899 replies to this topic

[newstarshipsmell]

Nice. It's rare that quests give you an after-game activity to do. Pretty awesome.

What did you think of the snippet of strategy guide map I made in the post above? Is the 15% or so transparency of the non-visible stages okay? Should they be blacked out? Should the frames be larger? Should the map be half the size?

I think it would make more sense to simply trim out the screens beyond where you can explore for each leg. That would make the images narrower, so you wouldn't have so much deadspace taking up room in the finished product.
 
I'd suggest having an arrow from the entrance to destination, along the most direct route (using multiple maps and arrows if there's more than one goal within a given leg/area.) For the first leg, since the Missile Launcher is along the route to the Pulse Hammer, you could just use one arrow, and put the Missile Launcher icon along the route, too. For the first trip to Gemini, you'd have one arrow leading to the switch Iron guards, and then another map with an arrow leading to the Shield boss/Grapple Beam. (With the arrow, I'd say keep it simple and have the beginning/end centered in the respective screens, and each segment passing through the center of each screen, rather than trying to make it literally follow the path you must take inside each screen. It would look far messier doing the latter.)
 
The minor upgrades could just have icons displayed on the screen they're in (or the screen with the entrance to the cave room they're in.) If some of them are non-obvious to reach (inside a cave with a hidden door, along a route with a secret path, etc.) then you could just include additional text instructions on how to reach those, maybe?
 
The resolution looks just right - detailed enough to see the individual rooms without being intricately detailed and needlessly huge. I'd say make the icons about twice as large as they are now.
 
Perhaps for the return visits to areas you've been before the subsequent maps could darken the previously visited rooms (not nearly as much as the border rooms, maybe like 50-75%?) That way the new areas you can explore stand out on the new map - if there's a room you've been to before with something you can now access, you could leave that screen undimmed.
 

Well I envision just adding a script to every item pickup, not counting random drops or Life Tanks. So, you get an item, it adds to your "completion counter." Items that have scripts on pickup already just get an additional few lines of code, and those without a pickup script get a generic "counter+" script.

Then, I just make sure I know for sure how many items there are in the game. The completion counter is the numerator, the set number I counted is the denominator, and you get a percentage. Easy peasy once I have an accurate count of the number of items in the game.

Choose 3 rooms are not a big deal; whichever one you pickup will give you +1 and the room just gets tallied as 1 when I'm counting the total.

Does that make sense?

What about the terminal messages? Could you increment a counter each time you read one the first time, but not on subsequent visits? Some of them are in hard to reach spots with no items inside to "reward" the player (beyond enjoying your well-written plot/backstory, heh) so counting them towards completion would give the player an extra reason to reach them, if they care about the completion percent.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 03 September 2015 - 09:16 AM.

[MaximumCDawg]

@Shadowtiger: Yeah, that seems fine, with the privisio that I was thinking more along the lines of what NSS says.  That is, each page only has a map of the part you can get to or reasonably go to; the rest is just cropped.  I can add lines and comments and whatever later, it'll depend on layout.  It'd just be nice to start with the raw map graphics ready to go.

 

@NSS: I don't want to make completion depend on anything that would be difficult to measure, like terminal messages or room visits.  Yeah, it could be done, but I'm trying to pick my battles carefully here.  I'm going with item pickup only.  

 

These last few bits will hopefully improve replay-ability enough that the game has some staying power.  Just to recap, in addition to the garden variety game (what MeleeWizard is doing on his Lets Play) the game will have:

 

1. Four endings, ranging from worst to best (done);

2. Boss Rush mode unlocked if you get the 2nd best ending (done, but needs some window dressing);

3. Fighter Rush mode unlocked if you get the best ending (done, but needs bug testing and window dressing);

and

4. A completion percentage tally (not done, and will probably wait until everything else is totally set in stone for a final count).

 

I mulled over having a "hard mode" long enough to figure out how I'd do it.  I'd have completing each Rush mode give you one half a cryptic joypad password (like the Konami Code).  Then, if you entered it on the initial cinematic, the idea is that it would disable the use of Life Tanks and reduce your starting HP to 64.  Doing much beyond that would be too much work.  This is easy enough to do that perhaps I'll implement it?  I dunno, depends how fast the rest of the stuff gets bugtested.

 

I'm loathe to issue a final release until I'm sure it's all bug-free.  I think we're still on track to be finally done long before the Lets' Play even so, so thats good.  

 

EDIT: Fighter Rush appears mostly bug-free now.  Playing through it really highlighted how boring some of the Fighter levels are, so... more enemies, more bullets, several new enemy types to the rescue!  

 

Gemini 1 and 2 - Added Dive Tuskers.  They swarm down from the screen in a pack, quickly make a wave pattern, and then dash back towards the top.  They explode into bullets if you kill 'em.  Also tripled the number of mine ships that spawn in Gemini 2.

 

Taurus 1 - Added Shock Guards.  Just slow moving, wave-pattern enemies that clog up the screen to make it more difficult to quickly deal with Fire Lords and other creatures that make projectiles.

 

Pisces 2 - Added packs of Amenomes.  Because this corridor was far, far too tame compared to Pisces 1.

