137 replies to this topic

[Russ]

We played right into his hand, and he didn't suffer at all.

Well I guess here it becomes a matter of religion. If he's right, he's in Paradise right now and we've made him infinitely happier. If there is no God, then he got off easy. If there's a God other than the Muslim God, chances are he's burning in Hell. So we played into his hand, correct. The question is whether or not the afterlife's what he was expecting.

[Fabbrizio]

Well I guess here it becomes a matter of religion. If he's right, he's in Paradise right now and we've made him infinitely happier. If there is no God, then he got off easy. If there's a God other than the Muslim God, chances are he's burning in Hell. So we played into his hand, correct. The question is whether or not the afterlife's what he was expecting.

^Apparently does not understand Islam in the slightest.

You DO REALIZE that even if Allah (Muslim God, since you probably don't know that) was the actual God, he'd still be burning in Hell. You've got this idiotic misplaced association of ISLAM = OMFG KILL THE CHRISTIANS, when really THERE'S A REASON why Sunni Muslims and Shiite Muslims don't get along. For another thing YOU'RE COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT.

Edited by PowerGauntlets, 02 May 2011 - 06:51 PM.

[Ben]

The guy was for real. He murdered thousands of people, not just Americans. I refuse to listen to "well, he was doing what he believed in" or to the conspiracy theorists speculating that he may have been made up for political reasons. He got exactly what he deserved, which was an efficient death and appropriate treatment. You don't leave a cancerous malignant tumor like Bin Laden around to slowly destroy the rest of the world -- the guy obviously felt zero regret for what he did, aside from forcing himself and his peers to live in hiding after making an enemy of pretty much everyone. Ending even one life is a pretty massive thing. Think of all the experiences of your own life suddenly coming to an end -- all that diversity in events and people, gone just like that, to be replaced by absolutely nothing. When you discard someone else's right to live, you forfeit your own.

This man may have been doing what he believed in -- but what he believed in was 100% wrong. There is no valid excuse for the slaughter of sentient life.

It's unfortunate that this happened on Obama's watch; this won him a lot of political capital, and he's running the country into the ground economically (a discussion for another thread), but I think that is still minor compared to the lives possibly saved by the eradication of a man from the world who was truly and inescapably evil.

I'm not saying that there are still not other problems to solve, but now we've got one less to worry about. Al Quaeda is pretty fractured already and they're angry, but they seem to lack the cohesion required to orchestrate any kind of major attack in the foreseeable future.

Pakistan is all upset about the operation to get Bin Laden having occurred on their soil without permission, and wanted to carry out the mission themselves, but really. You have essentially a fortress in a poor part of town and the Pakistani government didn't know who was living there? Please. They'd have just tipped someone off that the US was getting too close to discovering his location, like they have before. Without interference from their own corrupt government, we'd have accomplished this much sooner.

Edited by Bagel, 02 May 2011 - 07:31 PM.

[Russ]

^Apparently does not understand Islam in the slightest.

You DO REALIZE that even if Allah (Muslim God, since you probably don't know that) was the actual God, he'd still be burning in Hell.

You misread me.

If he's right, he's in Paradise right now and we've made him infinitely happier.

I understand Islam, and I understand that by all Islamic standards, Osama's burning in hell. But, I said if HE'S right, not if ISLAM'S right. I understand Islam fine; my family has quite a history with it, although that's a different story.

[Fabbrizio]

You misread me.
I understand Islam, and I understand that by all Islamic standards, Osama's burning in hell. But, I said if HE'S right, not if ISLAM'S right. I understand Islam fine; my family has quite a history with it, although that's a different story.

Well, sorry, but the way you phrased it made it seem like you meant something entirely different.

[Nathaniel]

So this has gone to six pages already now, eh? You guys will never quit, as I hear some of the same stuff being iterated over and over again. I'm sure I'm bound to do the same, since I don't have the time to read through all of it. Sounds like some of you guys just want to listen to yourselves talk more than hear other people talk. Watch this turn into a general religious debate again, and we are back to square one for the 9001st time.

I am no religious expert by any means, so I am not going to pretend like I know what Islam says, what Christianity says, what Athiesm says (if that is even a universal message), etc. But I will say that Al Qaeda and organizations like that when it comes down to everything, are not religious organizations, but rather political organizations. They may say something about their religion, but they are just using it as a means to justify their actions. But the terrorist acts themselves and the goals they wish to achieve with them are purely political.

In my opinion (not the universally accepted as correct, and I wouldn't dare to ever claim that), I don't see Bin Laden's death as a means to celebrate or be a blind Nationalist (not that I ever want to be), but rather as a means to say "good riddance", and "one less thing to worry about". There are many other important issues to worry about, as has certainly been the case before the news came out. I could make a list of what those issues are, but that would be trailing far from the topic.

