123 replies to this topic

[Shane]

Koh, what are you talking about? This is Zelda Classic. ZC cheats are hardly like the ones you listed.

[Haylee]

Gameshark, Action Replay, Codebreaker, TConfig and Cheat Pack, all of which are vastly popular, would like to have a word with you.

Because you know, those are all 3rd party programs used to break games, just like what we're discussing here. The game creators still don't confuse those cheat devices.

[Shane]

strike, there is potentially a way to counter act through scripts. I hope it comes soon.

Edited by Charizard, 30 May 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Koh]

Because you know, those are all 3rd party programs used to break games, just like what we're discussing here. The game creators still don't confuse those cheat devices.

Even if they do, the confusion will only be temporary until another update comes that breaks through once more.  As strike said, cheating is inevitable.  People will find a way.  This is another instance of a 3rd Party ZC cheat system; there were previous instances.  So if this one ends up not working a couple years down the line on a newer version, another will arise from the ashes, just like that.  

Edited by Koh, 30 May 2014 - 12:01 PM.

[Linkus]

You're making strawmen, folks. Can anybody think of anyone who would do such a thing like cheating just to get through the game? Was cheating a problem before? Because here's how I see it:

 

1. It can be used as a dev tool that assists in making quests more fool-proof by testing what happens with the wrong item is used, the scene is entered the wrong way, what would happen if someone left the map incorrectly, and so on. Things like this break a game and can cause problems for the player, sometimes it's well-deserved, while other times it's purely happenstance or by mistake. Bug testing is very important for any game, and a tool like this would assist in that manner.

 

2. It lets people get through points in quests where it's just too hard or too confusing to figure out. I've hit a few points in games myself, because they expected you to do something on a critical path in an exact manner and even a small mistake would kill you, or a puzzle was so vague that it left me wandering around for hours/days/years all because it didn't hint at the solution well or describe all the components that were involved in the puzzle. No player agency or poorly-explained puzzles with solutions that are poorly hinted at actually hurt the kind of genre that The Legend of Zelda represents.

 

It may break the game, but it can also fix the game by finding what breaks it. It's a two-way street depending on its use.

[Shane]

Well, if people cheat and break my game and rate it based on such because they chose to do it. I want to have the choice to request that rating to be removed then.

 

Until that happens, I will just leave and say I will be happy to take anything that avoids full use of cheats. To each their own. I respect if players want to use cheats, I just wish people and players would respect the creator's rights to disable them too.

Edited by Charizard, 30 May 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Haylee]

Even if they do, the confusion will only be temporary until another update comes that breaks through once more.  As strike said, cheating is inevitable.  People will find a way.  This is another instance of a 3rd Party ZC cheat system; there were previous instances.  So if this one ends up not working a couple years down the line on a newer version, another will arise from the ashes, just like that.

That does not deny that creators don't want people to do this. Nintendo showed this with Pokemon, when they lied about the missingno. Glitch, and when they put the bad egg in the games. This is what this is about. Creators don't want the cheats there, but people still break the games anyway. This is why we're discussing this, so that there may be potential for an anti cheating script.

[DCEnygma]

Well, if people cheat and break my game and rate it based on such because they chose to do it. I want to have the choice to request that rating to be removed then.

 

Until that happens, I will just leave and say I will be happy to take anything that avoids full use of cheats.

At what point did you assume that staff would sit on it's hands in such a case? Of course someone saying "I intentionally broke the game 0/5" isn't a valid rating.

[Avaro]

I think Charizard has a strong point there. If people play with cheats, it may have an affect on the experience and thus on the rating too. If the cheats really enhance your experience, that's good for you. However, if it has a bad affect on the experience with the quest (for whatever reason), remember it is NOT the questmakers fault. It is your own fault because you used the cheats. I hope people will realise this!

[Ventus]

My point was, it became apparent that people are implying they will rate the quest based on experiences with cheats on.

No one implied that they would rate a because of the experiences they've had with cheats on. Seems silly to think that they would.

I know if something breaks while I'm using cheats I'll admit that it was my fault if something didn't work. no need to assume that others would say thats it the creators fault.

[Avaro]

No one implied that they would rate a because of the experiences they've had with cheats on. Seems silly to think that they would.

I know if something breaks while I'm using cheats I'll admit that it was my fault if something didn't work. no need to assume that others would say thats it the creators fault.

Cheats sometimes break things without you knowing that it was the cheat that caused things to break.

[Koh]

Who's honestly dumb enough to cheat, then blame the game for being poorly designed after applying cheats, and having things like game crashes?  I think that the phobia of that happening is just as silly as people fearing the sky falling down.

Edited by Koh, 30 May 2014 - 12:19 PM.

[Ventus]

Who's honestly dumb enough to cheat, then blame the game for being poorly designed after applying cheats and having things like game crashes?  I think that the phobia of that happening is just as silly as people fearing the sky falling down.

Exactly, I don't even know how anyone could think that. xD

[Koh]

If game crashes and the like happen just from playing the game normally, but in a way the creator didn't expect, now THAT's something to report to the creator.  Like perhaps, the creator didn't see that you could go to a certain part of the map early and trigger a cutscene out of order.  You, as a developer, are supposed to iron out most, if not all, things like that, glitches, and potential game crashes during the testing phases.  This is why extensive testing is necessary.  Testing isn't just involving playing the game, but you have to test special cases and value boundaries as well.  Try everything with everything.  Cheats can help with testing.  If you want to test a new addition to the game, but don't want to play up to that point, for example, you can use cheats to give yourself the proper stats and equipment needed to test.  I do this all the time as I make progress on the engines I make.

Edited by Koh, 30 May 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[David]

Yeah but if you are testing your quest then just use the normal Level 4 cheat on ZC. We are talking about people using this program to play a certain quest, NOT about the quest creator testing a quest.