899 replies to this topic

[Solairflaire]

I had grabbed the 6/17 version a couple days ago and played it some not realizing that a new one was released. Oops. I looked through and I don't think I'm repeating anything that's been mentioned as fixed.

 

Major Bug:

 

The Cancer Zodiac Boss doesn't "die" when his health is depleted. It makes the noise like you killed him, but you stay in the boss area with the eyeballs and skeleton pillar thing still there (neither do anything) and are unable to leave. Continue warping causes the boss to come back.

 

Other Bugs:

 

Iron 1: After Fight when he runs away: Gravity is disabled during the runaway animation so you can walk on air for a bit. This might be true for all Iron fights.

 

Pisces 5,4: There are hidden stairways in this room. One is behind the left waterfall. Another is on the left platform directly next to the screen transition. There may be more. I didn't search the whole screen.

 

Pisces 7,0 to 6,0: You can get down to 7,0 and get stuck before getting double jump.

 

Pisces 0,6: Inside Door: The right wall blows up right away. Suggest putting enemies in the room or leaving it empty and making the player use explosives to open it.

 

Gemini 4,3: The secret sound still plays...

 

Gemini 6,7: Eggs don't spawn anything.

 

Aries 0,D: Exiting door starts you in the air.

 

Aries 0,C: Lava is gone after the fight.

 

Leo 0,7: During Cutscene: Tube graphic on top right appears and disappears during cutscene.

 

Cancer 7,3: Exiting door puts you on right side of room.

 

How are continue/save warps supposed to be? I can't find the post where you explained them.

[C-Dawg]

The Cancer boss doesn't die? News to me, I've killed him several times. There must be some corner case where you can get him into some stuck pattern or something. Will look into it.

As for the Continue issues, here's where I explain them:
http://www.purezc.ne...topic=67488&hl=

EDIT: Fixed the issues identified by SolarFlaire, except the Cancer boss one.

Finished Credit Reel, at least for the moment. All the artwork is done, but I will want to double-check to make sure everyone who deserves credit is mentioned.

Finished splash screen for bad ending and script to run it. Making the good ending(s?) will be faster.

 

EDIT: Finished better ending splash art, text, script.  Also finished cutscene with the Zodiac exploding -- somehow I forgot to add that.  Whoops!  I will charge ahead with some more late-game edits without updates.  Why?  Because if I updated now, you wouldn't see anything really.  All the stuff I'm doing is at the end of the game.  Also, it's full of spoilers, so I can't really even show it off.  Rest assured that tons of work is being done.  Particularly on artwork.  Oh how I need a WACOM... drawing with the mouse is so wonky.

 

Anyhoo, I want to tweak some strange behavior of the last boss, make some changes to the final sequences, and  then address more issues with the Cancer boss.  We're getting very close to done on everything except the <<SUPER SECRET INFORMATION REDACTED>> so the time to suggest sweeping mechanics changes or sequence breaks is coming to an end soon.

Edited by C-Dawg, 27 June 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[newstarshipsmell]

This is the only possible way out from below. It's frustrating because it requires precision and luck to avoid breaking the sandblock at Pos 138, forcing you to backtrack and try again. Especially aggravating considering this is a dead-end with nothing to gain. Recommend changing the secret at 138 to a solid grey block.


Giant skull still missing a quarter.


Coral at Pos 78 looks out of place. Accidental?


This room still has a warp glitch (at Pos 96 and 112 below it) post-boss fight, that allows you to walk into the adjoining room on the other DMap.
Also, you can see the door frames do not match across rooms - they are bright cyan in the boss fight, but dark cyan in Aquarius, as well as in the adjoining Aquarius rooms.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 27 June 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[C-Dawg]

Fixed each problem identified by NSSS.  Thank you, sir.

 

EDIT: Continued fixes on final boss.  FFC conflicts identified and removed, I believe.   Also, fixed corner case with missiles allowing strange behavior that was revealed by the final boss.  I may upload update once some more tinkering with the endgame is done, for those who are interested in seeing that kind of stuff.  But, again, it's spoiler-city.

 

EDIT: Continued heavy work on stuff I can't really describe without spoilers.  Mostly updating someone and squashing bugs in very complicated boss code.

