4847 replies to this topic

[kurt91]

Just finished Super Paper Mario today. It wasn't bad, but it had several problems that I just don't see how they could have been overlooked in production. I mean, one of the big things to the game is that you can swap between four characters, each with different abilities. However, this only means that late-game levels have you go through the menu to switch characters constantly, and it interrupts the flow of the level far too much. The menu to do so involves hitting the 1 and 2 buttons at the same time, and I constantly found myself accidentally doing the wrong thing because it didn't register one of the buttons. It would have been better if it was just Mario and the other character's abilities were just given to him throughout the game, like the normal Pixls.

Too much of the game was spent backtracking and it felt as though they were just trying to drag the game out. I finally got annoyed and used a walkthrough as a map for the last couple worlds and Flipside/Flopside just to cut that stuff down a bit. Peach's gameplay made things too easy with that impenetrable umbrella she's got, cutting a lot of boss fights down to "hold the down button until you have an opening, attack, and repeat." The EXP boost you get from shaking the remote when you land on an enemy was stupid and I spent the entire game without doing it at all. Also, why on earth was FP taken out of the game mechanics? Without that, the game lost a lot of it's RPG mechanics, even reducing every item in the game to "additional type of attack", that became useless after Chapter 2, or "recover HP and poison", which shouldn't ever be needed since it's a side-scrolling game and you should be able to avoid attacks enough to not need to heal until the world was finished. I mean, most Mario games give you a power-up to bring you up to 2 HP. I finished this game with over 50.

To be absolutely honest, as much as I wanted to like the game, it just didn't have the same charm as the other Paper Mario games. The sense of humor the series is known for seemed to vanish halfway through, and without that, the level design made the whole game seem like a chore to do. It was one of those games where it had a lot of potential to be really great, it's just that the developers didn't quite know how to get there.

[Russ]

I must be the only one who liked SPM. I mean granted, I pretty much dislike RPGs, so the first two games bored me to death. But SPM was fun. It wasn't so much an RPG as a platformer with RPG elements. Switching between characters only takes about 3 seconds, and isn't something you need to constantly be doing anyways. As for trying to drag the game out, the only time I can think of where it did that was that one level in world 2. Breaking the Bank. Gah. But otherwise, it all felt pretty solid to me. Say what you will, but I thought the removal of FP made sense. It just wouldn't really fit in well in a platformer game. And finally, on the note about the sense of humor... I might sort of agree there. It started out very humorous, but it made sense that, as the plot progressed, the atmosphere of the game got darker. But that's just my opinion.

As for me, I've plowed through all the main Half Life games now (thank goodness episode 2 had a good ending; I don't think I could last the wait if it were a really bad cliffhanger like some of the other games), and I'm having a go at Opposing Force right now. Which is actually much better than I'd expected it would be. It seems to have learned from the first game, improving on everything. The Barnacle hookshot... good gosh that thing is awesome. Why didn't it come back for Half Life 2?

[Giggidy]

I must be the only one who liked SPM. I mean granted, I pretty much dislike RPGs, so the first two games bored me to death. But SPM was fun. It wasn't so much an RPG as a platformer with RPG elements. Switching between characters only takes about 3 seconds, and isn't something you need to constantly be doing anyways. As for trying to drag the game out, the only time I can think of where it did that was that one level in world 2. Breaking the Bank. Gah. But otherwise, it all felt pretty solid to me. Say what you will, but I thought the removal of FP made sense. It just wouldn't really fit in well in a platformer game. And finally, on the note about the sense of humor... I might sort of agree there. It started out very humorous, but it made sense that, as the plot progressed, the atmosphere of the game got darker. But that's just my opinion.

The control problems and waggle gimmicks are because, well, it's a Wii game. If you had a proper controller, this wouldn't have happened.

As for me, I loved SPM, and aside from the control scheme issues I've never seen any criticism of it that doesn't amount to "They changed it now it sucks." Sure it's different but that doesn't necessarily mean it's worse. Probably the most pleasantly surprising part is it was Nintendo's first real attempt at a deeper story that actually succeeds. Some of the stuff (mostly the Light Prognosticus) doesn't really work, but you only need to look at Skyward Sword to see how this sort of thing can go horribly, horribly wrong. Well written character lines (even when they aren't trying to be funny)? An understanding of proper pacing? A villain with a motivation other than "BWAR HAR HAR I R EBULZ?"

