377 replies to this topic

[Air Luigi]

Megaman 2 in 1988:

 

 

Megaman 6 in 1993:

 

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... 

[The Satellite]

Oh wow, look at how much better 6 looks with its improved graphics that aren't just a wall of the same tile over and over, and how its enemies actually take advantage of the environment instead of just sorta being there!

 

So what if they're visually similar? Plant Man's stage has very different gimmicks than Wood Man's stage.

[Moonbread]

Plant Man's honestly looks way better to me.  The jungle portrays the illusion of depth much better, with the various sized tree trunks in the background that aren't just a shrunken version of the ones at the front, plus it's not just a straight line of trees reusing a messy tile over and over.  It also has the different sizes of grass in the background and foreground and the vines going from tree to tree.  I mean, 2 still looks decent, but 6 is a huge improvement.

 

Also, if you want to talk easy robot masters... Metal Man, Air Man, Heat Man, Flash Man, Wood Man, and Bubble Man are all some of the easiest bosses in the entire series.  In fact, all of the robot masters in 2 go down really quickly.  Some of them even go down in just one shot, while at worst some might take 4.

[Air Luigi]

Oh wow, look at how much better 6 looks with its improved graphics that aren't just a wall of the same tile over and over, and how its enemies actually take advantage of the environment instead of just sorta being there!

 

So what if they're visually similar? Plant Man's stage has very different gimmicks than Wood Man's stage.

 

XD, that's a poor way to value the games in my book, but that explain all. So, if we rushed the same game over and over with a few tweaks here and there and trying to improve the graphics... is it better than a original and unique work? And that without in taking in account that destroyed the balance and challenge of the past games...

Thank god the experts in videogames don't think in that way and Megaman 6 got the trashing that deserved in their time. 

Edited by Air Luigi, 23 September 2014 - 07:04 PM.

[The Satellite]

What the actual f—

 

You don't want games to improve with new and different gimmicks? You don't want developers to take what works and improve it? Maybe you haven't noticed, but most works of art—whether books, paintings, movies, video games, etc.—have basis in another work, taking ideas that have worked and tweaking them or adding their own spin to them. And yes, many original ideas come along, and often original ideas are mixed with existing ones, it's how we get new art, new stories, new experiences.

 

News flash, the "experts in video games" do think that way. They take what works and add new spins to it. Many also like to play with expectations, showing you something familiar then doing some new twist with it. That's how things have always worked, whether you see it or not.

 

I invite you again to compare Wood Man's stage to Plant Man's stage. They're only "similar" when they're outside. Inside, they're different. And then this is just in visuals. Wood Man's also looks incredibly boring, with no obstacles and just platforms and enemies. Plant Man's? There's that area with the springs and the platforms you have to shoot to open before you can use to get across, while dodging incoming enemies and fish leaping out of the water.

 

Tell me again they're the same stage. I'll wait.

[Moonbread]

You know, there are games out there that use bigoted depictions of people- that mock minorities who are struggling- to sell and "entertain"; that portray awful ideas and stereotypes about other countries.  But you're glad Mega Man 6 got trashed because you don't care for its design direction?  That it's a problem that people enjoy MM6 a lot because of the effort that went into the graphics, atmosphere, etc, or maybe that they just prefer its level design?

 

That's honestly fucked up.  It really is, and there's no other way to put it.  I don't really mind that you don't value MM6 as much as I do, because another person's dislike of something that I enjoy shouldn't factor in to how much I appreciate it.  I love it because every time I sit down and play it, I have fun, loads of fun.  In the end, that's all that really matters to me.  Why does it matter to you so much that it supposedly got trashed?  What does it do for you?  Does it really make you feel better?  Wouldn't you rather feel better by being able to appreciate and enjoy something instead?  Wouldn't it be better to find out something you like about something you normally don't care for, to get a new appreciation for it?  You don't always have to gain that from every situation, but then, it is at least better to walk away without more hatred.   Or in other words...

[Air Luigi]

There is a big difference between taking inspiration to bring something that feels new, and making a sequel xD To put a example, La-Mulana is a game that took inspiration from a lot of MSX games, to bring a total new experience. Megaman 6 is just the sixth sequel from the same series xD And lacks the "heart" from the old games (which is what saves Megaman 3 for me).

The stages are obviously different ¬¬ That's not the problem... You are missing the context of the games. 1988= NES was on fire. 1993= Snes was around, and no one cared about this rehash. Megaman 4-5 have unique themes that this game lacks, and there is a lot of moments in 6 when you feel "I was here before".

 

Is it a bad game (MM6)? No. Is it fun? Yes. Is a game that go against what Megaman was? Totally. Has any value MM6 for the history of videogames? Zero. That's all. You can love it as a good platformer.

 

I'm tired of writing in english today >.>

Edited by Air Luigi, 23 September 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[The Satellite]

There is a big difference between taking inspiration to bring something that feels new, and making a sequel xD

Doesn't make them mutually exclusive, in fact that's what most sequels do.
 

