856 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Steel]

I wonder if they'll let us do at least 1 dungeon out of order like LttP did.

[Anthus]

Except Hyrule Historia said that Link never made it back to Hyrule. The next Link to ever come back to Hyrule was the Link from the first two games, who's LttP Link's descendent.

Hm, then it could still be a prequel, which would be cool. I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow tied it in with Skyward Sword if that was the case.

I wonder if they'll let us do at least 1 dungeon out of order like LttP did.

I hope it isn't completely linear, but given the recent trend with Zelda games, I don't see it happening. If you really think about it, other than the very first Zelda, the dungeons have usually had a specific order in which to complete them, especially as the story was integrated more into the games. Link to the Past was the last Zelda to really do it though. AlttP gave you the ability to mix up Levels 3, and 4, (and you could go into, and beat 5 if you got the Fire Rod from 3, and Titan's Mitt from 4). Level 6 could also be done at any point after level 4 since you only need those dungeon items plus the Quake Medallion which requires the Mitt. Ocarina of time let you beat the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple if you don't mind not getting the map (or is it the compass you need the Bow to get I forget).

I hope they don't go the hub world route honestly, it was just a thought. We haven't had a Zelda with a contiguous overworld, since 2006. Everything since TP has done something else entirely with what were essentially world maps in the DS games, Skyloft in SS, and I hope this goes back to having one (or two if they do a dark world) big world(s)

EDIT: Has anyone else watched the trailer on the 3DS? I think the game looks great in motion with the 3D turned on.

Edited by Anthus, 20 April 2013 - 12:15 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

You can do the 4th dungeon in LttP as soon as you get the magic hammer from the first dark world dungeon, you can then use a Tempered Sword against the dungeon 2 boss and beat it super easily.

[Koh]

You could do the Dark World Levels in pretty much any order you wanted. Get the hammer from Level 1 (you wouldn't have to finish it to use it, but why not if you're already there), after which you have ACCESS to Level 2, but instead, take it to north of Kakariko Village in the Light World to get to Level 3 and 4 in the Dark World (can be done in any order). Do Level 4 next to get the Titan's Mitt (and finish it at that point, it's actually the shortest Dark World dungeon), get the Tempered Sword, and you have access to Levels 5 (you need the Flame Rod from Level 3 though), 6 AND 7. In 7 you need the Cane of Somaria though to make moving platforms.

Many would probably just do it in order (because they aren't adventurous dangit XP), but just having the OPTION to sequence break/make your own little order is FAR BETTER than being railroaded the entire time.

As much as I love the Oracle games, you couldn't really explore too much, because there was always something in the way, which you'd over come with the item from the next dungeon. It wouldn't be so bad if we could at least access the majority of the overworld early, like on A Link to the Past.

[Radien]

I haven't read the entire thread, but forgive my ego, for I must contribute my reaction:

Actually, I think it looks pretty good. For being based on Link to the Past, it seems to carry on the feel of the original well enough to invoke nostalgia, while still being an improvement.

For those of you who don't think it looks good, I must ask: do you really think it needs to look more like LTTP? Because I am going to come out and insist that really, LTTP did not look very good in the first place. The character and monster designs were decent, but the game made horrible use of color, the environmental pixel art was incredibly rushed and thrown-together, and the only thing I really liked as-is was the mountain tiles (although the "combo" layout they used was often flawed).

I guess I should concede that it's okay to criticize the graphics as compared to other 3DS games... but seriously, it looks worlds better than the original LTTP, so it's silly to compare it on the same level as the original.




Now, as for me... I have a unique (read: unpopular) perspective on this, because unlike most people here, I am NOT endlessly enamored with LTTP. I actually thought LTTP was flawed and problematic..... BUT, I liked LTTP when the game started off. Once it came to the Dark World, though...the dungeon design, the music, and the graphics all turned me off to the game.

Nintendo has a chance to fix all three of those things now that it is revisiting the LTTP version of Hyrule. I am reasonably confident their dungeon design will be good, and the music will be excellent just so long as they don't bring back too many of the horrible Dark World tunes (the Dark Overworld theme gets a pass, though).