 

Virgo 1 and 2 - Added some Tuskers and a DNA Shooter 2, which is just stronger and more damaging that the old pathetic DNA Shooter.

 

Aquarius 1 and 2 - Put DNA shooters here, too.

 

I think I need to make it so that your top-tier upgrades degrade over time (in Fighter Rush mode). I don't want to make the upgrades drop less frequently, for fear that you get totally screwed later in the Rush if you lose your high-tier gun, but the gun just MURDERS early levels so trivially... so, yeah, I think I'll make the top level go away after thirty seconds or something unless you keep gobbling upgrades.

 

EDIT2: Implemented gradually degrading weapons and modified passive subscreen in Fighter Rush to match.  Whew.  I think the Fighter Rush is in pretty good shape, now.  I think Im ready to link it to the game itself and add the window dressing around the Rush modes.

Edited by C-Dawg, 05 September 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[newstarshipsmell]

Are the ship upgrades in Fighter Rush purely random drops, or can you code them to drop guaranteed within a certain number of kills, sort of like how you get guaranteed whip upgrades in Castlevania? The former would seem really cruelly chance-based. I remember playing Legendary Wings and basically giving up and starting over if you died later on in the game, because it became impossible to recover sufficient firepower quickly enough after dying to continue playing. Dunno if the same thing would happen here, in the later levels?

 

ETA: Actually, if they degrade over time... Hmmm. You could eliminate them from the enemy drops and code up a single capsule "enemy" that dies and drops a ship upgrade, and then code those into each level with a frequency tailored to how hard it is. This would give you the finest control over setting up how quickly the player can beef up their ship per level without either overpowering them too quickly or leaving them unfairly underpowered too long.

 

You could maybe even have the capsule slowly cycle between the three different upgrades, so it drops the one displayed when you kill it, giving the player some choice in the matter, if that doesn't throw things off by letting them beef up the main weapon too quickly.

 

How does Health and Energy work? Do you start off with a set amount similar to beginning the game and get upgrades over time from enemies?

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 05 September 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Ah, well, they are random but pretty common. Unlike legendary wings, you have access to an arsenal of subweapons in Zodiac. Other than ship attributes, you have everything you collected during your run; or that you go back to get afterwards.

Did you know that high level bombs and the volt key kill enemy bullets, for example? It's true, losing your level 5 shot on Virgo or higher is a huge problem, but you have to get creative to revive.

Also, I disabled the Energy Dynamo during Fighter Rush. It was too broken with the ship bomb. Without it, then bomb is another resource to manage.

Right now I'm working on stubborn bugs related to the stashing of items during Fighter Rush so you get them back when you return to the normal game.

Edited by C-Dawg, 05 September 2015 - 06:29 PM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Welp, that's all working. It's a fun little game all its own, the fighter rush is, right up until you meet Grimgrin 2. MAYBE he can be defeated. ...?

I will spend a little time trying to get Hardmode functional ( having some trouble getting the game to accept konami code -like input ) and then excrete a version for the locked testers. Other than tweak and bug fixes, then I think I'm done.

On to the manual and walkthrough!

Edited by C-Dawg, 06 September 2015 - 12:26 AM.

[newstarshipsmell]

By the way, have you considered posting this on IndieDB? Seems like it might get a fair bit more exposure if listed there.

[newstarshipsmell]

Probably unimportant, but I noticed two items with misspelled internal names, C-Dawg:

Pieces Spread (should be Pisces Spread - or was this a joke to yourself?)
Disentigrator (should be Disintegrator)

Oh, and some more guide ideas, ShadowTiger:

It might be worthwhile making separate maps for the route to the main objectives, and for minor upgrades you can gather along the way. That way, someone who just wants help for one thing can look it up without spoiling the rest. So if a player become stumped where to go next, they can consult the objective map, and if they're struggling to beat a certain boss, they can look around to see if they've overlooked any Sidearm upgrades, Heart Containers and whatnot to beef themselves up a bit more.

The minor upgrades maps could just have the upgrades icons displayed on each screen they're located on; if they require extra work to obtain (e.g. clearing all the enemies, inside a cave room, behind a bombable wall/secret passage/etc.) that could be displayed in text below the map.

You could add the hexadecimal numbers to the rows and columns on the maps along the left/top borders, for ease of referencing things.

Also, you can mention within the steps of the walkthrough where you can explore later areas earlier on, in order to gather minor upgrades, if you wish. Obviously you won't be able to gather everything you will later on, since you'll be relatively underpowered and whatnot; Pisces has a fair number of easy to get upgrades before you're ready to get the Stun Beam. Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are likely trickier to gather stuff early on - but I haven't tried myself.

Here's a pretty comprehensive outline of what the maps would look like by my suggestions. Obviously, some things can be rearranged, and some maps can either be separated or merged. I didn't include details on all the minor items, just which zones you can gather new ones with each major upgrade. It should probably indicate to the player that just because you can reach a given area or corridor doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to pass it yet. I skipped both Gemini corridors and the first Taurus corridor and came back to clear them after gaining the Black Hole Armor (and a bunch more Life/Energy/Sidearm power, of course.)