 

Spoiler

The last boss -- the REAL one -- was too much of of an unintuitive kick in the nuts.  So, I scrapped the whole tricky approach and made the goal much more direct.  It should still be very difficult, though.

 

EDIT 2 - So, updated to-do list.

 

EDIT: Plot update completed through the arrival at the Pandora.  Just two cutscenes and the credits to go. 

 

EDIT2: Added different music for each corridor.  They're all HPizzle, so there should be some uniformity in the corridor music.

EDIT3: Cutscene with Iron confronting the big bad right before the hour long final battle finally updated.  This one really is a CUTscene.  How droll of me.  Onward to debugging the final battles!

EDIT4: Updated music for last boss and earlier encounters.  Getting too late tonight to repackaged new .ogg files and make a download, so might update tomorrow.  Here's where I am at on the to-do list:

 

(1) Tweak little cutscenes right before closing credits.

 

(2) Improve final boss death; make it more satisfying.  Also, fix music of "flee the ship" trope.

(3) Use a script to force continue points to work how I want them, screw ZQuest.

(4) Tweak volume of music so it all matches.

 

(5) Super Secret Mystery Stuff. This is major, and will require another month to do.

 

(6) Figure out how Cancer boss can die but not die and fix bug.

 

Other than item No. 5, these are all very minor things.  I'll have em done by the weekend, whee!

 

EDIT:5   Improved final boss death.  Re-did the cutscenes where Iron is rescued and you converse with the Commander following that, but before credits.  Looks better now.  Next, I need to give the abandon Iron cutscene a similar treatment.  That should wrap up all the cutscenes in the game, for now.

 

EDIT 6: Fixed cutscene for bad ending, tweaked some of the dialogue at the end so it sounds less stupid and reads better. 

 

Also, I finally got the save / continue points working as intended.  Per Saffith, I just took the issue entirely out of ZQuest's hands by raw-dogging a script that checks to see if the DMAP has changed since the last frame, and if so, sets the continue and reset points if you're in a Zodiac area.  This should be tested more extensively to ensure no bizarre behavior, but from my limited tweaking it appears to be working.

 

EDIT 7: Rebalanced the music by reducing amplitude of a few harsher tunes that were much louder than the rest. 

 

So, just like that, everything except the extra stuff is done.  The only bug fix I know of at the moment is the Cancer boss.  Time for me to dust off the controller and do a whole game playthrough to look for more.

 

In the meantime, Ill upload a new version and new music file so people can grab it and test with me. 

Edited by C-Dawg, 03 July 2015 - 12:20 AM.

[C-Dawg]

So, updated new version with all the fixes, and also added a link to improved music files.

 

Next steps:

1) Play through myself to look for bugs.

2) Talk to Gleeok about finishing up ZQuest release that allows scrolling faster and maybe relative instead of absolute filepaths to the .qst file (if possible)

3) Finish getting musicians to respond.

4) Add alternative ending stuff.

5) Update game manual

6) Write walkthrough (going to be in the style of an old Nintendo Power magazine or circa 90s strategy guide)

[C-Dawg]

So I've played up to destroying the mainframe, and things look pretty good.  I've only got a page and a half of notes, and most are little things.  One major bug I introduced (oops) by fixing the continue points was that, if you Continue after beating a boss, you often end up stuck in the wall.  Since boss rooms are on a different DMAP, my Continue code sees returning from a fight as a time to set the Continue Point.  That would not be a problem except that I didnt bother to set the landing square in those rooms, so... yeah.  Sorry about that.  F6 to Save-Quit and you can continue if you hit this bug.

 

Still finding strange behavior on some, but not all, doors, where you don't end up next to the door when you leave a room.  I will do a total teardown of these rooms to try and fix this.

 

Leo has a bunch of very unfair rooms -- 56 being the worst offender -- that I will revamp.  Hard is fine, guaranteed 128 damage just for walking through the room is not.

 

Other than that, most of what I'm seeing is just very high-level tuning.  A finer grit of sandpaper, if you will.  Which is good!  I think I will make one more public, unpassworded beta once I've finished the fixes coming after my own run-through.

