899 replies to this topic

[Saffith]

Sure. I should ask first, though, have you checked allegro.log? Attempts to load music files are logged, so that might tell you something. Also, it looks like you're using 2.50.0. The directory searching was fixed (I think) in 2.50.1, so updating might help.

[C-Dawg]

Damn Saffith, you so fine.

 

Yeah, updating to 2.5.1 totally fixed the problem.  I can now run MP3s!  Time to get back in touch with Mr. Pizzle.

 

On a related note is there any way to tweak the loop starting and ending point of MP3s?  I suppose if there is not, there's probably editing software online I can use to snip the Mp3 itself.

[Saffith]

Nope, sorry. Just have to edit it.

[BigJoe]

If you know someone that can compose tracker music (.it, .s3m,etc), those can be made to loop and work in ZC.

 

By the way, love the new intro and enemies. Its a little more challenging now, and I cant even make it past the giant boss in Aquarius yet. (Before I had gotten to Aries.) Does anyone have a video of beating that thing? I've tried to establish a pattern but he always snaps me with his jaw no matter what, while I slowly try to wittle down his life.

[Din]

Hm. That momentum's a bit tough for me to get used to. The quest makes a lot of use of tile-wide blocks and precise movement at the very beginning, and I ended up mucking up a lot of the jumps in Aquarius that were pretty effortless before. I might just need more practice though - I'd see if you can get another opinion on it.

Oh man, though. I'm loving the changes made to the quest since I tried it out last. The new opening sequence is a great touch, and I'm loving the feel of the sidearm - it seems a lot more useful and reliable now than it's earlier counterpart. Right now I'm not too deep in - just up to the dragon-looking boss that was previously the jellyfish, but great work so far.

Edited by Din, 22 May 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[C-Dawg]

Yeah, everyone, please let me know what you think about momentum.  I can tweak it in almost every way imaginable; more friction, less friction, cap on speed (might be useful when you're talking knockback), you name it.

 

If you know someone that can compose tracker music (.it, .s3m,etc), those can be made to loop and work in ZC.

 

By the way, love the new intro and enemies. Its a little more challenging now, and I cant even make it past the giant boss in Aquarius yet. (Before I had gotten to Aries.) Does anyone have a video of beating that thing? I've tried to establish a pattern but he always snaps me with his jaw no matter what, while I slowly try to wittle down his life.

 

Well, there's a cheap-ass safe spot if you can find it.  Short of that, the idea is to make sure you have all three Sidearm Power Ups that you can get before you face him, and then make sure you move forward as he prepares to bite, and run back once he lunges.  He picks a place to bite based on where you are as he begins his lunge.

 

EDIT: I can only assign MP3s to DMAPs, yes?  Theres' no way to tell the game to play an MP3 on a particular room?

 

Also, man, MP3s play really quietly compared to sound effects and MIDI... hmm.

Edited by C-Dawg, 22 May 2015 - 11:01 PM.

[BigJoe]

With a script it is possible to change the music in a specific room. Game->PlayEnhancedMusic does this.

 

bool PlayEnhancedMusic(int filename[], int track);

 

set an array to the mp3 filename and pass the array to int filname[]. track is irrelevant unless youre using an nsf.

 

Beware of using the other command "SetDMapEnhancedMusic" until the next version of ZC. It will bork your subscreens.

Edited by BigJoe, 23 May 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[C-Dawg]

Thanks Joe, I'll probably add that snippet of code where necessary to get music to play.  However, now that I've actually experienced the glory that is ZClassic's MP3 player function... I wonder if it's worth the bother.  Yucko!

 

Anyway, I messed with the momentum script again tonight.  Between ensuring you can't slide off of non-ice platforms, controlling your top speed on enemy knockback, and adding a small tweak to how it works in the air, I think now you can get the effect without slippin' and slidin' all over the platforms.

 

I also redid the boss life bar code.  Again.  Hopefully it's in the final form now.

[SpikeReynolds]

From the 5/21 build, I can tell you that you're on the right track with the momentum idea. I think it needs to be toned down just a hair, but I like it. Gives this game a little bit more distinction from anything else built on the engine. 

[newstarshipsmell]

Holy shit! The intro is awesome now! Not quite what I'd suggested before, and I wasn't really confident that it (my idea) could be pulled off well in ZC; what you did instead is brilliantly done. (Except the stars moving behind the ship and visible through the outlines - but I guess that is not something you can fix in ZC?)

Do you automatically proceed to the latter half of the stage as soon as all your wingmen die, or do you have to survive a minimum duration with or without them to trigger the second set of strings from the commander?