 

If you're unsure which item and where I mean for a given upgrade/area, ShadowTiger, shoot me a PM and I'll give you the DMap/Screen. I can look over whatever you come up with and let you know if you missed anything. I probably have overlooked a few minor things myself.

Spoiler

Spaceflight
Star Tank

Aquarius 1: Missile Launcher, Pulse Hammer, Shield Module**
AQ map to S7A: Pheagon (ML), on to S49: Mega Pheagon (PH)
Additional AQ map with minor items on the way to PH

Subsequent AQ map with new minor items gained by PH

AQ map to S54: Crabbor (SM)

 

Scorpio 1: Explosives 1
AQ map to S38 switch, on to S15 switch, on to S70 SC entrance 1
SC map to S02 Iron 1, on to S20 switch, on to S64: Massive Ghoma/S63 Ex1

Additional SC map with minor items on the way to Ex1
Subsequent SC map with new minor items gained by Ex1
Additional map for AQ for new minor items gained by Ex1 (all I can think of is the Overdrive Adaptor. But hey, you can get it.)

 

Aries 1: High Jump, Fighter Cannon 2** (Corridor 1*)

AQ map to S36 AR entrance
AR map to S60: Ray Crystal (HJ)
AR map to S76 switch, on to S00 C1: Mecha Crab (FC2)
Additional AR map with minor items on the way to HJ
Subsequent AR map with new minor items gained by HJ
(Early Pisces)

Cancer 1: Fighter Blast 2** (Corridor 1*), Disintegrator Beam
AQ map to S09 switch, on to S41 CN entrance
CN map to S6E C1: Silk Sprayer (FB2)
CN map to S3D Iron 2, on to S3C switch
CN map to S2A switch, on to S28: boss*** (DB)
Additional CN map with minor items

Scorpio 2: Explosive Missiles, Dash Jets 1, Heart Container** (Corridor 1*), Scorpio Sting*

SC map from entrance 1 to S51 switch, on to S50: boss*** (EM)
AQ map to S0B SC entrance 2
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S5D switch, on to S2A: Cactawhirl (DJ1)
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S73 switch
SC map from S00 entrance 1 to S74 C1: SkeleSnake (HC)

SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S2F: ZP boss/S2E ZW

Additional SC map with new minor items gained by DB
Aquarius 2: Aquarius Bubble*
AQ map to S02: ZP boss/S03 ZW

Pisces 1: Fighter Jets 2*, Stun Beam (Corridor 1), Energy Max Up** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S00 PI entrance
PI map to S79: Crabbor 2 (FJ2)
PI map to S3D C1: Squidboss (SB)
PI map to S2F switch, on to S23 C2: Crushfish (EMU)
Additional PI map with minor items

Gemini 1: Grapple Beam 1, Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 1*), Fighter Cannon 3** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S07 switch, on to S67 GE entrance
GE map to S04: Iron 3/S14 switch
GE map to S64: Shield Armor (GB1)
GE map to S43 switch, on to S75 C1: Beam Platform (OA)
GE map to S79 C2: FlameSkull (FC3)
Additional maps for AQ, PI, AR for new minor items gained by GB1
Scorpio 3: Wallet 1** (Corridor 2*)
SC map from entrance 2 to S0F C2: FlameSkull 2 (W1)
Aries 2: Aries Saber*
AR map to S50 switch, on to S08: ZP boss/S18 ZW

Leo 1: Repair Module 1**, Double Jump Boots
AR map to S50 switch, on to S0B LE entrance 1
LE map to S19 switch
LE map to S62: Magnet Man (RM1)
LE map to S05: Mainframe/S06 DBJ/S09 switch
Additional LE map with minor items
Additional maps for AQ, SC, AR, CN, PI, GE for new minor items gained by DJB

(Early Libra)

Cancer 2: Cancer Splatter*
CN map to S7A switch, on to S60: ZP boss/S70 ZW
Pisces 2: Pisces Spread*
PI map to S6F: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Gemini 2: Advanced Comsat 1**, Gemini Twin*
GE map to S3F AC
GE map to S4F switch, on to S7E: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Taurus 1: Repair Module 2**, Missile Pack** (Corridor 1*), Black Hole Armor**
GE map to S1A switch, on to S4C TA entrance
TA map to S21 RM2 -409e
TA map to S15 C1: Megamagma (MP)
TA map to S3D: Ray Crystal 2 (BHA)
Additional TA map with minor items

Libra 1: Sidearm Rapidshot** (Corridor 1*), Explosives 2**, Wallet 2**, Ice Beam
CN map to S6A LI entrance
LI map to S76 C1: SubZeroCutter (SR)
LI map to S34 Ex2 -380e
LI map to S12 W2 -409e
LI map to S42 switch, on to S19: boss***, on to S2F: Massive Ghoma 2/S1F IB
Additional LI map with minor items
Cancer 3: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 2*)
CN map from S6A entrance 2 to S6D C2: Grimgrin (OA)

Taurus 2: Wall Cling Boots
TA map to S0F switch
Additional TA map with minor items above/beyond S4E
TA map to S08 Iron 4, on to S09: Vector Defence, on to S0A WCB
Additional maps for SC, AR, CN, PI, LI for new minor items gained by WCB
(Early Virgo)
Gemini 3: X-Ray Scope**
GE map to S06: boss***/S05 XRS
Libra 2: Libra Crystal*
LI map to S61: ZP boss/S62 ZW