[Moonbread]

Everyone automatically hates SPM because it's not like the first two Paper Mario games. That's it, honestly. Ask beyond that, and most people don't have a real reason. Hint: play it like it's not supposed to be like the first two in the series, and it's pretty awesome.

[Bayta]

I just got a copy of Monster Party. I... I just fought an 8-bit shrimp, onion ring, and corn dogs (They look like corn dogs, anyway, I's difficult to tell with the NES)...

I just... I caaaaaaaaaaaan't.

Edited by Beta Link, 28 September 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Orithan]

The control problems and waggle gimmicks are because, well, it's a Wii game. If you had a proper controller, this wouldn't have happened.

As for me, I loved SPM, and aside from the control scheme issues I've never seen any criticism of it that doesn't amount to "They changed it now it sucks." Sure it's different but that doesn't necessarily mean it's worse. Probably the most pleasantly surprising part is it was Nintendo's first real attempt at a deeper story that actually succeeds. Some of the stuff (mostly the Light Prognosticus) doesn't really work, but you only need to look at Skyward Sword to see how this sort of thing can go horribly, horribly wrong. Well written character lines (even when they aren't trying to be funny)? An understanding of proper pacing? A villain with a motivation other than "BWAR HAR HAR I R EBULZ?"

Uh, no. I do not just hate it, but one major thing I had with it is the issue of being easily able to overgrind, especially later on, and it can easily make you ridiculously overpowered and, on the same token, difficulty balancing issues. I managed to defeat Bonechill in mere seconds using Luigi and a bottle of Hot Sauce. You know that a boss is broken if you can do that from a low level. I also got so overlevelled for the Flopside Pit of 100 trials after several attempts to complete the pit that I managed to OHKO each of the Dark Heroes after buffing Bowser up with Love Noodles. Something's seriously broken if you can OHKO the extra bosses after naturally levelling off previous attempts in the pit. Also Dottie is very broken in the pits thanks to you getting normal attack while the enemies can not see you when tiny.
These are just some of the facets of the game that had poor difficulty balancing. Don't give the "its for kids" argument because I'm not talking about overall difficulty but rather how it was handled.
Overall, this gets a 7/10 from me for unique themes and gameplay but knocked down by some of the very silly jokes they had and the poor power balancing, especially with some of the items and Dottie.

Edited by Orin XD, 28 September 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[kurt91]

The motion gimmick on hitting enemies was originally just thrown in since it was on the Wii, and you just know you've gotta do stupid shit if you're playing a Wii game. Seriously, get a hold of an ISO of the game, convert it into a CISO (strip out the unused space from the disc to get the real file size), and you'll notice that it's less than one gigabyte. Most Wii games take up 4 to 8 gigabytes. This was originally a GameCube game that they switched to the Wii simply because they figured it would sell better if it was on the newer system. (or that they could charge more, either assumption works)

This game has honestly gotten me wondering how much space they wasted on a lot of other games with crappy graphics or just being too short to enjoy. I mean, I always thought that the reason most of these games were the way they are were lack of space on the disc. This game showed me that simply isn't the reason, and I want to know just what kind of games we'd be getting if they decided to utilize all the disc space available.

Does anybody know how they decided how much money items were worth? I sold an item that only recovered 10 HP at a store, and got over twice the money than I would have gotten for selling the item that recovered 15 HP.

Also, Bonechill was just a disappointingly easy boss. I used the Peach/Thoroah combo and threw his ice back at him. Took no damage during the fight, and that was even forgetting about the umbrella for defense.

[Giggidy]

Protip: You're treating Super Paper Mario as if it were a Final Fantasy game. Don't. If that's what you're expecting then this is obviously not the game for you, but that's not the same thing as being objectively bad. This is like criticizing Final Fantasy 6 for not being Secret of Mana.

[Nicholas Steel]

The thing with Super Paper Mario is that it really does seem to be designed for little kids to enjoy. The difficulty is virtually non-existent. I personally enjoyed the story/dialog, the atmosphere of the 2 towns and several late game areas.

The gameplay is very basic and seemingly built with the intention of being as easy to understand as possible. This easily makes the game boring to replay. The story seems pretty mature though for what to me seems like a little kids game.

Overall I'd give it a 7/10. It's easy, has good story and the gameplay mechanics are nice but very underused/barely explored.