The momentum stuff... I'm cautiously optimistic it can improve the gameplay if tweaked, but... I think you need to slow down faster. If you fall into the bottom of Aquarius 1C, you can't jump between the spikes without holding up/down to avoid horizontal knockback. The first time I fell down there I was so distracted trying to get used to the momentum that I forgot even to do that (hold up or down) and ended up in an inescapable, vicious loop that quickly killed me, while trying to go left to get out and back up.

I believe the knockback is out of your control, right? It makes sense in overhead Zelda, but works strangely in gravitied sideview mode, but that's just one of those things that can't be helped (I think?) Still, I think it doesn't "make sense" and probably most non-ZC players will find it jarring, so while the later areas might force players (then accustomed to the control quirks) to exploit it, making things deathtrappy without it this early in the game seems... bad? I dunno.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 23 May 2015 - 04:18 PM.

[C-Dawg]

Thanks, glad you like the intro.  There's some later cut scenes that are made the same way, and more are in progress.  It's NES-style psuedo-cartoons!  Hooray!  

 

The graphic issue with the stars is fixable, I just need to tweak some tiles.  In the old NES days you'd see this sometimes, where the background would be visible in the borders of sprites, but that was for a technical reason.  See, the NES could only display 4 colors per tile.  So, one common trick was to leave the outlines of a sprite transparent, particularly in games like Metroid with a black background.  This meant you kind of got your black color for free and you could use 4 other colors on the tile.  ZC doesn't have that problem.

 

The initial flying scene goes on as long as you have wingmen available.  Once they're all destroyed (they start to die automatically if you take too much damage) then enemies stop spawning and the screen proceeds.  One complaint I've got is that this makes the initial level very LONG.  

 

As for knockback, I like it.**  This was a huge part of the challenge of some old school games like Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania, and here, I think it works just fine.  You're right that momentum makes knockback supremely annoying, however.  I'm tweaking.  One possibility I have considered is to make environmental damage objects like spikes and lava deal damage over time, like how beam weapons do.  That would mean you don't knock back at all on spikes, but instead quickly drain your health.  For lava, I might do something like that.  (Also allows me to have an upgrade to your Body equipment that makes you immune!)  This makes less sense for spikes, though, so I don't know if I'll implement it.

 

You're right about momentum needing tweaks, though:

 

From the 5/21 build, I can tell you that you're on the right track with the momentum idea. I think it needs to be toned down just a hair, but I like it. Gives this game a little bit more distinction from anything else built on the engine. 

 

Yeah, I needs tweaking.  In the v 21 version, you could do a running jump and actually go FARTHER if you STOP pushing left or right immediately after takeoff because momentum will carry you faster than you walk.  I think I've corrected that by making sure there is a cap on the speed you can move with pure momentum.  This also makes knockback not quite as bad; when the engine knocks the player back, the player moves at some absurd speed over a short distance. 

 

I also tweaked the code to make it so you can't skid off of a platform unless it's made of ice.  This makes it much easier to get to the very pixel-edge of a block now, actually.  

 

One thing NewStarShip brings up that is possibly a problem is whether momentum makes it too hard to jump up into holes that are one tile  column thick.  I will look into this.

 

** - Nothing is out of my control, but this is one of those fixes that would require a lot of effort since my code is set up to rely on the engine handling collision detection and damage between the player and damaging NPCs or FFCs.

 

Also:

 

So, back when I made the Ice Beam and Stun Beam separate items instead of upgrades of one another, I rearranged the subscreen and now have room for an additional "tool" item.  I'm thinking of making this item be essentially the "Arrow Gas" weapon from Dark Wing Duck (NES), also seen in Quackshot for the Genesis.  

 

I have my gameplay reasons for doing this, but it's secret.  It would involve skipping an otherwise necessary item at one point of the game to take the plot in a different direction.  I like the concept of using the item for this, because it would give the player who finishes the game without it a little hint that there was something they missed along the way.

 

I'm not sure the game needs another mobility device, though.  I mean, we already have the Ice Beam and Libra's Charge Shot that both make platforms.  

 

Here's the fundamental question for you all:  is the Ice Beam + Libra Shot + New Bombs (with player boost) alone sufficient to get from the point of the game where you would normally get the Wall Cling up to the point where you can get the Infinity Jump Boots (i.e. end of the game?)  It can be difficult, that's fine, I just want to know if it's possible.  Perhaps someone could set up a run where they start from Taurus with those items and see if they can get through Virgo, Capricorn, and Sagittarius?  I suspect this is not possible, and that's why the "Arrow Gas" idea is interesting me.  Would clones of Items 1, 2, or 3 from Mega Man 2 be better for this purpose?