Leo 2: Energy Dynamo 1**, Super Missiles (Corridor 1)
LE map to S54 ED1
LE map to S18 switch, on to S0D: Big Tank, on to S0F cutscene, on to S5F C1: Cruiser 2 (SM)
Additional maps for AR, GE, TA, LI for new minor items gained by SM
(Early Capricorn)
Taurus 3: Taurus Flame*, Fighter Jets 3** (Corridor 2*)
TA map to S2F switch, on to S51: ZP boss/S40 ZW
TA map to S79 C2: Tentacle Armor (FJ3)
Gemini 4: Energy Dynamo 3**
GE map to S2B+Inside ED3
Virgo 1: Stomp Boots**, Fighter Blast 3* (Corridor 1*), Virgo Whip*
SC map to S1A VI entrance
VI map to S2B switch, on to S37 switch, on to S44: Cactawhirl (SB)
VI map to S79 C1: SilkSprayer 2 (FB3)
VI map to S35 switch, on to S54: ZP boss/S53 ZW
Additional VI map with minor items

Capricorn 1: Anti-Gravity Device, Capricorn Wave*
PI map to S03 CP entrance
CP map to S14 switch
CP map to S2D switch, on to S4D Iron 5, on to S4E AGD
CP map to S64 switch, on to S03 switch, on to S6F: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Additional maps for AQ, GE, LE, LI, CP for new minor items gained by AGD
Leo 3: Leo Lazer*
LE map to S2B ZP boss/S2C ZW
Aquarius 3: Life Tank (9)** (Corridor 1*)
AQ map to S56 switch, on to S7F C1: Fungual Orb 2 (LTx9)
?????? 1: ??????
?? Map to S3B

Aries 3: Voltiac Key, Heart Container** (Corridor 2*)
AR map to S05: boss***/S04 VK
AR map to S3C C2: Cloak Wing (HC)
Additional maps for new minor items gained by Voltiac Key - are there any?

Warp Zone

It's probably pointless to provide a map of the Warp Zone (since it's pretty self-explanatory) nor the locations of the warp gates scattered throughout the Zodiac, since all of them will have appeared within the preceding maps in the guide somewhere before this point. While six of them are reasonably well hidden, the other five are out in the open and likely for a thorough explorer to stumble across before acquiring the Voltiac Key. None of them lead to new areas to explore. So perhaps just a note here with a picture of one and explanation what they're for, and that the player can access all of them upon gaining the Voltiac Key.

Libra 3: Dash Jets 2, Energy Dynamo 2** (Corridor 2*)
LI map to S3D Laserbeam, on to S6E: Squidboss 2/S5E DJ2
LI map to S7D switch, on to S0D C2: Cloak Wing (ED2)
Additional maps for AR, CN, LE, TA, VI, CP, ?? for new minor items gained by DJ2
Aquarius 4: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S06 C2: SubZeroCutter 2 (OA)
Aries 4: Repair Module 3**
AR map to S3E+Inside RM3

Pisces 3: Grapple Beam 2**
PI map to S72: SilkSprayer, on to S74 GB2

Virgo 2: Fighter Cannon 4** (Corridor 2*), Spin Attack**
VI map to S63 switch, on to S0F C2: Fungual Orb (FC4)
VI map to S7A switch, on to S50: Crabbor 2/S51 SA
Additional maps for CP, ?? for new minor items gained by SA
Scorpio 4: Supernova Armor**
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S4E: Mega Pheagon 2/S4D SNA
Pisces 4: Explosives 3**
PI map to S06+Inside Ex3
Capricorn 2: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 1*),
CP map to S67 C1: Tentacle Armor 2 (OA)

?????? 2: Infinite Jump Boots*, Zodiac Changer**
?? map to S1D: SkeleSnake 2, on to S2E IJB
?? map to S0F: SkeleSnake 2/S0E ZC
Additional ?? map with minor items

Leo 4: Heart Container** (Corridor 2*)
LE map to S00 C2: Mecha Crab 2 (HC)

Capricorn 3: Fighter Cannon 5** (Corridor 2*)

CP map to S0F C2: Grimgrin 2 (FC5)

Aries 5: Dr. Mo
AR map to S66 Dr. Mo

AR map from S66 to S35 LE entrance 2
LE map from S7F entrance 2 to S1F Pandora flight

Pandora flight
Pandora: Boss
PA map to final boss

* Optional, but required later
** Optional, and not required
*** Not sure what the boss's names are

Advanced Comsat 2 needs to go in there somewhere - haven't found it yet, so no clue where it goes. Never mind if it's not a main-sequence item, I guess.

C-Dawg, Stomp Boots could be made more useful if you felt like creating a combo that can only be destroyed by standing on top of it with them - and have it trigger explosions in adjacent linked combos. If you design their placement so the player can't simply walk across the trigger from the side, but must jump up/fall onto it, it would simplify avoiding that (rather that coding it to only trigger when you land on it vs. walk across it, if that aesthetic matters to you.)