[newstarshipsmell]

One minor graphical issue I kept forgetting to note all instances of: CSet issues with the closed/closing/open gates/doors. I reported some of them, but more often forgot to. Not sure if it's still like that, or whether I reported/you fixed it, but at one point the gate in Gemini to the Taurus entrance would alternate between orange and purple, depending on whether you entered Gemini through Aquarius or Taurus, I think. There may be more light/dark color mismatches like the one for the Aquarius Zodiac Boss, and since I'm playing through on a (relatively) optimal path at this point, I'm not visiting most closing/closed gates before triggering their switches elsewhere and opening them, so if there's CSet issues with the closing doors, I wouldn't even see most of them much less report them. Not sure if they'd be obvious in ZQ or require playthrough to spot them.

Yeah, game is playing mostly bugfree now. Almost there!

[Ranagus]

Hey C-Dawg, I have a few bugs for you.

Spoiler

I suicided my valkyries right off the bat and the screen flashed 10 or 20 seconds before transitioning into the second part of the stage.

 

Found a sweet strategy for these crab bosses.  He's totally stuck!  I stayed close to the wall while he tried to crash down on me, or something to that effect. 

 

Fell down here without the high-jump boots and now I'm totally stuck.  (I think)

 

Missing block in the celling.

 

Enemy placement, a few of the stranger ones at least.

Great game by the way.  I just blew up the computer too -now where to go next, hmmm.

[C-Dawg]

That's something I need to make more obvious, I noticed, since you can skip the commanders pre-computer-fudgety insructions pretty easily, and then the computers don't work. You need to go to Gemini and travel to the right side of the surface to get the Scanner; you can then hijack the network Asian.

Also, I'm feeling like there are way too many efficiency upgrades in the game, particularly in relation to speed. You guys finding that? I'm up to the to the ice beam and my efficiency is maxed out while my speed is 3 and power is 11...

 

EDIT: So I'm past the reactor in Taurus, and yeah, things are looking decent.  The two biggest bugs are that both Wiggler 2 and the Cancer Zodiac boss don't seem to die properly sometimes; you may have to noclip past the Cancer boss to reach the Cancer weapon.  (Spoiler: You can't progress beyond a certain point very late in the game without doing this, so apologies.)  There's a lot of balance issues and suggestions I'm making, but most of the actual bugs should be relatively easy to fix.

 

Also, Gleeok tells me they are planning to release a new version of ZClassic in the month if possible, that it will include faster scrolling, and that it MIGHT be able to include relative filepaths.  If so, my goal is to finish my playthrough, fix all the issues I see, and prepare a download file of the game as I want to eventually package it before July 13.  At that point, I'm out of town for a few weeks so nothing will be done.  Cross your fingers and see if Gleeok and the boys get'er done by then!

Edited by C-Dawg, 05 July 2015 - 11:27 PM.

[Solairflaire]

Also, I'm feeling like there are way too many efficiency upgrades in the game, particularly in relation to speed. You guys finding that? I'm up to the to the ice beam and my efficiency is maxed out while my speed is 3 and power is 11...

 

Unless you make it so the rapid fire blaster uses less energy, you kinda need all that energy. Though I don't think you can max out speed even if you always take speed. What does speed do other than speed up shots anyway?

 

 

 

Could you put the items on platforms in the choice rooms? Or make it like a shop but you select one? Somebody had mentioned doing this earlier in the thread and I don't think it was ever discussed.

 

I do have to say that I think the momentum mechanics make some of the platforming (especially onto those half tile platforms in Cancer) a lot harder than it needs to be in places. Personally, I've never like momentum in games. I like having control of my character and momentum takes away that control. I understand it's your decision. It's better than some other games I've played. It also appears that you speed up if you let go of the direction you're going when near an edge.

 

It's kinda strange for the guardian to turn her whole body to look up and down. Could you make it more like Metroid and have her just aim her weapon up or down?

[C-Dawg]

I've beaten the Engine Core in Taurus and I'm now trolling around Virgo to power up before tackling the second half of Leo.  No major new problems, just minor stuff.  

