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Zodiac, Story of the Guardian


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#811 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 01:08 AM

What I mean is that I realize the "damaged-one-tile-above-where-you-should-be" is a real thing and there's a few rooms I noticed where I could design the room around it.  I don't know if you noticed, but the grey stone passage back from the Pisces Corridor 1 got tweaked awhile back for that very reason, and I've seen some similar problems in other rooms on MeleeWizard's play through.

 

I'll get back around to implementing these fixes and starting up on the manual this weekend.  I've been really churning along on my C++ / Allegro education in the meantime, to the point where I've got a little side scrolling platformer (real side scrolling, not ZClassic style) programmed -- even object-oriented, kinda!  I might even do a little tech demo of "Zodiac: What it Would Look Like in Not Zelda Classic" for practice.  Don't expect me to port the whole game, though; I've got other ideas, and implementing Zelda Classic's scripting language and data types is still well beyond my abilities.


Edited by C-Dawg, 23 September 2015 - 01:09 AM.

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#812 Anarchy_Balsac

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 11:35 AM

What I mean is that I realize the "damaged-one-tile-above-where-you-should-be" is a real thing and there's a few rooms I noticed where I could design the room around it.  I don't know if you noticed, but the grey stone passage back from the Pisces Corridor 1 got tweaked awhile back for that very reason, and I've seen some similar problems in other rooms on MeleeWizard's play through.

 

I'll get back around to implementing these fixes and starting up on the manual this weekend.  I've been really churning along on my C++ / Allegro education in the meantime, to the point where I've got a little side scrolling platformer (real side scrolling, not ZClassic style) programmed -- even object-oriented, kinda!  I might even do a little tech demo of "Zodiac: What it Would Look Like in Not Zelda Classic" for practice.  Don't expect me to port the whole game, though; I've got other ideas, and implementing Zelda Classic's scripting language and data types is still well beyond my abilities.

 

Yeah, I recommend going 8-bit on that if you can make it work.  It'll cut your workload down drastically.  And don't procrastinate on anything. or you'll never finish.



#813 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 11:49 AM

Re: 8-bit: I don't know what you mean by "8-bit."  I'm working on a modern PC, after all - I got bits and bits and bits!

If you mean graphics resolution, I'm now working in a 32x32 tile system, and it's just fine. Not slowing me down at all, I don't think.  I am restricting my palettes severely, but that's more because I want to have a level of artistic uniformity within areas of the game.  ZClassic enforces this by default, too, and I think that's a good thing.

 

Re: Procrastination: Hey, sometimes real life gets in the way for five years.  You gotta prioritize, man.  But, absent that... have you SEEN me work?  Stuff gets done, yo.  I started from nothing in mid September, and I've already got a few hundred tiles for the first area, most of the animation tiles and graphics for my little soldier dude, learned what I need to know about Allegro, found the secondary software suites I need (like Mappy) and learned how to use them and integrate them into C++ projects, and now I've got X-box controller support in a little platformer complete with screen scrolling and zoom support.  Just finally started building things in an Object-oriented style and it took me one night to get everything functional using objects instead of structs.  I've got TONS more to learn about all of this, but I'm feeling pretty good about myself and I don't think procrastination is really going to be a problem.   :)


Edited by C-Dawg, 23 September 2015 - 11:51 AM.


#814 Anarchy_Balsac

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:19 PM

Yeah I was talking about pallettes.  And my point about procrastination is that's how most of these projects die, the person takes a sabbatical, then gets overwhelmed when coming back to it and never finishes.  I had to spend a full 6-8 months worth of long days just to finish a simple Contra clone.



#815 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:24 PM

Yeah, but I tend to finish stuff over the course of a decade, though, so I got time. ;)
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#816 Deedee

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 02:44 PM

Can't wait for the C++ version! What version of ZC will it run in? 2.7? XD

.

..

...

That was a joke, in case you were wondering.


