326 replies to this topic

[SofaKing]

Is there a certain version of 2.5 this must be played in? Any fairly recent one OK? I think the only player I currently have downloaded is 2.5b18. I was kind of waiting for a "final" release before I upgrade again.

[James24]

I've tested and played through my quest 3 times on 1401. But from what I've heard any version above that should be backwards compatible.

[OUCH!]

I was away from ZC the past few years
And my play-skill of ZC were rusted

[yowza]

^ (OUCH!, I'm a huge fan of your Armageddon games, please make a third one )

I've been around here for many years yet mostly lurked, but this quest (and OUCH!'s which I played last year) are forcing me to try and be more active in the forums. Anyways...

I'm just under halfway through this game (almost done with dungeon 4, got 2 heart containers from dungeon 5), here's a few musings from my time with the game so far.

So far I have 141 deaths in Liberation. For reference, I beat Armageddon Quest with 493 deaths, AQ forever has 139 deaths. I know nobody cares about "proof" but I'll go ahead and post some screenshots of things I feel extremely proud of without resorting to cheats. I'll likely make a top 10 list of hardest parts when I finish the actual quest later on.

Death count and status screen

Spoiler

As I said earlier, I don't think anyone cares about proof I didn't resort to cheats, but this quest is easily harder than AQ that I just have to show my appreciation.

Level 1

Spoiler

I first tried this without the big shield, which felt almost impossible. However, getting the sword in this quest was quite liberating indeed, I felt like the entire rest of the game would be cake once I got an actual upgrade over the blue candle...

Level 2

Spoiler

Okay, there's 2 things here. First of all, getting the boomerang has to be the HARDEST part of this quest, without a doubt. I don't even care what's in the other half of the dungeons, the boomerang part was extremely difficult. Perhaps I missed a trick, but going through the wizzrobe + ice/spike part unhurt felt a bit too much. Making it from there to the gohma hail mary room was also a disaster waiting to happen. I'm trying not to sound like a whiner but putting this in level two might force too many players to 'rage quit/cheat' too early on.

The second thing in this picture is the bomb upgrade one south from here. This reminded me of the forest restaurant in armageddon quest where you had to evade the bubbles to deliver the last meat (for I think the fire boomerang). It also reminded me of the bottom right row of the forest restaurant where you had to evade 3 or so rooms of red bubbles to get the 999 wallet or whatever it was (with your sword intact to break the pots). That was by far the hardest thing in AQ/AQ Forever, so using the candle fire to push me through these bubbles was I guess a nice homage to that level.

Level 3

Spoiler

The meat here for the bracelet wasn't too hard (mostly because it was just one room, not a string of several rooms you need to flawlessly pull off), but I'd like to mention it for the clever use of damage from the enemy + my red candle to escape the spikes.

For some reason the white sword appeared again as I went back to take a screenshot, but I assure you I didn't resort to any tricks. Gleeoks are one of my favorite enemies to fight because of the way you maneuver, however this one gave me way more trouble than I expected. I killed the gleeok first then went back to get the rupees to afford the sword. This was likely the second hardest thing, after the boomerang from level 2. The triforce and red candle from this level were very easy in comparison.

Level 4

Spoiler

Bombs were fun to get. The fact that I think 3 of the bosses never respawn made returning after death and progressing further easy.

So far,

Difficulty: Liberation > AQ > AQ Forever
Fun Factor: AQ Forever = Liberation > AQ

By fun factor, it's mostly the sense of gain and feeling of power when I get a new item. AQ Forever had all the heart containers in the first dungeon, which watered the difficulty down, but somehow felt extremely fun.

My one complaint about Liberation so far, is that a lot of the challenge comes from forcing a player to survive a long string of rooms almost flawlessly before giving them a checkpoint in the form of an item or some other shortcut. I respect the challenge in this game, and what I saw in level 5 (kill a single death knight for a heart container or other item) seems to be more in how I prefer to define 'challenge'.

[James24]

Well, Ouch! I'd better enjoy making you die for now coz I know once you're back in full flight you're going to be next to unstoppable.

yowza. The thing is that there's no way for someone to prove they didn't cheat because anyone can just press f3 in the middle of a combat and gain a huge advantage. So, I'll take you on your word. If you say you got that far without cheating - then I'd say you're a very good player - maybe the first who is capable of beating my quest other than me. Just wait till you get to level 9 - heh! In fact, there's no triforce check so feel free to challenge it anytime you like.

And have you tried the mini-games. You'll have fun all right...

Yeah, having to work and struggle for something is very fun once you achieve it. But its so fun to win over something that's truly difficult. I don't know why most ZC players shy away from it - best feeling in the world.

