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[Rambly]

Some random thoughts about A Link Between Worlds in no specific order.  Minor spoilers

The engine and controls were good, mostly.  I think it felt really fluid.  The quick item animations, particularly how fast Link swung his sword, made the game feel a lot faster paced and made you feel like a lot more control than many other recent 2D Zelda titles.  Pegasus Boots dashing was kinda wonky, though -- A Link to the Past tends to push you out of the way if you're a couple pixels off from the edge of an object, which makes more sense to me intuitively.  A Link Between Worlds tends to make you bonk if you're even barely aligned with a tree.  I found this kinda annoying.  On the other hand, you can dash diagonally, which is cool.

 

Painting Link actually felt like a fun mechanic that added to puzzles rather than a gimmick.  Also, I liked that a lot of the puzzles took advantage of ALBW's 3D perspective.

 

I thought most of the Light World dungeon design was kind of bland -- Eastern Palace was very eh and I don't remember House of Gales one bloody bit (because it sucked).  Tower of Hera was okay, I guess.  As far as the Lorule dungeons, most of them ruled.  Thieves' Hideout was probably the weakest one since it all hinged on a single (lame, overdone) gimmick, although the boss battle was sweet and probably the best in the game.  Turtle Rock, while fun in spots, felt kind of hollow/empty overall and there really wasn't much to navigate.

So that leaves Desert Palace (my personal favorite), Swamp Palace, and Palace of Darkness, all of which probably rank among some of my favorite dungeons in any Zelda game.  Skull Woods and Ice Ruins weren't bad either!  (The latter was probably the weirdest dungeon in terms of overall design in any Zelda game, though.  Not even bad, just, like, ... what's the opposite of claustrophobia?  I think it gave me that feeling.  Imagine Ice Ruins being redone in the ALTTP engine, like, without the ability to see everything below like in ALBW's engine.  It would look WEIRD.)

 

I'm not sure how they pulled this off, but the overworld managed to not feel a single thing like A Link to the Past's despite virtually being the same.  One of my favorite things about Death Mountain in ALTTP was the fact that it had, like, this intricate cave network that you could get lost in -- that's absent from ALBW, being replaced with weird floating platform/boulder dodging gauntlets.  Nearly every other minor cave in the game is either a single square room, or a weird obstacle course of some sort where treasure hunters watch your every move.  I'm not sure how to feel about this development, but some of the "obstacle course" caves I talked about had some interesting puzzle design, so I'll give the game props for that, I guess.

 

I realize this is a matter of taste and I have friends that really liked the music, but I just gotta be real about my feelings here: With the exception of the arranged Light World dungeon music and a couple of other tunes, I thought the music sucked.  Most of the arranged forms of ALTTP either featured only superficial deviations in the form of the soundbank being different, or sounded no more inspired than a throwaway Nintendo pre-release YouTube video promo.   The original dungeon themes were the most soulless, bland ambient songs ever written, and most of the other original songs could pass for songs from some bad RuneScape knockoff browser RPG.

 

Did I bitch about the graphics before the game came out?  I think I did.  They looked awful and muddy and oversaturated in promo screenshots, but on the actual 3DS screen they really don't look half bad.  And I didn't even play with the 3D on!  (The 3D hurts my eyes too much. ;_; )  It's not, like, the most eye-poppingly gorgeous Zelda game to ever grace the Little Screens, but it still looks pretty good.  Some of the dungeons looked really neat aesthetically, actually.  (I'm thinking of Dark Palace here!)

 

Boss fights that actually gave me trouble to the point they felt tense: The hand dude in Skull Woods, Blind, Yuga, uhhh I guess Darkstare maybe.  That's still more difficult bosses than have usually been in Zelda games lately, so... I guess that's cool?

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the item rental system.  One of my favorite aspects of Zelda in general is uncovering the dungeon item and discovering its uses and I was sad to see that aspect mostly gone -- you get equipment items from Lorule dungeons only as dungeon items.  (Three of which are Master Ore chunks!?  Really?  C'mon, you guys couldn't at least invent some sort of new equipment items?)  The game only featured two substantially new items: the Tornado Rod (which blew, har har, but seriously it wasn't an interesting item at all) and the Sand Rod (which actually was quite fun).  I'm not terribly upset to have access to every item from the start, though -- what does annoy me is that you lose everything when you die unless you actually buy items.  I'm not sure what the point of having this mechanic was that couldn't be achieved equally as well by just forcing you to lose a set number of rupees every time you die.  I guess there had to be some sorta rupee sink, though, considering all the different places you can get money.