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#817 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 12:29 PM

And as Redmage Adam pointed out in the LP, the Guardian's portrait in the upper left is colored lighter in Gemini compared to the other areas. I checked my old maps, and the same color lightening happens in Libra. None of the other ten areas, nor the Warp Zone, are mis-colored like Gemini and Libra. I didn't screenshot the Inside DMap rooms or the Pandora, or any of the Corridors, so I have no idea if any of those are mis-colored as well.

 

Scorpio, Gemini, Libra:

5fmws8u.png


Edited by newstarshipsmell, 24 September 2015 - 12:37 PM.


#818 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 12:35 PM

That's something that has to do with the way palettes are drawn,  but I can fix that.  Added to the list:

 

1. Increase HP of early Zodiac bosses

2. Decrease damage from Scorpio and Leo weapons

3. Fix final boss so he doesnt asplode when he touches Leo

4. Make spikes "stand out" more in Aquarius; possibly make the spikes shiny?

5. Tweak vertical shaft on right of Aquarius so you don't get frustrated bonking your head 

6. Find out why the Aquarius boss can lose his shield sometimes (he's a wimp without it!)

7. Consider putting some of the manual stuff into the intro because NO ONE READS THE MANUAL.

 

8. Fix issues NSS identified here http://www.purezc.ne...=54#entry974071

9. Fix rooms with squid shooters to deal with offset damage issue

10.Fix issues with damage on Ray Crystal large beam



#819 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:12 PM

4. Make spikes "stand out" more in Aquarius; possibly make the spikes shiny?

hHTcU1d.png

(yes, this is a joke)


Edited by newstarshipsmell, 24 September 2015 - 01:13 PM.


#820 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:40 PM

Oh my.

I'm going to put that into Zodiac somewhere.

#821 Moosh

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:54 PM

That's something that has to do with the way palettes are drawn,  but I can fix that.  Added to the list:

Are you sure this isn't fixed by the No Palette 3 CSet 6 Fix rule under NES Fixes? I've never experienced palette problems in ZC like that so I assume it must be a rule of some sort.



#822 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 02:08 PM

Oh and if you want to be a huge jerk - add some scripted enemies in Virgo that reuse the spikeball tile for their sprite. Have them spawn anywhere that's adjacent to a spikeball on the screen. Have them remain stationary until you're within 2-3 spaces of them, and then BAM! They zip towards you and explode for a fair amount of damage. And of course they're invulnerable to Sidearm shots / Zodiac Weapons, so you can't clear them from the screen at a safe distance (possibly make them vulnerable to charged Taurus Flame shots, if you feel like being an incomplete dick.)

(They wouldn't have to spawn outside of solid combos, and would ignore them for movement - sometimes randomly spawning inside combos could be a subtle clue to player to watch the fuck out.)

(And I just realized - this might simply teach clever players to immediately backtrack from and return to any rooms they enter with spikeballs in them, to look for the ones that shift positions. Not sure if that's a bad or good thing to you.)

Oh and did you see that Highsight's preview video was finally posted? https://www.youtube....h?v=wjJl9KZjVe0

ETA:

M51 S05: Message string needs revision:

AREAS.  FUTURE CREWS REMEMBER, THAT THERE IS
A WEAK FLOOR IN THE ROOM IN WHICH WE
INSTALLED FOUR TURRET SHOOTERS.

Also, the spacing (space before A on 2nd line, many spaces before INSTALLED on the 3rd.)

This is for Gemini 49's cave room, referencing Gemini 58, which no longer has 4 fireball shooters, having been replaced with scripted turrets, but only three. If you replace FOUR with THREE or add another turret to the room, keep in mind they'll still spawn atop each other sometimes, obfuscating the total, and anyways, it's not all that hard to find now that the bombable blocks are higher up, and can be easily shot firing sideways above them. So maybe put something else in this terminal?

Pisces 0C:
qj3BaEG.png

You cannot walk through this open gate heading to the right - unless you R/dash, in which case you'll move through it. None of the other gates in 0D or 0E behave like this. Clearing the enemies in 0C does not change the gate's behavior. Also, 0D is clearly set up as a boss fight room with gates on either side, with two more powerful enemies inside the room, yet the gates don't close/force a fight/i.e. warp you to another DMap/boss fight/etc. I know this screen used to have a previous boss which you subsequently discarded; just pointing out it seems weird to leave the gates there without them doing anything, unless you just want to mess with the player and/or there is some other/later significance I'm overlooking.