 

One thing I am liking is the Health Tank count.  I was worried it might be too generous or too stingy, but in my playthrough it feels like just the right amount.  I typically always have 2 left, so I'm always pretty low without totally running out.  Like Cure potions in FF, you do need to consume them at a decent clip to keep progressing, but there are more to find.

 

@Solarflarie: I think I might just have the rapid fire blaster independently reduce the energy cost without affecting ENG directly.  It's just strange to see how massively over-represented ENG is compared to the other two.  And, to answer your question, Speed does three things: makes bullets go faster, to a point; makes your rapid fire gun shoot more rapidly; and when efficiency is high enough that you're firing multiple bullets at once, it spreads them out in a larger arc.  At maximum level, your Sidearm should rival your ship cannon in size and power.

 

I think it's a good idea to put platforms you can walk under in the choice rooms.  It's a small thing that will just avoid frustration when you pick up something you didn't mean to pick up.  Will do.

 

As for momentum, that's going to stay for now.  I like the balance between a little bit of sliding and control that we've got at the moment and I don't want to change it unless we find out it does something horribly broken.  Yeah, it makes some of the Cancer jumps a little more delicate, but it isn't THAT bad.  There ARE some areas of the game that are so terribly touchy that I'm considering making them easier (Leo on the way to the first switch, Taurus where you need to use the Ice Beam) but Cancer's small platforms are actually not one of them.  I know this is a preference thing, so I apologize, but I think it's a better game overall with the momentum in there!

 

Finally, as for the character's graphics: I actually considered going to a fully-scripted solution for the player graphics, which would allow me to do stuff like that.  ZClassic itself can't make the kind of graphics you are talking about because it only gives you one sprite for Up and Down, so you can't have different sprites depending on whether you were moving RIGHT and now you're pointing UP versus the opposite.  The problem with scripting the player sprite is that, if I did that, the player would disappear during screen transitions and item pickup.  That would look really weird.  Also, I have to draw the line SOMEWHERE on additions to ZClassic's default settings, and this seems like a good place to do it.  So, nah, the character will continue to face the direction you push like in LOTW.

[newstarshipsmell]

I was actually going to suggest moving the pick 3 items, especially once you added momentum, as I assumed it was down to luck that I'd never actually grabbed the wrong one ever. But then I actually fooled around and realized that the hitbox for them must only be a pixel or two wide, as you can walk almost entirely on top of them (at least, coming from the right) without "contacting" and acquiring them. Still, it certainly gives the visual impression that you much make perfect jumps between them to avoid an unwanted Efficiency or Speed upgrade (or Energy or Missile expansion.) Even with momentum, I've never slid into one while jumping between them. Cute little aspect of the game that - something that looks difficult but isn't, for a change...

Keep an eye out for other CSet mismatches on the gates/doors. I noticed a few more of them but kept forgetting to write them all down. One that stood out in memory - the gate barring the Taurus entrance in Gemini flipped between orange and purple, seemingly depending on whether you entered Gemini from Aquarius or Taurus. I can't remember if I post that one and you fixed it, or if it's still present in the current demo. Since I've learned the somewhat optimal path through the game (the first two thirds, at least, anyways) I don't go out of my way to visit closed gates before triggering their switches, so if any have bugs on the closed doors, I probably wouldn't even see them. Is it easy to look through the quest in ZQ and spot those or does ZQ somewhat obfuscate it? (Can I just press X then S on all the rooms with gates in them to see if the closed and opening/opened sprites are all colored in correctly?)

The Cancer halftiles are indeed a supreme b**** now, to the point I said f*** it getting that one extra powerup over on the far left side on the first visit to that zone. But not impossible. You do fall down a lot more now, or at least, I do. I like it. Gives me something to complain about.

Correctly working continue points are frustrating me too, lol - ingrained continue warping that no longer works (yes, I realize I could use F6/Save to replicate some of it) has made me go "awwwwww..." a few times, as I prepared to backtrack along sections I skipped over before. (I always skip the huge rupee in Aquarius and come back for it after clearing the far path in Scorpio and spending all my cash on the Power and Missile upgrades, which, yes, was why I kept complaining that you couldn't backtrack up from the Scorpio entrance without bombs before. lol)

Game is really shaping up. Need to power through to the second half since I haven't had a chance to bughunt there for like a dozen or more demos now.

