121 replies to this topic

[Omega]

You were saying, * I wouldn't think I would need to say this again, but the developers DO have lives. They have other, more important things to do than to sit on their computer writing some code so that a bunch of people who doesn't even pay them can get what they want.
* It seems they have enough spare time to add new features, yet can't get a new version out. 2.5 has enough features. Don't develop something you can not manage. You give others false hope. Allot of people have put allot of time into making ZC what it is today, whether its tilesets, quests or bug testers. They also have lives, yet they spend some of theirs keeping ZC afloat while the developers release new builds. I think a new version is due, but with all the new features being added, it will be forever til' one is released. Not discrediting anyone here, but the bug testers, tilset creators, quest makers, are also important, and also have lives. Not just the developers.

Edited by Mr.Fresh, 26 April 2010 - 06:53 PM.

[elise]

Yes if it takes another 5 years nobody is around to work with it anymore that are here today good quest developers like shoelace and Peteo and ....even AGN is not there anymore by then just look at the activity there ..it already took to long .

and Lemon 2.10 would be released bug free Darknation took it up and stopped at 2.102 never finished that one either

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

You were saying, * I wouldn't think I would need to say this again, but the developers DO have lives. They have other, more important things to do than to sit on their computer writing some code so that a bunch of people who doesn't even pay them can get what they want.
* It seems they have enough spare time to add new features, yet can't get a new version out. 2.5 has enough features. Don't develop something you can not manage. You give others false hope. Allot of people have put allot of time into making ZC what it is today, whether its tilesets, quests or bug testers. They also have lives, yet they spend some of theirs keeping ZC afloat while the developers release new builds. I think a new version is due, but with all the new features being added, it will be forever til' one is released. Not discrediting anyone here, but the bug testers, tilset creators, quest makers, are also important, and also have lives. Not just the developers.

I agree, but so far there has been so many people who has finished something in ZC, so even if the developers just decided to stop developing it, that work would still be there and ready to be enjoyed by thousands of others in the future. Of course, I don't want them to stop developing the program, but if it happened, it wouldn't mean that ZC itself would vanish from the internet, you know? I would still be here, and I'm sure everyone else would too

Now that said, everyone using ZC knows, and has always known that there's the possibillity that it will never actually get finished. It might happen, but we've known that from the start. I think we will at least get one more stable release, but I could in theory be wrong. This is of course a worst-case scenario.

Both you and Elise have a good point though, people have spent a lot of time using this program, and it would be a shame if some of the new quests we see today would never actually see the light of day, but one thing I do know for sure, is that no matter what happens, everything that has already been finished will forever remain so, and if people could make those quests then, is it really that hard to imagine someone doing it again, without all the new features? The old versions of ZC has worked in the past, and they still do, even if 2.5 is released. I'm sure some people will stay behind and use the old versions too...

Though if I could have a stable release now, I would gladly take it, seeing as I would love to at least be sure that my quest won't one day just disappear. I too have had my bug-encounters, even though it's been a long time since I last lost any real progress... last time I did though, I lost everything, and this is obviously a pretty big problem. Luckily, it's not that bad these days, but I'm sure it still happens to some unlucky people. But again, they knew the risk

[Freedom]

Migo you're just ate up with political correctness, me on the other hand, I don't have a political correct bone in my body.

I'm not going to pat someone on the back and tell them everything is fine when I clearly know that it is not.
Nor will I shower someone with praise to make them feel good about themselves while not mentioning that bad they did to save their feelings, or take both sides of an issue.

If Zelda Classic is to succeed, then it's faults have to be pointed out and anyone capable needs to deal with them
Saying nothing means nothing is going to happen, just like it does in the real world.

You said waiting 5 years is fine with you, that is your option of course, but many have waited their 5 years PLUS some already and they are ready for a stable release.

Help out, or get out of the way.

[Omega]

Not much is done now days, if a stable release was finalized, there would be allot more new quests from great quest makers like Freedom himself. That would also leave allot of time for the developers to focus on adding new features towards a future release. I can't wait five years for something that could very well be done within a month or two. Freedom said it, some have been waiting for years already, myself included.

[Gleeok]

QUOTE(Plissken @ Apr 26 2010, 04:12 PM) *

One thing I want to make clear myself. I am I also disappointed with the situation 2.5 is in. I don't like how it's taken so long to develop and personally I think it should just be released right now, regardless of official bugs, with the source code included.


This 100%.

I don't understand why ZC HAS to be closed sourced. A program made in 1999 is not that much a big deal now. They should have it open source so other people can help out in the program.

If it was up to me it would be open source, but it is not. It's my understanding that it was Phantom Menace's wish, for whatever reason, that zc remain closed source, so we all respect that. If it were, "Fix it yourself!" would be my new favorite phrase.

[Jupiter]

If it were, "Fix it yourself!" would be my new favorite phrase.