And yes, with Bin Laden gone, that doesn't mean that Al Qaeda is gone either, and even if it hypothetically was, there are plenty of other terrorist organizations out there, with just about any agenda you could imagine that goes against just about any established nation in our world. Terrorism ain't ever gonna go away people, because it is bred by hatred and intolerance, which is something that exists in all of us. Some just have a better control over it than others. As long as there is hatred and intolerance, there is the potential for terrorism to exist. This is why I dislike the title "the war on terrorism" (just like I hate the title "the war on drugs" or even "the war on anonymous"). You can't ever win a war against a concept. At best you can keep it at bay. That is as far as you can go with it.

[ShadowTiger]

^ Ditto. o.o'


Also, there appear to be a rather large number of "IT'S A FAKE!" outcries. For example, I just found this video of a photoshopped Osama face, and this article. It's difficult to say what's what in terms of credibility, but these days, I'd rather not place all of my eggs in the basket of the people who want to hold as much credibility as possible for the sake of being selective about what people see.


EDIT:

Spoiler

[HollowKnight]

Whoo, weirdest way to wake up ever. Being tapped on the shoulder and told "Osama Bin Laden is dead."

Just to add my two cents, I think you people are looking at this wrong. First point I'm going to touch on is the fact that we gave Osama the option of surrender, and he would have received fair trial, except for the fact that he declined and grabbed his wife to use as a human shield. Although you can still argue it is still not right for us to judge him and decree him guilty of death, we gave him the option of fair trial, and then proceeded to wash and wrap his body to prepare him for burial at sea. We payed him respect and gave him a true burial, even though the people who did this came from the military of a country where he mass-murdered thousands of people.
My second point is that although killing him did NOT end the war on terrorism(pardon my use of the term as I understand you are not a fan of it, Nathaniel), it gained the help of Pakistan (although there are many complications) and eliminated a huge motivator and figure head for the extremist groups in the Middle East. I am sure the United States' inability to catch Bin Laden empowered many terrorists to view themselves as invincible, or to believe that Osama would destroy the West. Although this does not seem like much, I wonder how many activists became involved in extremist activity or were encouraged to perform suicide bombings by the perceived weakness in the 'all powerful' US. By killing him we have crushed this hope and given that power to our own military and intelligence agencies.
My last point returns to the issue of morality. It doesn't matter where your viewpoint stands, the option to kill a major organizer of terrorist activity is an opportunity that cannot be disregarded due to being shipped off as 'immoral.' It was the intelligent thing to do.

Also, thousands have not died in the search for Osama Bin Laden. These people have died in the war against terror in the Middle East, while the tracking of Osama was dealt with mostly by intelligence agencies.

I am not trying to start an argument of any sort and in no way claim I am the most informed on the subject, but I just hope that this post may clarify a few issues that have been circulating in this topic. Have a pleasant discussion.

Edited by HollowKnight, 02 May 2011 - 08:14 PM.

[Isdrakthül]

I'd like to point out that all the official reports say is that a woman who was used as a human shield died. They do not say that Osama was the person who used her as a shield or that she was his wife. Also, I'm not completely convinced that they actually made an effort to take him alive.

Edited by Isdrakthül, 02 May 2011 - 08:21 PM.

[HollowKnight]

I'd like to point out that all the official reports say is that a woman who was used as a human shield died. They do not say that Osama was the person who used her as a shield or that she was his wife. Also, I think it unlikely that they actually made an effort to take him alive.

I cannot guarantee it, but I have heard on FOX news that the woman Osama used was confirmed to be his wife. I do not know if this information is accurate. And without being there, we can never know if your second thought is true.

Both however, are valid points.

[ShadowTiger]

I just found this video of Bin Laden's son. I wish I had the full interview here, but from what was shown, at least in this context, he's a pretty cool guy. Check it out.



I like how Osama accepted his son's choice to depart from terrorist ways. ... though I doubt Osama himself would have specifically called it a "terrorist" way, or whatever equivalent. It could be roughly the equivalent of a soldier departing the army of the country he loves to wish for peace through out the world.

[Moonbread]

It's interesting that the son of a terrorist, someone who used to be a part of Al Qaeda, can show more humanity than the majority of Americans right about now, as well. I support him all the way, if I can in any way at all.

[Hunter P Brown]

It's interesting that the son of a terrorist, someone who used to be a part of Al Qaeda, can show more humanity than the majority of Americans right about now, as well. I support him all the way, if I can in any way at all.

Better to support a guy wanting peace now then a guy still wanting to murder innocents.

[Moonbread]

Well yeah, obviously, but it's interesting because apparently I'd sooner support ex-Al Qaeda because he's not going on about pissing on Osama's grave, which is apparently how we're going to avenge the deaths of the innocents, right?

[Hunter P Brown]

Well yeah, obviously, but it's interesting because apparently I'd sooner support ex-Al Qaeda because he's not going on about pissing on Osama's grave, which is apparently how we're going to avenge the deaths of the innocents, right?

Most other moronic leaders of terror, or at least high power, would've said "we won't rest until they are avenged," which would probably mean one or the other is going to be vanquished with 100% casualties.