Examples:

Scorpio 3E - replace the 3 sandblocks with a 1x2 vertical sandstone block (perhaps with cracks drawn in darkened shades?) Leave the top sandblock spot empty so you must fall onto it. Then Stomp Boots become required in order to gain the Supernova Armor.

M51 S41 - Add another bubble at pos53 (to block DJ2) and add a SB trigger combo at pos123 with a linked combo to the left. Then the player can still find Energy Dynamo 3 before gaining DJ2 (and gaining access to ED2 corridor) but still must get the Stomp Boots to actually pick it up. (Alternatively, just add another bubble combo at 123 to require DJ2 to reach it, rather than Super Missiles only.

 

...But I know you said you're done adding new stuff, just bugfixing. So I'm expecting a big "nope."

 

Also, were you planning on making it a PDF? I dunno much about them - could it be created with a hyperlinked TOC? Alternatively, you could create it as a CHM help file, which would let you organize it nicely so the player can navigate directly to the relevant section/subsection, without spoiling anything else. Plus you could add appendices for items, enemies, NPCs, etc. Each unique item's appendix page could be hyperlinked to the relevant section for gaining it; all of them could get their own little descriptions.

There's OSX programs that read CHMs, though I'm not sure about Linux (going off the Wikipedia page without bother to research further) so there's that if cross-compatibility is a desire.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 09 September 2015 - 11:41 PM.

[MaximumCDawg]

That's a lot of ideas, and I'll look through it this weekend when I address your bugs.  It is safe to say that I probably will shy away from adding new functionality unless it's addressing a serious flaw of the game, though.  Gotta cut it loose at some point! 

 

As far as PDFs go, yeah, you can embed hyperlinks in them, but I only mention that format because it's easy for people to read.  You set up the page and print it from whatever document editor / publishing program and there you go.

 

(In other news, it turns out Allegro is very easy to learn.  I'm up to having sprites move around the screen with keyboard input, sounds, and fonts.... should have the basic stuff done by next week.  I will then need to delve more deeply into the organizational side of things to understand how to use Visual C++ to help me organize things.  I'm sure I will eventually hit a wall and start bugging people for help with things like mappy and controller support, but things are going faster than expected for sure.)

[ShadowTiger]

Thanks for the input on the maps. I was wondering just to what depths those maps could be created.

I had imagined a "heat map" of an entire zone which indicates where you can go depending on how many progress-related powerups you have. The greener it is, the earlier your restrictions are, and the redder it is, the later on you can get the item.

It would also have a separate (but nearby) panel describing its interior areas, also to a heatmap sort of color scheme.

But that's only a rating for progress at a glance. It would only be a summary of the grand scheme of each area. The real meat and potatoes of an actual strategy guide would be an area by area progress map, just as Starship described above. (Thank you again for that; that's awesome.)


How about maps of the alternate area? Do you think the six exploration teams' rooms should be mapped anywhere in the guide?

If you want to do that, Shadow, I could export the maps from the current version for you tonight in full size.

That would be most lovely. I'm a tad wary of taking them from an older unlocked version for obvious reasons. But although I do have quest password unlocking utilities, (Who doesn't these days. ) I don't want to use them out of respect for the quest's author. Not that big of a universal concept there.

Once I have the maps, I can just plug them right into the frame. The template was made to be very elastic. Photoshop's layering ability is extremely useful in that respect.

[MaximumCDawg]

Let me get you the maps after I address some bug reports later this week.  That should minimize the number of changes the screens will undergo before being totally done.

 

EDIT: Also, I didnt mention it earlier -- awesome job on the play-by-play of route and items!  I did something very similar when I laid out the game initially, but since then it's mutated so much I totally lost track of what you can get when except for the critical items.  

 

The Scanner 2 is hidden pretty decently, and there's a clue somewhere that's ALSO hidden to tell you where it is.  So there's two chances to find it.  The only thing you really need to get it is the Ice Beam, but other upward mobility items would be helpful.  

 

Did I describe what it is in this thread yet?  if not: when you have Scanner 2, holding "UP" at a room with a door between the Zodiac zones brings up a menu that shows you exactly which Corridors and Projects have been completed and which remain to be done.

Edited by C-Dawg, 10 September 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[Deedee]

Spoiler

Spaceflight
Star Tank

Aquarius 1: Missile Launcher, Pulse Hammer, Shield Module**
AQ map to S7A: Pheagon (ML), on to S49: Mega Pheagon (PH)
Additional AQ map with minor items on the way to PH

Subsequent AQ map with new minor items gained by PH

AQ map to S54: Crabbor (SM)

 

Scorpio 1: Explosives 1
AQ map to S38 switch, on to S15 switch, on to S70 SC entrance 1
SC map to S02 Iron 1, on to S20 switch, on to S64: Massive Ghoma/S63 Ex1

Additional SC map with minor items on the way to Ex1
Subsequent SC map with new minor items gained by Ex1
Additional map for AQ for new minor items gained by Ex1 (all I can think of is the Overdrive Adaptor. But hey, you can get it.)