If the game doesn't lead Link into the Dark World at all, I am confident that most of these problems won't surface. But given that this is a direct sequel, I can't guarantee that. It really depends on which direction they take the story, and whether a sufficiently new and different threat is introduced.


As for the gameplay:

I actually think the drawing idea has promise. If what we see is ALL we get, it'll be weak sauce, but I have confidence that you'll learn more and more interesting abilities related to drawings as the game progresses.

Lastly, am I the only person who is enthusiastic about the prospect of a traditional, 2D-ish Zelda game that has 360 degree analog movement?... The DS games had 360 movement in an overhead environment, but you had to use the damn stylus. Now, at least, we'll get traditional analog controls. It'll be like LTTP taken off the grid.

I actually kinda hope that the shield is "always active," like it was in LoZ through LTTP... but after looking at the gameplay footage, I kinda doubt it. If that's the case, I can only hope the shield is permanently assigned to a shoulder button, rather than assigned as an item like it was in the Capcom games.

Analog bow aiming will be tough, but no worse than the DS games, I suppose...

[Shane]

I think the shield might be like how it was PH/ST, where if a projectile comes at Link, Link automatically blocks it. I may be wrong though.

[Koh]

I actually kinda hope that the shield is "always active," like it was in LoZ through LTTP... but after looking at the gameplay footage, I kinda doubt it. If that's the case, I can only hope the shield is permanently assigned to a shoulder button, rather than assigned as an item like it was in the Capcom games.

Hey, don't bash Capcom's Zelda games...they were more polished than Nintendo's. Compare OoX to LA...the engine was WAY more smooth and fluent XD. I get what you're saying though. If it isn't always active though, it makes sense. Let's be honest here. IF you constantly hold a heavy shield out, your arm is going to get tired. If something is coming at you (bro) full speed, and you're just lazily holding the shield like the sprites in ZC suggest, you'd get knocked back pretty hardcore.

[Xenix]

The shield is actually activated with the L-button.
http://www.zeldadung...-to-the-past-2/

[The Satellite]

Lastly, am I the only person who is enthusiastic about the prospect of a traditional, 2D-ish Zelda game that has 360 degree analog movement?

Nah, I'm totally psyched for that as well. Can't wait!

Analog bow aiming will be tough, but no worse than the DS games, I suppose...

Eh, I think it'd probably be just as good, maybe better. Might take some slight getting used to, but afterward it should be pretty smooth.

Hey, don't bash Capcom's Zelda games...they were more polished than Nintendo's. Compare OoX to LA...the engine was WAY more smooth and fluent XD.

Well yeah, I'd expect that of an update to an already-existing engine that was several years old at the time.

Also, Capcom made Four Swords, which sucked, and Nintendo made Four Swords Adventures, which was a vast improvement. And while I haven't played through much of The Minish Cap yet to form an opinion, it's generally regarded as one of the weaker entries to the series. So... yeah, how 'bout that polish, huh?

[Moonbread]

Radien wasn't even bashing the Capcom games in the first place, he was just saying that he would prefer the shield equipped to a shoulder button rather than to X/Y. Honestly, it was annoying in LA/OoX/TMC just because it sort of made having a shield pointless, to me at least.

[Anthus]

I actually kinda hope that the shield is "always active," like it was in LoZ through LTTP... but after looking at the gameplay footage, I kinda doubt it. If that's the case, I can only hope the shield is permanently assigned to a shoulder button, rather than assigned as an item like it was in the Capcom games.

I'm pretty sure the shield is on a shoulder button, cause the four face buttons are used by the sword, two items (yay, It was annoying to only have one equipped at a time, since ALttP did have a ton of items) and an Action button that lets you merge with walls. But who knows, they've been known to change up control schemes in the past. The fact that the action takes place on the top screen can assure that item based touch gimmicks will be minimal. No tapping targets on the top screen

But yeah, I hope they end up having the shield 'always active', cause I hated having to use it with A/ B in the GB games.

