their new systems being third pillars (I assume because it's bad business to admit the system you're currently selling on store shelves is a lame duck), but it never happens. 3DS and Wii U will have their swan songs in the form of a couple more first party games, and then they'll be done.

 

I totally agree that, if you're doing backwards compatibility with anything, it makes way more sense to do it for the 3DS. It's a less powerful system and is surely easier to get working on NX from a cost and engineering standpoint, it's a far more successful system with more relevance to consumers, and the game media for NX could very well take the shape of DS/3DS carts, foregoing the need for any extra slots or drives. BC isn't an enormous selling point, but if they could stick it in without compromising anything else, it's not a bad point in its favor. And, yeah, they'd just have to work out the two screen issue, which may or may not be feasible.

 

I'm kinda hoping that they port their best Wii U games to NX, though. Tropical Freeze, Pikmin 3, 3D World, etc. There's so many games on the system that deserve a far wider audience than the Wii U was capable of giving them.

 

I'm expecting a fairly strong first party release schedule for NX. Nintendo has been restructuring and merging their various software and hardware teams for efficiency for a while now. Most of their staff should be accustomed to HD development. Part of the purpose of their radical new hardware approach is, according to all available information, to build a larger library, faster. Several of their key teams haven't produced a game in years, and should be primed to put out significant releases early in NX's life. If they're not ready on the game lineup front at this point, then I could only imagine something horrible has happened behind the scenes.

 

As far as third party support: Yeah, I think that ship has sailed on the big western stuff. I don't feel there's much there for them in trying to court the huge, high-budget western third party games. Their audience is firmly established elsewhere and Nintendo's own audience isn't particularly receptive to them. I mean, if they came along, I'm sure Nintendo (and some fans) would be thrilled, but I doubt they're going to actively pursue them. The sort of third party support that compliments Nintendo's games and systems are more along the lines of the new Sonic that's already been announced for NX, or Skylanders, or pretty much the whole the indie scene, or the Japanese support that Nintendo already receives on 3DS. If they're lucky, they'll even inherit the Vita's support - I doubt there's going to be another Sony portable for those developers to move to any time soon (or, uh, ever).

 

 

You know I keep telling myself to make smaller posts in this thread but then I have too much fun

Edited by DashSim, 28 July 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[Moonbread]

Yeah, it's sort of baffling that people think western 3rd party support would save Nintendo when... no one actually gives a shit about that. Nintendo doesn't need Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, DOOM, etc... because people don't need a 2nd PS4. Nintendo needs to focus more on what it can do to be different from Sony and Microsoft. The Wii U had strong third party support when it started, but it didn't dwindle because the system has bad hardware, it did badly because those games didn't appeal to Nintendo's audience, and people who already like those games had a dedicated console to play them on. There was no point in wasting time and effort.

Having the NX be a hybrid system is a good move because it means Nintendo can stop competing with itself. Maintaining both a console and handheld means that work is not only divided between the two, but that there's also overbearing overlap. Imagine if they'd not needed to make Mario Kart 7 and 8, or develop 2 versions of Smash 4. Nintendo can start bolstering all their first party work onto one system instead of two, and along with plenty of Japanese third party support, they'll have something different and more their own, instead of foolishly trying to copy the competition.

[Koh]

I was strictly talking about indie stuff.  Even Square Enix realized how huge it was and are allowing indie devs to get things published through them.  Nintendo had the 3DS eshop, but that's about it, it needs to keep up.

[Cukeman]

Yeah, it's sort of baffling that people think western 3rd party support would save Nintendo when... no one actually gives a shit about that. Nintendo doesn't need Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, DOOM, etc... because people don't need a 2nd PS4.

 

   The point is that without all those 3rd party games on the Nintendo, you get a tiny library so people end up buying a PS4 instead of a Nintendo, because it has a better library. If both systems had large libraries then it would become a matter of first party vs. first party content, and then more people might buy a Nintendo instead of a PS4.

   Your argument is forgetting that Nintendo has been suffering since the N64 because it lost so many developers to Sony. They were doing better in that regard on the GCN, then the Wiimote and Wii hardware took another step back in that same area. If a large library is not important to anyone then why isn't the WiiU a monstrous success?

Edited by Cukeman, 28 July 2016 - 08:08 PM.