 

Aries 1: High Jump, Fighter Cannon 2** (Corridor 1*)

AQ map to S36 AR entrance
AR map to S60: Ray Crystal (HJ)
AR map to S76 switch, on to S00 C1: Mecha Crab (FC2)
Additional AR map with minor items on the way to HJ
Subsequent AR map with new minor items gained by HJ
(Early Pisces)

Cancer 1: Fighter Blast 2** (Corridor 1*), Disintegrator Beam
AQ map to S09 switch, on to S41 CN entrance
CN map to S6E C1: Silk Sprayer (FB2)
CN map to S3D Iron 2, on to S3C switch
CN map to S2A switch, on to S28: boss*** (DB)
Additional CN map with minor items

Scorpio 2: Explosive Missiles, Dash Jets 1, Heart Container** (Corridor 1*), Scorpio Sting*

SC map from entrance 1 to S51 switch, on to S50: boss*** (EM)
AQ map to S0B SC entrance 2
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S5D switch, on to S2A: Cactawhirl (DJ1)
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S73 switch
SC map from S00 entrance 1 to S74 C1: SkeleSnake (HC)

SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S2F: ZP boss/S2E ZW

Additional SC map with new minor items gained by DB
Aquarius 2: Aquarius Bubble*
AQ map to S02: ZP boss/S03 ZW

Pisces 1: Fighter Jets 2*, Stun Beam (Corridor 1), Energy Max Up** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S00 PI entrance
PI map to S79: Crabbor 2 (FJ2)
PI map to S3D C1: Squidboss (SB)
PI map to S2F switch, on to S23 C2: Crushfish (EMU)
Additional PI map with minor items

Gemini 1: Grapple Beam 1, Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 1*), Fighter Cannon 3** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S07 switch, on to S67 GE entrance
GE map to S04: Iron 3/S14 switch
GE map to S64: Shield Armor (GB1)
GE map to S43 switch, on to S75 C1: Beam Platform (OA)
GE map to S79 C2: FlameSkull (FC3)
Additional maps for AQ, PI, AR for new minor items gained by GB1
Scorpio 3: Wallet 1** (Corridor 2*)
SC map from entrance 2 to S0F C2: FlameSkull 2 (W1)
Aries 2: Aries Saber*
AR map to S50 switch, on to S08: ZP boss/S18 ZW

Leo 1: Repair Module 1**, Double Jump Boots
AR map to S50 switch, on to S0B LE entrance 1
LE map to S19 switch
LE map to S62: Magnet Man (RM1)
LE map to S05: Mainframe/S06 DBJ/S09 switch
Additional LE map with minor items
Additional maps for AQ, SC, AR, CN, PI, GE for new minor items gained by DJB

(Early Libra)

Cancer 2: Cancer Splatter*
CN map to S7A switch, on to S60: ZP boss/S70 ZW
Pisces 2: Pisces Spread*
PI map to S6F: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Gemini 2: Advanced Comsat 1**, Gemini Twin*
GE map to S3F AC
GE map to S4F switch, on to S7E: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Taurus 1: Repair Module 2**, Missile Pack** (Corridor 1*), Black Hole Armor**
GE map to S1A switch, on to S4C TA entrance
TA map to S21 RM2 -409e
TA map to S15 C1: Megamagma (MP)
TA map to S3D: Ray Crystal 2 (BHA)
Additional TA map with minor items

Libra 1: Sidearm Rapidshot** (Corridor 1*), Explosives 2**, Wallet 2**, Ice Beam
CN map to S6A LI entrance
LI map to S76 C1: SubZeroCutter (SR)
LI map to S34 Ex2 -380e
LI map to S12 W2 -409e
LI map to S42 switch, on to S19: boss***, on to S2F: Massive Ghoma 2/S1F IB
Additional LI map with minor items
Cancer 3: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 2*)
CN map from S6A entrance 2 to S6D C2: Grimgrin (OA)

Taurus 2: Wall Cling Boots
TA map to S0F switch
Additional TA map with minor items above/beyond S4E
TA map to S08 Iron 4, on to S09: Vector Defence, on to S0A WCB
Additional maps for SC, AR, CN, PI, LI for new minor items gained by WCB
(Early Virgo)
Gemini 3: X-Ray Scope**
GE map to S06: boss***/S05 XRS
Libra 2: Libra Crystal*
LI map to S61: ZP boss/S62 ZW

Leo 2: Energy Dynamo 1**, Super Missiles (Corridor 1)
LE map to S54 ED1
LE map to S18 switch, on to S0D: Big Tank, on to S0F cutscene, on to S5F C1: Cruiser 2 (SM)
Additional maps for AR, GE, TA, LI for new minor items gained by SM
(Early Capricorn)
Taurus 3: Taurus Flame*, Fighter Jets 3** (Corridor 2*)
TA map to S2F switch, on to S51: ZP boss/S40 ZW
TA map to S79 C2: Tentacle Armor (FJ3)
Gemini 4: Energy Dynamo 3**
GE map to S2B+Inside ED3
Virgo 1: Stomp Boots**, Fighter Blast 3* (Corridor 1*), Virgo Whip*
SC map to S1A VI entrance
VI map to S2B switch, on to S37 switch, on to S44: Cactawhirl (SB)
VI map to S79 C1: SilkSprayer 2 (FB3)
VI map to S35 switch, on to S54: ZP boss/S53 ZW
Additional VI map with minor items