 

The story is pretty standard Zelda fare, although there's a couple of plot twists that are actually pretty interesting and the ending was surprisingly compelling, I felt.  Not groundbreaking or heart-wrenching, no, but enough to where you felt some sympathy for the characters.  Most of the characters were generically tropey or Zelda mainstays, but they were all likable and fun, so whatever.

 

Maiamamiamiamaimaiais are the cutest lil things ever.

I think it's a pretty good, maybe great Zelda game, but not one of the all-time best.  I'm not sure how it holds up as a sequel to A Link to the Past... I think in terms of mood it actually shares very little in common with that game -- as non-linear as it goes out of its way to be, it feels more obstacle and puzzle focused like a modern Zelda than exploration and combat focused like its predecessor.  It's also far, far less difficult than its predecessor, as you might expect.

 

I guess if I were to give it a numeric rating... uh... a low 8/10 would probably be suitable.

[Hunter P Brown]

Still stuck on

 

Spoiler

Yuganon in Lorule Castle.

This 3 heart, no bottle, no tunic and no shield run is hard now.

Come on, I'm almost that far, not a single death so far (though I've used about 120 fairies at this point), you better do it before I catch and surpass you.

[Moosh]

So Hero Mode...Hero Mode does not screw around. I'm trying to do a minimalist Hero Mode run and I get the feeling I'm going to be visited many times by the instant death fairy before this run is over.

[HylianGlaceon]

So Hero Mode...Hero Mode does not screw around. I'm trying to do a minimalist Hero Mode run and I get the feeling I'm going to be visited many times by the instant death fairy before this run is over.

 

Have fun, while you are at it, you should attempt the IoR demo with Green Tunic, 3 hearts and Wooden Sword for the entire thing.

 

Though by minimalist, does this mean you can't use the Rental Shop items if the dungeon does not require it? (insert stunning item here) plus Hammer/Sword still will wreck most enemies.

 

(Seriously though, it's probably more doable than the IoR demo with that equipment. Hero Mode is still kind of a joke even with 4x damage.)

[Jared]

Come on, I'm almost that far, not a single death so far (though I've used about 120 fairies at this point), you better do it before I catch and surpass you.

I'm NOT using fairies or bottles at all. So it's easier for you. Shut up, Paden.

[Octorockoncrack]

Well now I've beaten all the Dark World dungeons, just gotta get my L4 sword and head off to the castle. This is what I think of the game so far:

 

spoilers

The beginning started kinda slow, but that's almost how it always is (look at WW and TP).

 

I think they did well so far with the development of Yuga's character, even though they don't really go too in depth with him. You know what you need to know, and thats about it. He at least has better development that Angham or whatever, who is practically non-existent in most of Alttp.

 

I thought the item rental system was cool, because it gave you a lot of freedom to pick what items you want, in almost whatever order you want. Ravio is.....well he's not a really bad character, there are many worse characters in Zelda games (I don't want to imagine if they decided to make Tingle the item salesmen). All in all, I kinda liked Ravio, and I thought his little companion was cute (cant remember the little thing's name).

 

As far as the items go, I have two huge complaints, and I call them Sand and Tornado Rods. If you could move and float for a bit after using the Tornado rod, and if the sand rod would pull up the square of sand you stand on, they would be infinitely more useful. But as they are here, they're just.......shitty gimmick items, and I felt incredibly disappointed after buying each of them. Aside from those, I really have no complaints about anything else, and the Nice items are pretty good while powered up, and even look pretty badass (the nice hammer looks anything but nice).

 

Onto Dungeons:

 

For the most part I liked the Light World dungeons, but not the House of Gales. That dungeon just kinda got on my nerves, and everything looked the same to me. The Eastern Palace was good for a first dungeon. It's easy enough to get you into the feel if you've never played Zelda before, and it didn't really bore me, though a lot of it I don't remember. In my opinion Tower of Hera easily wins for best Light World dungeon.

