123 replies to this topic

[The Satellite]

Well everything I would've said has been said, so I'll just— holy shit guys watch out it's a shark!

 

[Aevin]

My only fear is that Zelda Shark could hack into quest project demos, and pretty not only discover, but reveal everything the quest author is doing. Leaving projects completely exposed. 

I don't mean to keep bringing this up, but this exact thing happened to me, with no ZeldaShark involved. It's best to just assume people can crack your passwords and take appropriate precautions.

[Koh]

That's how people should approach everything.  Nothing is 100% secure.  Especially the graphics.  Like, for example, who needs the tileset for the graphics, when you can just take a bunch of screenshots and crop the tiles out yourself?  Probably the way some graphics were ripped from emulators, for those who don't know how to perform a graphics dump.  There are a million and one different ways to do things besides the straightforward way.

Edited by Koh, 31 May 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[anikom15]

That's called the analogue hole.

Edited by anikom15, 31 May 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Geoffrey]

Honestly, guys.  We don't have even the legal right to use most of the graphics that we use.  Most of the quests in the database belong more to Nintendo than they do to us.

 

Get off your high horses.  If you don't like the program, don't use it--and don't pretend that you have the right for your work not to be violated when it would never exist without Nintendo's work having been violated.

[Koh]

That's called the analogue hole.

I just looked that up.  I didn't know there was a term for this...

 

Well anyway, just goes to show that this isn't anything new.

[Ventus]

Honestly, guys.  We don't have even the legal right to use most of the graphics that we use.  Most of the quests in the database belong more to Nintendo than they do to us.

 

Get off your high horses.  If you don't like the program, don't use it--and don't pretend that you have the right for your work not to be violated when it would never exist without Nintendo's work having been violated.

Quoted for truth. It seems people are getting to high on the high horses.

 

Anyways, I'm glad this program has come in existence. Now I can tackle some older quest which are broken in 2.5  

[Shoelace]

So, what if I don't want cheats in my game. It is funny because I have been pondering a way to script that if cheats are used it causes my game to brick. Lol. Cruel but true.

[Koh]

Even if you didn't want it, people would find a way to put them in.  It's no different from GameShark.  All that does is constantly update the value at a memory location every frame.  

[anikom15]

There's nothing illegal about modifying a program in memory (it usually voids warranty if it exists). However, most free countries have 'Right to Privacy' laws in which case viewing an encrypted file without permission (i.e. a passworded QST) is illegal.

Just want to throw that out there.

[Aevin]

Honestly, guys.  We don't have even the legal right to use most of the graphics that we use.  Most of the quests in the database belong more to Nintendo than they do to us.

 

Get off your high horses.  If you don't like the program, don't use it--and don't pretend that you have the right for your work not to be violated when it would never exist without Nintendo's work having been violated.

Ah, Geoffrey ...  I don't know if you could have possibly put that in a more insulting way. Putting down people for caring about their creative projects seems so at odds with the person who so kindly encouraged me when I was feeling depressed over my writing.

 

There's something to be said for derivative works. Using some of Nintendo's resources and ideas doesn't mean you're ripping them off. I think of it as paying loving homage, and to think of it otherwise feels like it spreads a nasty feeling over Zelda Classic as a whole. Regardless of what Nintendo elements are used, people put a lot of effort into game design, at the very least, and many people include custom graphics, music, programming, and more. It seems immensely childish to claim that those things have no value, that we should just expect them to have no respect because we dared to assemble them in a framework originally created by someone else. I think it's common courtesy to credit Nintendo, as well as Armageddon Games, in any quest, so it's not like you're stealing these things and saying you made them. Just as I think it's common courtesy to give respect to the creators of original content and ask permission to use their resources.

 

In my current project, I'm creating almost every sprite myself. Every enemy, every weapon, virtually every tile is original. I'm scripting things that alter the basic way the game functions, with almost no items based on the existing system.  Hmm ... but the underlying program, while created from scratch, still imitates the Zelda engine. And I guess I'm not changing most of the sound effects. So clearly, I shouldn't be the least bit bothered if someone copies everything I've done without permission and claims it as their own.

 

I know this isn't exactly on the topic of cheating programs. In fact, the possibility of people ripping graphics isn't the thing that bothers me about the program. But I believe to say that people have no claim to the work they've put countless hours into producing merely because it's in the framework of a fan game is extremely misguided.
 

[Koh]

 

I know this isn't exactly on the topic of cheating programs. In fact, the possibility of people ripping graphics isn't the thing that bothers me about the program. But I believe to say that people have no claim to the work they've put countless hours into producing merely because it's in the framework of a fan game is extremely misguided.
 

Good luck explaining that to the courts, should Nintendo decide to sue, for example.  You can claim the Fair Use clause, but that only gets you so far.  Your chances of winning over that kerfuffle are minuscule.

 

Why do you think fan projects like Chrono Resurrection were stopped dead in their tracks?  They made all the models theirself, remixed the official tracks to sound higher quality, and did all their own code.  The big boss, Square Enix, however, still laid the ban hammer down on them with a Cease and Desist.  It doesn't matter how much control you THINK you have over derivative fan works, the big boss still has the final say in what's allowed to happen with it.

 

So what do you do about it?  For starters, I'd say go original.  You don't have to deal with problems like that; they can't sue you over content you created that's not directly based on copyrighted ips or copyrighted assets.  Make a Legend of Thelma, featuring the hero Mink.

Edited by Koh, 31 May 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Aevin]

I don't really care about the courts. I'm not likely to be sued for anything I make here. But, incidentally, I think courts would support at least this much: Even if you used Nintendo resources, the original resources you made yourself don't belong to Nintendo. Even if Zelda Classic were shut down completely, you'd still have claim to those resources and could use them elsewhere. What I'm taking issue with here is people implying that using them in a fangame somehow invalidates your claim to them.

[Koh]

It does in the eyes of the law.  Even the custom Link I've put on hiatus while I work on commissions is subject to Nintendo's whim.  Why?  It's their copyrighted IP and their copyrighted character.  Just because I drew them doesn't mean I can use them without any issues.  What I CAN do, however, is change his hair, outfit, or even just his race and make him a fox, and be just fine.  

 

That's the basic gist of it all.  With the Zelda mask, you're in hot water.  With a simple change, you're easily on solid land.  Like I said, make a Legend of Thelma with the hero Mink, and your own enemies based on the Zelda enemies, but not graphically, and your own music and sounds, and there you go, you've defeated the big boss.

[Aevin]

I think we're kind of saying the same thing, just a bit differently. Even if you make a blond elf boy, you don't have to call him Link. Make a few minor changes, and it's your own work, and Nintendo has no say over it.

 

Hmm ...  This is an interesting topic, but I think we've derailed the topic of cheating programs enough. If anyone wants to continue this, might I suggest we start a new topic?