Leo 5A/5B: Are these cutscenes purely optional? I belatedly noted on this last playthrough that you aren't actually prevented from proceeding past the Dr. Mo/Iron cutscene to the switch, if you don't visit these two rooms and see their scenes play out. I think the path on the right in 59 is still open when you backtrack after flipping the switch (which I still avoided 5A, wanting to see if you could return later and trigger its cutscene) but when I came through here after destroying the core, it has two combos blocking it, presumably to keep the player from viewing cutscenes out of order. Does missing them have any consequence, beyond the player not getting to see them? ETA: Also, as demonstrated by MW, you can fire down at Dr. Mo and Victor in Leo 59/cutscene while they're chatting. This has some amusing charm, but some shot-absorbing floor combos below you could also eliminate it here, as well as any other rooms with cutscenes like this one.

Flameskull 2: Here's another boss that likes to make my missiles vanish into thin air... Anyways, I dropped his meter to zero while he was on the left side of the screen. He promptly ceased attacking, and then slowly slid downwards into the lower-left corner of the screen:

L5abdMM.png

Obviously, I did not acquire the Wallet 1 this round. Plus, just pointing out, the whole "make him start moving sideways halfway through" mechanic you introduced to his two instances actually makes him easier. While he's centered horizontally during phase 1, it's damn nigh impossible to do him much damage from below due to his flame attacks; once he begins moving left/right in phase 2 you are able to whittle him down much more quickly since you can lead him while firing your ship cannon but avoiding his flames. Not necessarily a bad thing, since phase 1 feels a bit tanky anyways, so this sort of rewards the player for persevering that far. Of course, he has to actually die at the end but whatever. ETA: In case it matters - I think I shot him with an explosive missile when this bug triggered - on the subsequent attempt I pummeled him with the cannon at the end and he exploded normally.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 03 October 2015 - 04:10 AM.


#823 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:50 PM

A/B Assignment: This gets messed up when you quit ZC and resume play later. I noticed this happening recently, but since it never reassigned expendable items to my buttons, I just ignored it. But I ironed out what's going on today.

When you save, it stores your A/B assignments. However, if you quit the client entirely, the next time you launch ZC, and resume Zodiac, it will reassign your A/B buttons as follows:

State upon last Save/Quit => State Upon subsequent ZC session/load game

A: Sidearm, B: !Sidearm => A: no change, B: no change

A: !Sidearm, B: !Sidearm => A: Sidearm, B: no change

A: !Sidearm, B: Sidearm -> A: Sidearm, B: Explosives (probably Missile Launcher before you gain Explosives.)

Strangely, if you then F6/RETRY, and resume your Zodiac slot without closing/reopening ZeldaClassic, your original assignments will be restored.

If, instead, you F6/CONTINUE, your assignments will still be altered as above. If you F6/SAVE, it will save the altered assignment, so that if you then close/reopen ZC, you'll have the same altered assignment, but F6/RETRY and resume will no longer restore your original assignment.

This happens exactly the same way whether I use ZC 2.50.1 or the custom quickscroll build, even if I save/quit from one and launch/resume from the other.

This is happening with the most recent closed beta you sent me, playing with the all-in-one bundled archive from the project download page.

So I'm guessing it has something to do with how you've scripted the quest to prevent the wrong items from being assigned/available upon resuming if you died/quit inside a corridor and resume inside the labyrinth. If this were assigning expendable items to the buttons, then I'd be concerned, but since it only seems to be able to reassign either your Sidearm or Explosives to one or both buttons, it would appear cosmetic, if annoying, and not critical to fix. Just pointing it out.

 

Windrobes: Forget if I posted this before, but apparently their warps do not reset your continue point to the level entrance, when they warp you there. I exited the cave room in S55 and headed over for Wallet 2, and got hit by one in S10; it warped me back to the entrance at S47. I F6/Continued (to cheaply refill lifemeter) and resumed from S55. So even though normally simply entering a level entrance screen (with or without going through the warp) sets your continue point there, it somehow didn't get set this time (but leaving/returning to/leaving the entrance screen and F6'Continuing does resume from the entrance, as expected, since returning to it after leaving presumably resets it then.)