Edited by C-Dawg, 23 May 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[newstarshipsmell]

Momentum bugs:

If you're standing below a platform so you're a couple pixels "in" to it, i.e. so that if you jump up, you'll jump up along the side slightly inside it, you will jump normally if not pressing the D-pad/arrows, but if you hold up or down while jumping, the momentum+collision detection or something will propel you away from the side of the platform/wall.

If you're standing on the very edge/corner of a platform and press down (to aim below you) you'll slide off the edge of the platform.

I'm frequently seeing my character accelerate too quickly and go racing off the side of a platform when I walk off the end of it. I can't reliably reproduce it to figure out what combination is causing it, but it happens a lot.

Warping through a door should reset your momentum to zero, if possible, so you don't slide a little on the other side.

Oh, and knockback? Yeah, I LOVE knockback, and Castlevania 1 is one of my favorite games. (I mastered the perfectly useless move of whipping while jumping backwards and was always kind of sad that it didn't ever seem to be useful anywhere in the game, and they removed it from the sequels, heh heh.)

What I meant was this: Zelda is overhead, and the knockback is depending upon your facing rather than which side/direction you're taking damage/being attacked from. It generally works, since it's overhead, and all directions are equivalent, and generally you're facing the things that are damaging you. It still leads to "odd" behavior/mechanics, but not too bad.

Go to sideview, with gravity, and that all changes. Virtually every sideview platformer I ever played either knocked you backwards from the direction of the attack, or only knocked you left/right, in the opposite direction you're facing. With ZC in sideview, you still get knocked opposite the direction your facing, leading to the damage boost exploits and encouraging up/down facing to navigate spots that can give you knockback (spikes, cactii, etc.) This feels much more unnatural than the overhead ZC and standard sideview platform controls.

It's not the end of the world... it's just weird and reminds you you're playing a ZC quest - non-ZC players will probably find it very strange.

[C-Dawg]

These are good observations. I don't think I mind the odd behavior too much, though, for two reasons. One, it should be pretty easy for the player to learn that you get knocked back in the direction opposite from what you are facing. Two, it gives those who figure it out a new trick: avoid knock back by facing up or face down to snag a damag boost. For me, this ends up on the good line between quirky and problematic.

Also, I have some 80s precedent. Remember in legacy of the wizard? You could hold up to avoid damage from enemies and spikes.

[newstarshipsmell]

Right. I was just pointing it out in terms of how non-ZC players would react to it. I of course have no problem with it, and do enjoy it.

Also, as far as making spikes and whatnot continuous damage without knockback:

Would you make them unwalkable, so you can walk above of them, or walkable, so you fall into/through them? Or both? Spikes lining the walls might make more sense solid, while spikeballs (like those around the first corridor in Cancer) might make sense to let you fall through them, as they are now?

However, there's a bug with the solid spikes (in Leo, for instance) where you can stand on the very edge/corner of them (both wall-lining spikes and spikes on the floor) without taking damage/knockback, so you should fix that if possible, if you haven't already.

Also, you've staggered the walkability by halftiles for the cactii in Scorpio (and possibly other stuff elsewhere? I forget) - I assumed this was to simulate "sticking" to the needles or something, I dunno. Anyways, if you make the cactii continuous damage and no knockback, and leave the staggered halftile walkability, this will make it trivial for players to scale them with quick, well-timed jumps up and around the unwalkable halftiles.

[C-Dawg]

So I need to research Mp3 editing utilities.  I need to be able to fix looping and volume problems on the file end if ZQuest won't change how it plays them.  Assuming I can get the tunes to run properly, here's the status of what I'd like to use.  Each song is from the 8 Bit Collective, and I think they're all creative commons.  However, I need to get in touch with the artists nevertheless because I don't want to use someone's work without credit and permission.

 

R. Catamaran - by H-Pizzle (permission granted)

Disillusionment and Anxiety Are in Asile Four - by SAVESTATES

Bourbon Trail - by Nobody

challenge sequence1 - by SarahChip

Interstellar Machines - by Random & Linde

How to Kill a Man From Outer Space - by SAVESTATES

In Soviet Russia... - by n00bgrinder

Love Will Tear Us Apart - by nordloef

Psilodumputer - by Psilodump

Space Beacon - by radiantx

Machine Code - by STA$D400

The Wired Tree - by Velanthos

1566 - by Xylo & algar

 

If anyone wants to assist with the editing process and knows more about Mp3s than I do, by all means, step up!  I'm learning this from scratch.  Luckily, I know how to write e-mails, so contacting the authors is not too challenging.