 

As for the Dark World dungeons....well they are just hit or miss for me, but I'd say the same for the other 3 as well.

 

Swamp: Well, it's a water dungeon, what else do you expect? They did some pretty cool things in here, like the water slides and using the hookshot to lower/raise the water. Home to my favorite item in the game too. Boss was just a rehash, but it was done really well. One of my favorites, but maybe that's because I was able to beat him without getting hit. >_>

 

Turtle Rock: I had absolutely no fun in this place. It took me at least two hours of wandering through the dungeon, just to accidentally figure out that you're supposed to use the ice rod on the middle of those see-saw things to freeze them in place. Even with knowing that though, the two big middle rooms were just a pain in the ass for me to navigate. And as it turns out, the hylian shield was completely useless for me, I think I blocked 1 magic attack throughout the entire game. Only thing that doesn't make me think of this dungeon as complete crap is the boss, which was actually really fun to fight. Also, kinda weird that they switched this dungeon's location, even though I understand why. Turtles belong in a lake, not on top of a mountain.

 

Ice Ruins: Hands down one of the best dungeons I've ever played. The ruins had SO much to them, and the atmosphere of the music was genuine. I got stuck in this place for about 20-30 minutes, yet I had no problem wandering around because I liked the place so much. I was disappointed to see that the stamina scroll only gave you a tiny bit more to your stamina bar. I thought they were going to double it, like they would usually do in Zelda games. This place also has the best boss in my opinion. It looks intimidating like a boss should. It had cool attacks (pun intended) that weren't incredibly difficult to dodge, but if you weren't on your toes it could prove to be a problem.  

 

Skull Woods: Have to admit, this isn't exactly the most memorable dungeon, in fact all I really remember is getting the master ore and fighting the boss. And honestly, I imagined a Wallmaster boss doing a bit more than just the same two attacks over and over again. All in all this felt kinda bland, but at least it wasn't confusing as hell compared to the dungeon in Alttp, but Mothula was way better as a boss.

 

Misery Mire/Desert Shrine: This was another one of my favorite dungeons. I really liked the whole feel to the Desert Shrine, although the sand rod has to be one of the most disappointing items in Zelda history. I think this was the 2nd to last dungeon I did, so going that long without the titan mitt, yeah I'm not doing that again. Going to the Dark World for the boss fight (while everything else was in the Light World) was pretty cool, too. And this boss was also a good fight, IMO.

 

Thieve's Hideout: Don't exactly have too much to say on this one. There's not much to it except rescuing the girl from the prison cell. And that wasn't exactly the thing I had the most fun with, either. The boss definitely made up for this though, it had a cool gimmick to it, and was a really fun fight.

 

Dark Palace: Now this place.....I don't know, I just don't like it. The overall theme of the dungeon was pretty simple, yet it made you think. The bombs were also used really well in this dungeon. But it just wasn't something I liked doing. One of my least favorite, but I can't really put my finger as to why I didn't enjoy it. I did enjoy the boss though, even though it kept trampling me into a pancake. >_>

 

Not much else to say besides that, I'd say the game is worth the play. Compared to other Zelda games, well I thought it was better (or at least more interesting) than Alttp. Wouldn't call it one of my favorites, but it's still good

Edited by Octorockoncrack, 29 December 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Nicholas Steel]

I would comment on more dungeons as I've completed a few more since then but I'm struggling to remember them :O I need to play through the game more then once for things to be remembered easily :/

I can say this though, the Dark Palace is so far my favourite dungeon.

[thepsynergist]

When I beat the game, I completely forgot about the boomerang.  Probably would have made the game easier.

[Russ]

And now that I've beaten it... spoilery stuff about the story first.