After playing SPM I discovered a copy of Paper Mario 2 at the local Game Traders and subsequently bought it. After giving it a good attempt (Up to the last boss iirc) I noted that the combat is a lot more diverse and deep but I dunno, I just didn't enjoy the initial journey through the game as much as I did SPM. Perhaps the story just didn't grab my attention very well? I also don't enjoy the combat system that much, prefered the way combat was done without breaking the pace of the game in SPM.


With regards to item prices I believe its all based around rarity. It's also possible iirc to buy items and sell them at another vendor for a higher price but it would take a really long time for it to be worthwhile iirc. I had no problems with the items in SPM, I think that part of the game was handled fairly well, except for that card system.

Edited by franpa, 29 September 2012 - 04:04 AM.

[kurt91]

I also don't enjoy the combat system that much, prefered the way combat was done without breaking the pace of the game in SPM.

If you enjoy RPG games, I would have to recommend Super Mario RPG for the Super Nintendo. Square made the game, and the action commands are more subtle and don't stop the battle every turn to do them. Also, the bonus bosses are a lot of fun to fight, and the game mechanics make a low-level game fairly interesting. (lowest possible level to win is 3, first magic attack secretly slightly increases in power every time it's used, even if it doesn't do damage to the target.)

You're treating Super Paper Mario as if it were a Final Fantasy game. Don't.

Oh, I knew what kind of game it was beforehand. I saw the first part of an LP for the game, and I own Thousand Year Door. I liked the idea of mixing RPG stuff into a side-scrolling game, I just felt that it could have been done much better.

Edited by kurt91, 29 September 2012 - 06:34 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

If you enjoy RPG games, I would have to recommend Super Mario RPG for the Super Nintendo. Square made the game, and the action commands are more subtle and don't stop the battle every turn to do them. Also, the bonus bosses are a lot of fun to fight, and the game mechanics make a low-level game fairly interesting. (lowest possible level to win is 3, first magic attack secretly slightly increases in power every time it's used, even if it doesn't do damage to the target.)

Yeah now Legend of the 7 Stars was a great game which is why it's odd that I don't like the combat as much in Paper Mario 2 when its virtually the same system. Maybe it just isn't as polished in Paper Mario 2.

[Orithan]

Mind you, I was playing the game casually. But it being for kids is a bad excuse for poor difficulty balancing in some areas.
Edit: Deleted most of post due to a misconception. I apologize for that

Edited by Orin XD, 29 September 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[HylianGlaceon]

SPM just generally sucked. The levels were too short/boring, controls were awkward and aside from Tippi, the Pixls have about as much of a personality as a cardboard box. I really missed the style of the partners from the first two games while playing this.


On a side-note, I finished Super Metroid like a week ago. it was a decent game, just I think I still like the Prime games more. I was kind of surprised how easy Ridley was though.

Edited by HylianGlaceon, 29 September 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[Russ]

I was kind of surprised how easy Ridley was though.

Funny, I was just talking about this last night. I somehow didn't know the charge beam existed until I reached the end of the game. Normally not too bad, but Ridley... he was a living Hell. Used every missile, every super missile, was rationing power bombs to hit him at just the right time... it was bad.

As far as Metroid games go, Return of Samus is still my favorite, despite it apparently being the least liked 2D game.

[HylianGlaceon]

Funny, I was just talking about this last night. I somehow didn't know the charge beam existed until I reached the end of the game. Normally not too bad, but Ridley... he was a living Hell. Used every missile, every super missile, was rationing power bombs to hit him at just the right time... it was bad.

As far as Metroid games go, Return of Samus is still my favorite, despite it apparently being the least liked 2D game.

I think I had nearly all of the upgrades (50 Super Missiles and 200+ Missiles), so that may be why he was easier for me. Never went through all of my missiles the three times I've fought him. I found the Charge Beam the first time around in that area oddly enough and without a walkthrough.

I did cheat in a way by using a walkthrough after each area that I completed on my own to see where some hidden stuff was that I didn't find. I kinda miss Zelda's way of at least hinting at something being hidden than just dumb luck of finding it. I guess you're supposed to go back to each and every area with the X-Ray Scope to find them.

I've played Return of Samus, it was an alright game, just didn't really have the depth to me as much as the other ones do. It's probably better than Other M at least.

I still need to get Zero Mission and Fusion someday. As well as play the original in the old graphics, which I think can be played with the GCN Metroid Prime once I get Fusion, I don't really remember.