[TheLegend_njf]

I'm kinda with Scootaloo about Nintendo not needing the games that's on the PS4 and Xbox One. 

 

Third party titles like these drives traditional consoles but only hinders Nintendo consoles. But what I don't agree with is Nintendo trying to compete with the iPhone by trying to aim for the same people they had when the Wii was successful. Sorry, won't happen. (Not saying that scoot said this, it's just a general conclusion I have about Nintendo)

 

I believe Nintendo needs to stop it's identity crisis and become a fully dedicated children's console. Because let's get real, who would be their competition? Alienating parents with violent launch titles like Zombi U and Ninja Gaiden 3 was never the answer for them. 

 

I'm sorry if people don't agree with me, but Nintendo has the stigma of being a children's console. Why not embrace it considering they'd literally have no competition?

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 29 July 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[Cukeman]

For the record, stuff like Mario is "all-ages" not "children's".

[Moonbread]

I feel like you completely missed the part where I said that having just one dedicated system instead of a console AND a handheld means that they'd have a much bigger 1st party library rather than two split ones, meaning we might not have to wait several years for a new big Zelda every time, for example; and the devs who work on something won't have to worry about making something similar for the handheld counterpart.  That, and part of the Wii U's drought was that a lot of their devs weren't used to the quality jump between the Wii and Wii U, which they didn't account for how much time that might take.  They're used to it now.

 

Rather than trying to be like "Why you should own an NX instead of an XBox One/PS4," it should be more like "Why you should get an NX.  Period."  They should be trying to ride with the waves, not go against them.  I had a Nintendo and a Sega Genesis when I was a kid and it was really cool because they were two very distinct systems.  I didn't own both because they had similar libraries with some minor differences. (Actually I owned both because my mom decided we should, but bah, technicalities.  My mom thought Sonic the Hedgehog looked cool.)

[Cukeman]

I still feel like first party only is the definition of a small library.

[NoeL]

Yeah, it's sort of baffling that people think western 3rd party support would save Nintendo when... no one actually gives a shit about that. Nintendo doesn't need Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, DOOM, etc... because people don't need a 2nd PS4. Nintendo needs to focus more on what it can do to be different from Sony and Microsoft.

I'm with Cukeman here. If Nintendo HAD Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, DOOM, etc. then people might be more inclined to buy a Nintendo over Sony/Microsoft as their console of choice. When people have to choose one or the other they usually don't bother with Nintendo because of its inferior library, but with a stronger library it would sell better. They wouldn't be buying a "2nd PS4", they'd be buying a "1st Nintendo".

 

I think that would be a stronger business decision, but Nintendo don't seem particularly interested in "adult" gaming. So rather than compete in a race they don't even want to be a part of they've decided to do their own thing. That's not necessarily a bad or wrong decision, and they're welcome to chase whatever demographic they want - I even think it's cool that they try new things - but I think they could come back to dominate the gaming market if they really wanted to.

 

The Wii U had strong third party support when it started, but it didn't dwindle because the system has bad hardware, it did badly because those games didn't appeal to Nintendo's audience, and people who already like those games had a dedicated console to play them on. There was no point in wasting time and effort.

It was more the latter. It wasn't that those games didn't appeal to Nintendo's audience, but that the people that they appealed to already played them years ago.

 

It's also no secret that third party games generally perform poorly on the Wii U, but I don't believe that's because Nintendo consumers aren't interested, but rather those that ARE interested in those third party games most likely have a better system to play them on. If Nintendo released a competitive system then this section of Nintendo consumers wouldn't need to own a second console - they could just buy the Nintendo and get all their gaming in one place. In this case third party games WOULD sell well on the Nintendo because those people wouldn't be buying them for a different system.

 

A huge chunk of modern gamers are adults that grew up with Nintendo systems, and even though they don't care that much about Nintendo anymore would happily buy a Nintendo system if it offered the best of both worlds. What Nintendo needs to be wary of, and what may already be too late, is that now there's also a huge chunk of gamers that grew up on Sony systems, and Sony have developed decent first party franchises themselves. So a lot of people are going to stick with Sony (and Microsoft too, to a lesser extent) for Ratchet and Clank, Twisted Metal, Uncharted and other Sony-exclusive titles. Nintendo needed to be competitive this generation, and they failed miserably. Maybe they also believed it was too late to win back the "core" gaming crowd.