The stages are obviously different ¬¬ That's not the problem... You are missing the context of the games. 1988= NES was on fire. 1993= Snes was around, and no one cared about this rehash. Megaman 4-5 have unique themes that this game lacks, and there is a lot of moments in 6 when you feel "I was here before".

You never said that. You posted a picture of two stages from different games with similar graphics and little else. You made it look like you were judging solely on the fact that the environments were the same. Easy to misunderstand.

And yeah, 6 was overlooked, mainly because it was released on a dying console. It happens, sad to say. Doesn't make it any less of a good game.
 

Is a game that go against what Megaman was? Totally.

That's just your opinion. Many of its fans think it did just the opposite. I don't get what's so hard about accepting that and moving on.
 

Has any value MM6 for the history of videogames? Zero.

No, Zero came from the X series.

[DashSim]

The post above with the screenshot comparison is sort of weird to me, because the post seems to be making the argument that 6 in comparison to 2 doesn't show a substantial visual evolution of the series, but the shots themselves appear to make the opposite argument.

 

I mean, I haven't really played much of Mega Man 6 (yet!) and I've played and enjoyed 2 just a couple times, so I don't really particularly have a horse in this race or anything. But I think that the screenshots actually illustrate really well how a series can advance visually on the same hardware via the developers gaining a better understanding of it through experience, which is always something I find really neat.

 

Arguments can totally be made in favor of MM2's visuals, of course! Its more repetitious visuals sort of look more... machine-like, which could be seen as more thematically appropriate for this series, maybe? Or maybe the more simple visuals could just be seen as charming. But... Certainly the MM6 screenshot is less repetitious, more colorful and is generally more varied and interesting. It's more lush, organic and visually pleasing to look at to me, and in terms of what people prefer, it's not exactly baffling why they would lean strongly towards that.

[Aevin]

Inspired by this conversation, I started playing through Mega Man 6 again, and ...

 

It's way better than I remember. There's enough unique and interesting gimmicks to keep me interested, and I'm not finding it ridiculously easy as I seemed to remember it, (I think maybe I'm thinking of 5). The bosses seem well thought out, too, some of them are pretty tough to dodge unless you know their patterns, which is just how MM bosses should be. But most of all, what's impressing me is the secrets. Every stage has several secrets hidden, and you have to revisit them with the Rush adapters to find everything. Secret exits with the Beat parts? Yes, please. Some of the levels have completely optional - and more challenging - branches that span a great deal of the level, something that occurs rarely in previous games. Everything I thought I disliked about this entry is proving not nearly as bad as I remember.

Wouldn't you rather feel better by being able to appreciate and enjoy something instead?  Wouldn't it be better to find out something you like about something you normally don't care for, to get a new appreciation for it?

I just now saw this, and I've been saying something like this for a long time. If I love a movie and someone else hates it, the biggest difference between the two of us is I get to have more fun. Obviously, I'm not advocating for ignoring flaws in entertainment, but sometimes I think people get stuck on the small stuff and miss the bigger picture.

[Moosh]

So today I beat my first Megaman game. Well technically there was Megaman 10 on easy mode, but that doesn't count. Anyways, Yellow Devil...

 

You know you have a rustling boss when it's an accomplishment to beat it without cheating.

[The Satellite]

It's a good accomplishment and it was fun watching you endeavor your way through this. It's a rough road to make it there, but doable. Eventually. Now to wait to see you do the rest of the series...

 

Okay so it just mostly gets easier.

[Aevin]

There's so little room between the two sides as he's changing. It's a really nasty boss, all right. I think MM1 is the hardest of them all, personally. Congrats.

 

So, I finished MM6. Some of the Wily/Mr. X stages had me really absorbed. My two favorite colors are green and pink, which is exactly the two colors several of the stages used. I hoarded energy tanks and ended up beating it with seven of them. I remembered the final boss being quite a bit harder, and I guess I over-prepared. Overall, I had a really good time.

[Air Luigi]

TS, do you know that the default difficulty in MM2 is "Difficult"? "Normal" was a toned-down mode exclusive for childs (Rockman 2 doesn't have "Normal"), and obviously that destroyed the balance. Maybe that's the cause... and you were playing a different game than the rest of the world... X)

Edited by Air Luigi, 24 September 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[DCEnygma]

TS, do you know that the default difficulty in MM2 is "Difficult"? "Normal" was a toned-down mode exclusive for childs (Rockman 2 doesn't have "Normal"), and obviously that destroyed the balance. Maybe that's the cause... and you were playing a different game than the rest of the world... X)

 

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. I think that fact is known by most Megaman fans already.

 

Also, regarding your screenshot comparisons:

 

New York City:

 

Chicago:

 

Pfft, they both have buildings and rivers. Same thing, nobody cares.

 

Except, that leaves out literally everything that actually matters, such as the layout of the city, what attractions there are, and everything you can do there. Similarly, posting 2 screenshots of games from the same era leaves out a very important aspect: the gameplay. Which 6 excels at. Just the rush adapters alone and the different paths through levels gave 6 a very unique feel that changed things up the most since the addition of the charge buster in 4.

 

As has been said, you're completely welcome to feel about the game however you want, but its not cool to belittle others' views of it.