Somewhere, in a room far away, Jupiter shivers.

[Nathaniel]

To avoid the tireless back and forth rebuttals, I am just going to move to another point.

If it was up to me it would be open source, but it is not. It's my understanding that it was Phantom Menace's wish, for whatever reason, that zc remain closed source, so we all respect that. If it were, "Fix it yourself!" would be my new favorite phrase.

My questions to you are these: Is he still contactable? If so, what if you attempted to ask him about it? How long ago did he last express that wish? Is there any possibility that he might ever change his mind on it? You will never know if he is never asked. After all, it is a program he created in 1999. Any for the comic relief question: Does he still party like it's 1999?

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

To avoid the tireless back and forth rebuttals, I am just going to move to another point.



My questions to you are these: Is he still contactable? If so, what if you attempted to ask him about it? How long ago did he last express that wish? Is there any possibility that he might ever change his mind on it? You will never know if he is never asked. After all, it is a program he created in 1999. Any for the comic relief question: Does he still party like it's 1999?

You know, I just visualized an older man living somewhere up in some cold mountains in his own little wooden cottage, when his old friend (and earlier general in the army) comes knocking on the door, telling him that "We need you.". At first he refuses, but then something happens, like someone takes his dog or something, and those people just happens to be the "enemy" or whatever, resulting the man into going back to the army and then going on a one-man attack to kill some crazy dictator or something. You know, basically just every single action movie ever created that has anything to do with the 80's and 90's. It's so cliche.

No, I don't really know exactly how I got THAT out of contacting Phantom Menace and asking about making ZC open-source, but I did anyways, and I thought it was funny enough to share.

Now, personally, there's not much I would be able to do with an open-source ZC that I can't already do. This is not because I'm really good at coding and what not, but rather because I'm fairly stupid, and that I don't know how the heck those things works. I'm sure it would change ZC as a whole though. We would most likely have hundreds of different versions, and most big quests would have their own unique build too. While this in theory sounds bothersome, I think it would be utterly fantastic, cause most games would most likely have some very different and unique features. Not that my word matters on this subject, but I do agree to the idea. Why not at least contact him and ask how he would feel about it? What could it possibly hurt?

[Freedom]

Another point too if I may Nathaniel.

So the consensus seems to be that about 95% of those who have been involved in this discussion want a stable release as soon as possible.

At least 3 developers, Jo123, Gleeok, and Saffith I'm sure have read this thread, they can discuss it between themselves and contact Jman and L, and even DN.

Several have offered to beta test, but want assurances that the direction taken this time will be in truth a quest for a stable version..

There are two questions then.

1) are you developers willing to embark on this quest?
Are you willing to give assurances that no more will be added or upgraded, or worked on, until a stable version is released?

2) If these assurances are given how many of you are willing to devote your time to serious testing, even to the point of stopping work on your own quests to see that this gets done?

Names of those who have already offered their services.

Me (Freedom)
Shoelace
Petoe

This will be my last post on the subject, if you want to work towards a stable release, I will help, if not then I will shut up and be done with it and bother you no more
How's that?

[Plissken]

I'd put forth much more effort into testing if it's what's needed to get a release out.

[Geoffrey]

Okay, I'm glad that we've come to a conclusion on this.

I'm sorry, but I can't put a lot of effort into bug testing, as I'm finishing up with school and just have too much on my plate. However, I will continue to report bugs whenever I see them.

[Omega]

I'll gladly help anyway I can, as I want a stable version as much as the next guy. I have an upcoming quest being designed in the 2.5 beta, I'd rather not have to revert it back to 2.10 when finished. The multiple item lists 2.5 has makes it allot easier to create a quest, along with the built in commands you can add. 3d movement is also a major part in my quest, as the overworld needs it in some spots. That alone is one reason I can not use 2.10 for it. Lets get this going guys.

Edited by Mr.Fresh, 26 April 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[Drewby3]

well I hope they focus it around Zelda 3 instead of the original Zelda because it would open up Hundreds of opportunities like if they did that there would probably even be an opportunity to remake 4 swords adventures, Mario RPG and more but they would have to increase skin size and things like that myself I hope they do that.

[Nathaniel]

well I hope they focus it around Zelda 3 instead of the original Zelda because it would open up Hundreds of opportunities like if they did that there would probably even be an opportunity to remake 4 swords adventures, Mario RPG and more but they would have to increase skin size and things like that myself I hope they do that.

Zelda Classic is a tribute to the original, so no matter what is added to it, it will continue to primarily be based on the original. It will always be limited, because it is based on a game that was released in 1987. Its purpose is not so much to make remakes of particular more modern Zelda games, even though it can mimic some of their features, but rather for people to design their own quests based on what is there to implement (among what they choose from it) and thus to mimic those aspects of 2D Zelda games in their own work.