[The Satellite]

One of the articles linked earlier confirmed that the shield would be used with the L button permanently.

[Anthus]

One of the articles linked earlier confirmed that the shield would be used with the L button permanently.

That's good.

You could do the Dark World Levels in pretty much any order you wanted. Get the hammer from Level 1 (you wouldn't have to finish it to use it, but why not if you're already there), after which you have ACCESS to Level 2, but instead, take it to north of Kakariko Village in the Light World to get to Level 3 and 4 in the Dark World (can be done in any order). Do Level 4 next to get the Titan's Mitt (and finish it at that point, it's actually the shortest Dark World dungeon), get the Tempered Sword, and you have access to Levels 5 (you need the Flame Rod from Level 3 though), 6 AND 7. In 7 you need the Cane of Somaria though to make moving platforms.

You need the hookshot from Level 2 in order to access the northwest part of the dark world. The way through Kakariko is blocked by a really heavy rock, the the hookshot is required to cross the river near the pyramid. Other than that, you are pretty free (save for needing the Fire rod from Level 3. So you could do, Levels 1, 2, 4, 3 or 6, or 5, 7, 8.


More on topic, I am actually very optimistic towards this game. It seems like they are taking the "Mario 3D Land" approach, and that game brought a lot of new life into the series by re-using old stuff, but in a fun way. This game will need to be more than just nostalgia, but I think Nintendo will be able to deliver. Either way, I'm buying it at launch

[The Satellite]

You need the hookshot from Level 2 in order to access the northwest part of the dark world. The way through Kakariko is blocked by a really heavy rock, the the hookshot is required to cross the river near the pyramid. Other than that, you are pretty free (save for needing the Fire rod from Level 3. So you could do, Levels 1, 2, 4, 3 or 6, or 5, 7, 8.

Actually, no, you can reach a portal to the Dark World through the Lost Woods, letting you do Thieves' Town early. Learned it from watching Rambly stream it, and it's a nice little trick. Access to early Tempered Sword, anyone?

More on topic, I am actually very optimistic towards this game. It seems like they are taking the "Mario 3D Land" approach, and that game brought a lot of new life into the series by re-using old stuff, but in a fun way. This game will need to be more than just nostalgia, but I think Nintendo will be able to deliver. Either way, I'm buying it at launch

Well I hope it's not like 3D Land, because that would mean that it was good, but vastly inferior to the rest of the series.

Nah, I see what you mean, I'm hoping for something like that as well. I'm also looking forward to it, it'll be fun.

[Nicholas Steel]

You could do the Dark World Levels in pretty much any order you wanted. Get the hammer from Level 1 (you wouldn't have to finish it to use it, but why not if you're already there), after which you have ACCESS to Level 2, but instead, take it to north of Kakariko Village in the Light World to get to Level 3 and 4 in the Dark World (can be done in any order). Do Level 4 next to get the Titan's Mitt (and finish it at that point, it's actually the shortest Dark World dungeon), get the Tempered Sword, and you have access to Levels 5 (you need the Flame Rod from Level 3 though), 6 AND 7. In 7 you need the Cane of Somaria though to make moving platforms.

Many would probably just do it in order (because they aren't adventurous dangit XP), but just having the OPTION to sequence break/make your own little order is FAR BETTER than being railroaded the entire time.

As much as I love the Oracle games, you couldn't really explore too much, because there was always something in the way, which you'd over come with the item from the next dungeon. It wouldn't be so bad if we could at least access the majority of the overworld early, like on A Link to the Past.

When I talk about doing dungeons out of order, I don't mean stopping halfway and exiting to do another with the former dungeons Item. That's just a waste of time and not really worth it since once you get a dungeon item you're virtually at the boss already so why skip it? It could however lead to interesting Low Health playthroughs where you avoid getting the Heart Container and Maiden/Pendant from the bosses until it is required.

Edited by franpa, 21 April 2013 - 04:36 AM.