 

Spoiler

So I didn't go in with high hopes... but ugh... As far as stories go, that was easily the worst story in the entire series. There was potential there, with Hilda's motivations, and Yuga could have been an interesting villain as a result, but no, let's just make him Ganon 2.0 instead. Ravio... That was a twist even Shyamalan would be ashamed of. And it opens up plenty of plot holes. Coward? Okay, I can take that. But then to go and just sponge off Link the entire game, put the world at risk by being greedy, try to "save" Hyrule yet let Link walk right into trap after trap... I'm sorry, but my opinion still stands about him: the worst character the series has ever given us. The seven sages brought plenty of other plot holes with them. Since when do they control the Triforce of Courage? Why not just force them to create it rather than the elaborate trick? Why force Link to go through seven dungeons and get them all anyways when Hilda could have just staged holding Yuga back when he first transformed while Link grabs all the sages before the fly out of the room, frees them, and gets the Triforce? And wishing a new Triforce into existence. Oh lordy that brings with it it's own set of problems. If we can get the Triforce and wish for more Triforces, what's to stop us from essentially getting infinite wishes? Why didn't Ganon just do that to break free of the Dark World in LttP?

 

Basically the entire plot is terrible and nonsensical.

 

Now, next major point: The rental shop. My opinion of it hasn't changed since I first heard about it: It's absolutely terrible. It breaks any sense of flow in the game, and takes the curiosity out of wondering why item will solve these puzzles lying around the dungeon, and the excitement once you get the item and figure out how to use it to solve said puzzles. Instead, you just buy every item at the game's start and off you go. And also because it can't be stated enough, Ravio is an absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible character.

 

Next point: The difficulty. The game is way too easy. I stuck with no armor, no shield, no bottles, and no sword upgrades the entire game and still didn't die until I hit the final boss. That's just pitiful. What happened to challenge?

 

Next point: The dungeons. I feel like they're kinda 50/50. Eastern Palace, Ice Ruins, Turtle Rock, Swamp Palace, and Palace of Darkness were good. The others were bland, linear, and failed to really come together as a whole. There were interesting puzzles, sure, but they just railroaded you from start to finish with no real sense of exploration.

 

Next point: The LttP 2.0. If LttP hadn't existed, this would still be a great game, despite its faults. But... the fact remains that it basically stole half its content from LttP. Almost anything good the game did was present in a game released twenty-two years earlier. It just feels lazy, and took out the sense of excitement most Zelda games have. Exploring was fun, but there was no magic in it. It wasn't "Ooh, I wonder what's over this hill", it was "Oh hey, I wonder which of these rocks which haven't moved an inch in twenty years the squid is hiding under. Oh it's that one. Eh."

 

So overall verdict? Well, it's better than the Four Sword series, Phantom Hourglass, not that that says much. Past that, it's below basically every other Zelda game, with the possible exception of Ocarina of Time. It was fun and all, but for trying to emulate such a great game, it sure missed the mark by a lot.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I... you probably think I'm going to be really critical.

 

I think A Link Between Worlds was a great game. Listen, I agree with everything Russ said about the story, but it clearly wasn't the story that was the focus point here, and I'm glad it wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I prefer a proper story in my Zelda, but after Skyward Sword, which focused way too much on telling its story rather than actually letting us play the game. But ALBW didn't bother with that, it was all about the gameplay.

 

And I agree, this game isn't incredibly bold or taking the series in brand new directions. But I think the rental system was a great way of letting us explore the same Hyrule once more, along with adding an element of economic risk for the loss of all of your hearts. Sure, you didn't die often, but at least you were thinking about it all the way through. I know I was. It's a mechanic that adds some elements of Dark Souls to Zelda. That's kind of cool.

 

The bosses weren't exactly memorable, and I couldn't list them off the top of my head. There's lots of things about this game that I could dislike, but at the same time I had a lot of fun with it. It felt fresh and new without really changing too much, and while it could have been a whole lot more, I tend to look at it in a different light. I don't see everything that could have been, but I do - very clearly - see where this game could end up taking the Zelda-franchise as a whole. And that interests me a whole lot.

 

However, if Nintendo ends up releasing The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Lands on the Wii U next, then yeah, they're not doing it right. ALBW is a great foundation to work with, but I wouldn't want the exact same model used from now on, I'd rather see Nintendo take what they learned from making this 3DS game, and then using that information to develop a truly new 3D Zelda. But it's Nintendo we're talking about, so they're probably just gonna release Skyward Sword HD or something stupid.

 

But at least I really enjoyed ALBW. I'd say it's a great game, with its flaws. I do understand where people like Russ are coming from when they're criticizing it, but this is one of those games where simple, fun gameplay is enough for me (it usually is not).