You're right in that you have to complete a whole string of rooms flawlessly but there are really only two mechanisms available to me without having to resort to teleports and permanent secrets. They are the boss key and the dungeon boss. So I've tried to put them in where I could but I realize that that is something I could work on with scripting (only just learning that now but I plan to release a new version with scripting)

As for level 2, getting the boomerang wasn't that hard. There's a technique to getting past the red wizzrobes and the traps without a scratch. I did it many times. In the red wizzrobe room, you need to get them to shoot at you before running for a long straight stretch. For the traps, you need to trigger the trap first and then run once its resetting itself.

As for the bomb upgrade in level 2, I hadn't intended on players getting that until they got the firerang. Congrats to you on getting past so many jinxes with the red candle. I only now realize that its possible to do that *sigh*. I guess level 4 will be a little bit easier.

Yes, you pulled off the level 3 meat trick exactly the way I intended you to. Well done! As for the white sword appearing - there's only two ways - teleporting to the room and by beating the boss and going there. I couldn't replicate the bug that you described. Yeah the gleeok was fun huh? 4 heads with a wooden sword and 6 (or fewer) hearts. Only for pro ZC players. The Manhandlas and room of 10 blue knights should also be challenging but well done if you could beat them so easily.

[Moosh]

The thing is that there's no way for someone to prove they didn't cheat because anyone can just press f3 in the middle of a combat and gain a huge advantage.

Lucky for me, pressing F3 is more trouble than it's worth on my computer and would more likely get me killed than give me an advantage. Good old macs.

Edit: If I might ask something, could you maybe make a version where Link continues with full HP? It's very easy to get back up to full, but the few seconds taken to go refill add up in the long run and take away from the fun...

Edit2: I'm just coming back to this quest after a little break...how am I supposed to get through the vire room in Fort 1 in reverse?

Edited by Pokemonmaster64, 18 March 2012 - 10:23 PM.

[James24]

The reason I set Link's health to 1 when you die is that if a player were to continue at full health then the dungeon enemies don't reset meaning they could bypass a few rooms with enemies killed in their previous life - especially if the rooms have bubbles in them. This would make the game too easy. Making the player exit allows all enemies to respawn when they reenter the dungeon. Besides there's health near the enterance of every dungeon. Play AQ or AQF's robber mansion and you'll see what I mean.

If I could I'd force the player to start outside the dungeon with full health but I don't think that's possible (unless with scripting which I'm learning now). Now if you could write a script for me that does that I'll incorporate it in my Liberation quest and I'll send you the special updated edition. How's that?

Its true that you could, in theory, continue with 1 heart and bypass the rooms but, hey, if you're good enough to do that you deserve to win.

To get through the vire room in reverse, use your sword and think creatively about how to get past the spikes. Coz if the spikes hit you that's 2 hearts down and death. If you're really stuck I'll put a spoiler - but you should think first.

[Moosh]

Have you tried the Enemies Always Return quest rule and screen flag? I suppose I could write a script for you if that's the only way...

As for the vire room, I have absolutely no clue. My best guess is that I need to find a frame of animation where both the rising spikes and the descending spikes deal no damage, but I've been unsuccessful so far. I'm not great at thinking out of the box...

[James24]

Yes, I know about those rules but there are times when I want the screen cleared for a little while like for example in level 3 where previously cleared rooms have to be enemy free so players can access the health shop. Its impossible to differentiate between the two occasions.

There's no frame of animation where you can walk past the spikes in reverse - to the best of my knowledge. Ok, I'll give you another hint. You need to bypass 3 sets of spikes - if you were to lose 1/2 a heart on each of them, could you make it through?? Think Poke - not only do you have to be a great figher to beat my quest but you need to be a great thinker as well.

[Moosh]

*Headdesk* That's so obvious, why did I not think of it!?

[James24]

Its easier said than done - good luck pulling it off.

[MermaidCim]

Im about to pull out my hair playing this quest. LOL.

I've died like 100 times so far and I haven't even gotten the sword yet. This is impossible to beat!

[James24]

Welcome to the pros world SoStaci. If you can't beat Armageddon Quest - don't even try to complete my quest without the gold ring (which is in town path NWSW if you are really suffering)

[MermaidCim]

I struggled at first with Armageddon quest, then I eventually got around to dying less than 50 times in that.

[James24]

Wow...that's pretty good. If you can beat AQ then you should be able to beat mine without cheating but you might have to work a little bit. By the way, make sure that you have the magic shield before you try and get the sword. Go to the village and Ama can give you a hint regarding where it is.

Edited by James24, 20 March 2012 - 07:49 AM.