Capricorn 1: Anti-Gravity Device, Capricorn Wave*
PI map to S03 CP entrance
CP map to S14 switch
CP map to S2D switch, on to S4D Iron 5, on to S4E AGD
CP map to S64 switch, on to S03 switch, on to S6F: ZP boss/S7F ZW
Additional maps for AQ, GE, LE, LI, CP for new minor items gained by AGD
Leo 3: Leo Lazer*
LE map to S2B ZP boss/S2C ZW
Aquarius 3: Life Tank (9)** (Corridor 1*)
AQ map to S56 switch, on to S7F C1: Fungual Orb 2 (LTx9)
?????? 1: ??????
?? Map to S3B

Aries 3: Voltiac Key, Heart Container** (Corridor 2*)
AR map to S05: boss***/S04 VK
AR map to S3C C2: Cloak Wing (HC)
Additional maps for new minor items gained by Voltiac Key - are there any?

Warp Zone

It's probably pointless to provide a map of the Warp Zone (since it's pretty self-explanatory) nor the locations of the warp gates scattered throughout the Zodiac, since all of them will have appeared within the preceding maps in the guide somewhere before this point. While six of them are reasonably well hidden, the other five are out in the open and likely for a thorough explorer to stumble across before acquiring the Voltiac Key. None of them lead to new areas to explore. So perhaps just a note here with a picture of one and explanation what they're for, and that the player can access all of them upon gaining the Voltiac Key.

Libra 3: Dash Jets 2, Energy Dynamo 2** (Corridor 2*)
LI map to S3D Laserbeam, on to S6E: Squidboss 2/S5E DJ2
LI map to S7D switch, on to S0D C2: Cloak Wing (ED2)
Additional maps for AR, CN, LE, TA, VI, CP, ?? for new minor items gained by DJ2
Aquarius 4: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 2*)
AQ map to S06 C2: SubZeroCutter 2 (OA)
Aries 4: Repair Module 3**
AR map to S3E+Inside RM3

Pisces 3: Grapple Beam 2**
PI map to S72: SilkSprayer, on to S74 GB2

Virgo 2: Fighter Cannon 4** (Corridor 2*), Spin Attack**
VI map to S63 switch, on to S0F C2: Fungual Orb (FC4)
VI map to S7A switch, on to S50: Crabbor 2/S51 SA
Additional maps for CP, ?? for new minor items gained by SA
Scorpio 4: Supernova Armor**
SC map from S18 entrance 2 to S4E: Mega Pheagon 2/S4D SNA
Pisces 4: Explosives 3**
PI map to S06+Inside Ex3
Capricorn 2: Overdrive Adaptor** (Corridor 1*),
CP map to S67 C1: Tentacle Armor 2 (OA)

?????? 2: Infinite Jump Boots*, Zodiac Changer**
?? map to S1D: SkeleSnake 2, on to S2E IJB
?? map to S0F: SkeleSnake 2/S0E ZC
Additional ?? map with minor items

Leo 4: Heart Container** (Corridor 2*)
LE map to S00 C2: Mecha Crab 2 (HC)

Capricorn 3: Fighter Cannon 5** (Corridor 2*)

CP map to S0F C2: Grimgrin 2 (FC5)

Aries 5: Dr. Mo
AR map to S66 Dr. Mo

AR map from S66 to S35 LE entrance 2
LE map from S7F entrance 2 to S1F Pandora flight

Pandora flight
Pandora: Boss
PA map to final boss

* Optional, but required later
** Optional, and not required
*** Not sure what the boss's names are

Advanced Comsat 2 needs to go in there somewhere - haven't found it yet, so no clue where it goes. Never mind if it's not a main-sequence item, I guess.

Just saying, but that "?????" zone is called "Sagittarius". Yeah.

Okay, I need help with Crabbor 2. I am visiting Pisces early, what strat should I use?

Edited by Dimentio, 10 September 2015 - 11:00 AM.

[MaximumCDawg]

Well, the first mistake is visiting it early!  I wouldn't want to tangle with him until you at least have the Explosive MIssiles, and preferably the Aquarius Bubble too.  The easiest thing I think is to equip both, and keep the bubble up.  Don't let his body touch you, and try to use the same bait-and-dodge as you did with him the first time.  The bubble should give you lots of virtual health against him since you get a break in between his bubble shots.

 

 

Just saying, but that "?????" zone is called "Sagittarius". Yeah.
 

 

He's being coy, because getting there, and what it is, is a pretty big plot point in the game.

Edited by C-Dawg, 10 September 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Deedee]

Okay, that would probably be a good idea.

Another question, but why doesn't Sagittarius have a Zodiac Weapon? It really should, as it just feels awkward having only 11 Zodiac weapons when there are 12 symbols on the Zodiac. It would also make sense, seeing how you get the Zodiac Changer there. Maybe have the Sagittarius weapon be hidden in another zone, or even have it be located in Dr. Mo's lab?

[MaximumCDawg]

By the way, have you considered posting this on IndieDB? Seems like it might get a fair bit more exposure if listed there.

 

What, you mean like this?