[C-Dawg]

I'm up to Capricorn on my own playthrough, and the biggest new bug I found is a continue point problem in some lower Virgo doors. So, don't F6 there unless you wanna get on the fast train to Taurus...

 

@NewSSS: Is the platforming REALLY that challenging now?  I guess I didn't actually tackle the back half of Cancer until I had the Double Jump on my playthrough, so I was able to one-shot all the eyeballs in my way.  Maybe that made it easier.  Would it help if I removed some of the enemies on those screens in Cancer, upper left?

 

I guess I do remember that climbing back up in Pisces on the first visit was a bitch and a half.  I made sure to have the Aquarius Bubble at the time, though, so I was able to use that to leverage my way back up.  

 

EDIT: Finally finished the initial sweep through Virgo.  You know, finding the way to the boss of Virgo is actually a huge pain in the butt.  At this point in the game, though, I think that this kind of obscurity is acceptable.  And, other than the strange continue and CSet bugs in lower Virgo rooms, I didn't see many bugs.  Here's a question for you guys, though: do you feel like the Zodiac Bosses' health scales too slowly?  It felt like a few of them had too little health for how much damage you are able to dish out, particularly when using their weakness.

 

Next stop: Collecting the remaining Zodiac Weapons in Gemini, Cancer (noclip ftw), Pisces, and Capricorn, and then visiting Dr. Mo to go into Sagittarius. I'm very pleased with the length of the game, even if it is making my playthrough take more than a week to accomplish!

 

By the way, I passed 100 deaths while mucking around in Virgo.  I wonder if it's possible to finish the game with none?

Edited by C-Dawg, 08 July 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[newstarshipsmell]

Cancer half-tiles/enemies are fine, no tweaking necessary. None of the first-visit paths are difficult; just that path over towards the gut/Libra/etc. You aren't supposed to go that way at first, and it's probably a lot easier to pass when your Sidearm is powered up and clears enemies in one hit, so I imagine it will be much easier to pass when I return to go that way later. I wasn't complaining that they were too hard, just sympathy responding to sf.

I haven't tried Pisces yet, and I don't intend to take the bubble with, so we'll see how that plays without it...

[Ranagus]

Thoughts and suggestions:

Right now, with the first switch in Virgo hit, my stats are 18 power, 7 speed, and 17 efficiency.  I've had too much efficiency a couple times; but it’s probably my fault for not choosing power more often.  I only chose speed a couple times, it just doesn't seem to be as important.

Maybe you could add a forced delay between shots that speed upgrades would then be able to shorten. 

What’s the cap for these stats anyway?

 

The half platforms are fine and the escape from Pisces wasn't that bad for me aside from tanking hits for 32 damage at 5, 8.  That moving water at 4, 5 however…

 

I didn’t start fighting zone bosses until after the first visit to Leo.  Aquarius was a joke, and Gemini and Scorpio were easy-ish.

 

Pay-to-recharge stations are kinda pointless when they double as continue spots.  How about setting it up so that the continue functionality is only there after the fee is payed. (permanently hopefully)

 

A few other issues with Wiggler 2 incase you didn’t notice:

The scan beam doesn’t seem to do damage or have any effect. 

Sometimes a purple projectile will stay on the screen, moving very slowly.

The all-direction attack (for lack of a better name) eats your missiles if you shoot too soon. 

 

A couple not-so-obvious bugs:

The corridor at Taurus 15 shut without me completing it.  I tried it a couple times on my first visit without success and returned later after beating the corridor at 7, 9 and hitting the switch at 2, F.  I don’t think I finished this one, and if I did then I forgot to pick up the item.   The secret for the room must’ve been triggered elsewhere?

EDIT:  I just recreated the bug by starting a new file and cheating though the Taurus corridor at 7, 9.

 

 

 

I somehow ended up invisible at Libra 21.  The effect persisted when changing screens but F6ing fixed it.  Not sure what happened, I remember getting hit, a Windrobe spell passing though me while hurt, falling off the bottom of the screen somehow, scrolling back up, and realizing that I can’t see my character anymore. 

Edited by Ranagus, 08 July 2015 - 11:23 PM.