[Aevin]

Russ: You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I can't help but feel you're being rather hyperbolic. The worst story in the entire series? Given the exceptionally bare nature of the stories in games like Zelda 2, Oracle of Seasons or Four Swords, it's hard for me to see that statement as anything but an overblown reaction to something new. There was real effort put into this story, and many of us were moved by it. I think you could easily come up with explanations for those plot holes with a little imagination if you only wanted to.

 

Your attitude toward the game in general seems so utterly negative ... Is it really so bad to let yourself be entertained?

 

About the triforce of courage ...

Spoiler

It seems to me that Link HAD to go through the dungeons and complete a grand journey in order for the courage within him to grow powerful enough for the sages to summon the triforce.

Edited by Aevin, 07 January 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Russ: You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I can't help but feel you're being rather hyperbolic. The worst story in the entire series? Given the exceptionally bare nature of the stories in games like Zelda 2, Oracle of Seasons or Four Swords, it's hard for me to see that statement as anything but an overblown reaction to something new. There was real effort put into this story, and many of us were moved by it. I believe you could easily come up with explanations for those plot holes with a little imagination if you only wanted to.

 

Your attitude toward the game in general seems so utterly negative ... Is it really so bad to let yourself be entertained?

 

About the triforce of courage ...

Spoiler

It seems to me that Link HAD to go through the dungeons and complete a grand journey in order for the courage within him to grow powerful enough for the sages to summon the triforce.

The thing about games, movies books and other entertainment media, if you have to let yourself be entertained, the question can be raised: is the original content really all that entertaining if you have to make an effort for it to be enjoyable?

 

There is no clear answer to this. There are games where you actually do have to make an effort if you want to have any chance of actually liking it. Any complicated RTS game comes to mind, where you do need to learn the game before you can start enjoying it. I do not however, feel that Zelda falls under this category. If Zelda fails to entertain you, it's probably not you who is doing something wrong, but the game may simply not be for you.

 

A game being popular does not mean it's going to be universally loved. I'm sure there are some popular games out there that you've despised.

[Aevin]

I can understand your point, but if we're talking about putting "effort" into a game, it goes both ways. Sometimes it seems like people put too much effort into hating things. What I meant above is not that you should have to force yourself to like a game. Just don't go in hating it from the very beginning.

Edited by Aevin, 07 January 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[Russ]

Russ: You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I can't help but feel you're being rather hyperbolic. The worst story in the entire series? Given the exceptionally bare nature of the stories in games like Zelda 2, Oracle of Seasons or Four Swords, it's hard for me to see that statement as anything but an overblown reaction to something new. There was real effort put into this story, and many of us were moved by it. I think you could easily come up with explanations for those plot holes with a little imagination if you only wanted to.

Bland? Possibly. But at least they're not self contradictory. Plot holes are generally bad, and LBW is chop full of them. And I don't think I can overstate how much I hate Ravio. Just he alone about wrecked the story for me; everything else was just heaping more fuel onto the fire.

 

Your attitude toward the game in general seems so utterly negative ... Is it really so bad to let yourself be entertained?

 

Eh, sorry, that's more force of habit. When people give something more praise than I feel like it deserves, I tend to get a bit critical. In this case, my attitude while playing the game was more or less "How did people sing such high praises of this", so yeah, tended to be a little hyper critical.

 

Sometimes it seems like people put too much effort into hating things. What I meant above is not that you should have to force yourself to like a game. Just don't go in hating it from the very beginning, because it looks to me like that's part of what happened here.

It's not that I went in hating it. I actually went in fairly excited. New Zelda game, based off LttP, non-linear, I was excited. I knew it wouldn't live up to the hype, but I thought it'd be pretty good. And then it just started to prove me wrong. And it's not that it's a bad game. I just feel like it really tried too hard to be LttP when it would have done much better as it's own thing. And I feel like it oughta have scrapped the story altogether. And the rental shop.

[Aevin]

And I don't think I can overstate how much I hate Ravio. Just he alone about wrecked the story for me; everything else was just heaping more fuel onto the fire.

Heh ... Honestly, I'm kind of intrigued by your loathing for the character. Worse than Tingle?