 

http://www.indiedb.c...dian-final-beta

 

Exposure = NOPE

 

 

Okay, that would probably be a good idea.

Another question, but why doesn't Sagittarius have a Zodiac Weapon? It really should, as it just feels awkward having only 11 Zodiac weapons when there are 12 symbols on the Zodiac. It would also make sense, seeing how you get the Zodiac Changer there. Maybe have the Sagittarius weapon be hidden in another zone, or even have it be located in Dr. Mo's lab?

 

 

Thematically, I get your point.  The symmetry of the item system is a little wobbly at that point.  Plot-wise, the idea is that the Zodiac weapons are each different results from Margret and Victor tinkering with ways to abuse the capabilities of the alien creatures on the Zodiac.  Since Victor is the only one of them who was able to understand the final Zone you're talking about, and he kept it to himself, they never created a corresponding technology.

 

By digging deeply enough, you do get the Zodiac Changer, however, which represents the complete understanding of the alien's technology.  So Sagittarius doesn't have its OWN weapon, but it does make you much more capable with all the others, if that makes sense.

 

Also, I ran out of good ideas for weapons and I didn't want to shoe-horn something dumb in there just to serve symmetry.  Thematic symmetry is important, don't get me wrong, but I feel like I went down a road that just made completely slavery to that goal a bad idea.

Edited by C-Dawg, 10 September 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[newstarshipsmell]

Ah, I'd wondered myself why

Spoiler

you didn't have a 12th physical Labyrinth area of the Zodiac asteroid called that. I assumed the internal name was just a leftover - figured you'd originally meant to include 12, but came up with the idea of having a simulated area at some point while still designing the higher layout, and decided to turn Sagittarius into it; I figured you couldn't conceive of a plausible plot justification for adding a Zodiac boss/weapon to it at that point (aside from the Zodiac Changer) and couldn't think of a good reason to add another entire DMap to the asteroid to make 12 plus the simulation.

 

It does seem strange that the Alliance folks would name 11 areas after Zodiac constellations if there were no twelfth area too. But not impossible. Without an in-game explanation why, it just leaves one wondering. One of the joke suggestions I never even bothered to make: redesigning the warp zone as a 3x4 map with a twelfth inactive warp gate with a Sagittarius symbol on it (perhaps with obvious physical damage to it.) People would have poked around endlessly trying to figure out how to turn it on and go there or find another way to it elsewhere. But that's kind of on par with my suggestion about the dupe rooms in Libra lying about their coordinates...

 

Anyways, I wasn't being coy - just following the in-game descriptions. The only time the game ever referred to that area as Sagittarius (to the player) was on the subscreen, which you changed to ?????? after I mentioned it was too long apparently and carried over the s to a second line; since that change, there's no other reference to Sagittarius in-game, so labeling it as such in a guide for new players doesn't really make much sense. With the quest file password-locked and cheats presumably disabled in the release version (or password-locked themselves) new players will have no way of knowing the simulation DMap still bears that name. Of course, anyone with above-average intelligence is probably capable of inferring that that area is Sagittarius, and simply not called that explicitly in-game.

 

As far as IndieDB - heh - to be honest, I didn't even realize they had forums. I'd never visited them before. You might get more interest if you posted an actual pending game entry in the main DB rather than the forums, since it is typical for more people to traffic a front page side of a site than dig into/participate in their forums. I don't mean you'll gain hundreds of potential players - you'd probably be lucky to capture a dozen people's interest. But that still seems like a pretty high number in contrast overall to how many folks know about your game, even after posting on likely places like the TGL forums and TIGSource, which barely stirred any response.

 

ETA: Also, I would point out that you screwed up that forum post. The over-sized artwork image pushes the length of the text lines well past the edge of the frame, and their awesome forum software apparently can't handle that by putting a horizontal scrollbar below it. So a fair chunk of your text is unreadable (without selecting-all, copying and pasting it elsewhere.)

 

ETA2: And regarding the sequence outline - I am fairly certain I've now edited it to include every switch you need to visit/trigger in order to proceed - but I've listed them for each leg, even though many of them you would trigger while passing by them earlier on. That's just for completion's sake, so a player consulting the walkthrough for a specific gate they're stuck on can find out which switch they've overlooked and go trigger it.

 

It doesn't, however, cover any of the bomb-this-wall-here spots, e.g. on the way to High Jump or to the switch to open the Dash Jets 1 room. These would all obviously still need to be included in the text for each leg - probably without screenshots, since it's likely sufficient to state "there's a bombable wall on the left/right side of screen XX" to proceed. Additionally, it might reference the terminal room(s) locations that offered a hint to the player about the particular bombwall, when mentioning the bombwall. This would, if they'd missed that room, assure them they weren't simply playing stupidly but missed something, and if they did visit it, remind them of the importance of actually writing down all these hints and consulting them during play. I also mentioned all the bosses by name expecting you might want to include strategy hints for some of the tougher ones as well. I only played through Pandora to the boss once

Spoiler

so I forget if there's anything to do in there besides a direct route to the boss. I remember something about an engine room being a trick or something.

 

And I'm assuming that you don't intend to include any of

Spoiler

the alternate path stuff, including the dig teams

in the guide.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 10 September 2015 - 03:17 PM.