 

Also, the other warps (or at least, those lining the floor in S15) do reset your continue point to the level entrance, even though they warp you to S22 rather than S47.

 

Massive Ghoma 2: Just a follow-up report. It would appear the charged Scorpio Sting (and probably some other charged shots) deal a great deal more damage to his phase one form, which has a separate lifemeter from his phase two form, and he's set to retreat upon his lifemeter falling below a certain point. This time, I only knock him down to almost dead before he retreated and second form emerged, with replenished lifemeter, because I fired it sideways at him, so it went past him as he retreated upwards. But firing a charged Scorpio shot upwards while underneath him will kill him every time, as he takes continuous damage from it and retreats along its path. This causes the aforementioned explosion in the upper-left corner and failure of second form to emerge. Dunno, this good be an acceptable "trick" to beating him easily? Or not.

 

ETA: Also, the boss at S19 on the way to the Ice Beam - he moves slowly from side to side, so the charged Sting is particularly effective against him. If you jump and fire it sideways from the side of the room when he reverses and moves across and away from you, he'll generally stay close enough to the shot to take 4-5 hits while crossing the screen; it took me about 5-6 shots to kill him. So not horribly unbalanced, just pointing it out in case you don't want him that easy.


Edited by newstarshipsmell, 04 October 2015 - 02:23 PM.


#824 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 06:57 PM

How's your new game design/programming coming along?

 

I found a few more quirks with the Libra Crystal.

 

The crystals interfere with the charged shot - if one passes through while its expanding, it will suppress ice from forming in the respective quadrants. Since you have to fire them to start charging, this forces the player to wait for them to expire, or begin charging on a previous screen.

 

Also, it is acting very buggy, and suppressing quadrants for no apparent reason - sometimes suppressing all four. This seems to happen most often in the middle of the screen, though it happens elsewhere. At the Libra entrance in M29 S47, I cannot find any spot on the screen where it will form. If I head over to the cave room inside S46, it will fail to form in parts of the center of the screen and in the lower left corner. If I backtrack into the entrance to Libra, M11 S6A, it also fails to form near the center of the open space. It seems to work normally in some other rooms, though I haven't thoroughly tested it to see if every spot works, or if the same exact locations always do or do not suppress it. It's kind of hard to test on my end, so I hope you can figure it out. Since it's kind of critical to something... I'm hoping this doesn't lead to a frustrating dead-end.

 

So yeah, it's not working in a lot of other places too. Like Pisces 5D, I cannot ascend to 4D with it, but used the IB instead to go up there. Strangely, after I grabbed the EMU and F6/Continued, resuming from the cave door at 0A, my character spawned four pixels below where its supposed to. When I moved and jumped around, I continued to land four pixels lower than I ought to. This continued across cave door warps, as I went in and out of the cave, and separate rooms, as I scrolled the screen several times. It resolved after I F6/Continued again. Not sure if I was doing anything in particular to trigger it when I F6/Continued the first.

 

Example:

kAs9jJQ.png

 

And the regular Libra Crystal is still shitty in tight passages. In horizontal 1-combo passages, firing it will cause all the crystals to rapidly bounce and expire. Firing it vertically in a vertical passage will cause the angled crystals to quickly expire, leaving only the center crystal to ascend/descend. I'd suggest introducing some sort of random variable to their rebound angles, and setting them to expire after a set time rather than set number of bounces. Maybe they could disintegrate at the end, like the charged shot, if they don't hit anything besides walls?


Edited by newstarshipsmell, 07 October 2015 - 07:59 PM.


#825 MaximumCDawg

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Posted 07 October 2015 - 09:49 PM

If you wanna see the new game, I made a devlog thread over here:

http://www.purezc.ne...topic=68309&hl=

 

And hopefully this explains it if I'm a bit quiet and slow to act on the Zodiac front in the short term!


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