123 replies to this topic

[Koh]

That happens with every game on the face of the planet.  You just have to accept that.  People WILL tear apart your game to see the inner workings of it.  Even shitty games like Action 52 got that treatment.  

[LinktheMaster]

You're right that people determined to cheat would seek out these programs anyway, but I wish we wouldn't encourage it by highlighting cheating programs here.

 

Aside from the difficulty balancing work that Jamian mentioned, there's also the idea of the work behind the quest suddenly being visible. If you can walk into areas you're not supposed to be, circumventing the proper warps, you can get yourself lost in areas with the wrong palette, walk through walls into areas that are on the other side of the world that shouldn't be connected ...  You start to see how the quest is assembled, and it starts to become a THING, rather than a game or a story. As a quest maker, I find it rather humiliating for people to see the junk lying around in the random spaces of the quest, and wish players wouldn't choose to do that.

There's really nothing to be embarrassed about, though.  ZC quests in many cases are thrown together.  Sometimes things are hacked in through dumb methods, sometimes areas are in quests that are scrapped because they don't meet the quality of the rest of the quest.  Sometimes you get ideas that you want to include, but end up giving up halfway through.

 

This is perfectly normal - not just of ZC but of the video game world.  In fact, the site The Cutting Room Floor is a site that highlights things that are removed of professional video games.  That's right.  Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, and nearly every other company known to man has parts left in games that people hack to find.  If these professional video game companies leave sometimes entire levels, enemies, and areas in their games, then I think you're okay with having some stuff in a Zelda Classic quest. You really shouldn't find it humiliating at all.  If people think negatively of you for having in complete or having unused junk in your quest, then those people are really small minded.

 

PS: I'd really recommend reading through TCRF.  It's a really interesting website.  I love seeing all the hacky methods they use to get stuff into games as well as what stuff they include that gets dropped.  It's just something that I think is really interesting.

[Moosh]

Time for scripters to make an anti-cheat script. Would totally dig.

I tried making this today and unfortunately, while the script worked for cheats activated by normal means, it couldn't detect those activated with ZeldaShark. So that means no locking up the quest right before the final boss for people who cheat I suppose. Too bad...

[Demonlink]

I tried making this today and unfortunately, while the script worked for cheats activated by normal means, it couldn't detect those activated with ZeldaShark. So that means no locking up the quest right before the final boss for people who cheat I suppose. Too bad...

Well, look on the bright side. Stan isn't much of a problem now XD. (Just kidding, just kidding )

[Russ]

Well, look on the bright side. Stan isn't much of a problem now XD. (Just kidding, just kidding )

Are you implying this held him back before now?

[Moosh]

Are you implying this held him back before now?

Hey, I didn't actually save that run.

[Ben]

Echoing the endorsement for TCRF. BMF and Xkeeper who run it are cool dudes.

 

Anyway, I am kind of on the fence. There's already CheatEngine for ZC cheating, and this is just an alternative. Basically if people want to cheat they'll find a way. I'm not super thrilled about it, but that's how things just are, I guess.

 

As long as this tool isn't used to bypass anything in ZQuest, I'm ok with it.

[Koh]

I won't say any names, so the curious will have to research for theirself, but I'm pretty sure there's a program that exists already that cracks cheat and quest passwords and such.  I remember seeing it a couple of years ago. 

Edited by Koh, 30 May 2014 - 07:49 PM.

[Ventus]

I won't say any names, so the curious will have to research for theirself, but I'm pretty sure there's a program that exists already that cracks cheat and quest passwords and such.  I remember seeing it a couple of years ago. 

I remember it, It let you crack QST Passwords only, though I haven't seen a copy of that program in a long time, I think the only torrent of it is dead so I don't think there is no way to find the program now sadly

[Russ]

While we're on the subject, I do want to point out that quest passwords are not safe. There are numerous ways to get around them, and anybody determined enough can easily get into your quest. So please, don't make the password something you use elsewhere (for example, your PZC password or your credit card number), and don't put anything potentially compromising in the quest file and just assume nobody will ever see it. Just a friendly reminder.

[Geoffrey]

I am indifferent about the program, but it does seem cool.  If I had any qualms about using it, I would remind myself of the infinite fun involved in dissecting games.

 

I probably won't use it, but I am glad to have the option.

[Evan20000]

Well, look on the bright side. Stan isn't much of a problem now XD. (Just kidding, just kidding )

I'm not sure what's the point of cheating against a boss that the only real reward is feeling good about yourself afterward is, but yeah.

 

An anticheat definitely is possible with scripting. Detecting for cheats the normal way won't work, but it's definitely possible if you are crafty about it.

[anikom15]

[TheLegend_njf]

My only fear is that Zelda Shark could hack into quest project demos, and pretty not only discover, but reveal everything the quest author is doing. Leaving projects completely exposed. 

[Russ]

My only fear is that Zelda Shark could hack into quest project demos, and pretty not only discover, but reveal everything the quest author is doing. Leaving projects completely exposed.

So do what I do: Gut your demo files of anything NOT in the demo. Maps, tiles, music, everything. If somebody gets out of bounds, no worries, nothing bu the demo's there.