234 replies to this topic

[Timelord]

Hi.

The windows explorer palette changed bug was fixed. It sounds like a bug with windows not sending the proper events to 8-bit DX applications. I don't know how this can be fixed.

32-bit color should work fine but keep in mind that menus will not be visible. (I could not find a fix for this... it's complicated)

Does the joypad issue resolve itself in RC4? If not it's (again) an allegro issue also.

I also sometimes get the "app hang" issue on winXP. I added a config file option "force_quit=0" which may or may not work for you. Set it to 1 to enable it.

Hmm... Could you please reference the problem with Explorer when you reply? Was this one where Explorer dropped to 8-bit colour and needed to be reset after exiting ZC, or something else?

Is that option usable in the config file of RC5 from Shardstorm, or do I need a numbered version that supports it? It does seem to happen frequently, and I might suggest having it enabled by default or having a prefs checkbox to turn it on for the average user, if they see this happening. I would also be happy to assist you with documentation, when the time comes, for an on-line user manual or PDF download.

I think that would be very useful to go along with the official 2.5 release, and documenting how to escape from problems like this that cannot be resolved would be wise, to avoid lots of people posting to ask about them in the future.

My joypads work in 2.50 RC 3, RC4 and RC5 on Windows-7 for any 2.50 ques. Using Windows-7, they do not work in 2.10 (as I recall, although I will double-check), 1.92b183 or 1.90, and quests made for 1.92b183 and 1.90 that I load in 2.50 RC4/RC5 have no response from the joypad. I supposed that I could use an I-Pac and run them with a joystick on that (a creative solution made possible wit my MAME cabinet), but wait, there's more... I tried to press down on the keyboard on my normal system while attempting to run Lexx and it didn't work either.

Again, I will check a wired KB (as I was using a wireless KB) to verify this is true. I will also try to check it in Linux to see if it is an Allegro problem. If it is, perhaps a compatibility mode option (checkbox in the joypad configuration menu) that enables a script or code section that reads the value used for joypad input in 2.5 and converts them as a BG process to values used/expected in 1.9x quests would work?

This may cause lag on older HW, but older HW can run 1.92b183, as older HW generally also runs Windows XP or earlier.

It seems that controls for all 192b183 and earlier quests are not registering in 2.50, and maybe not on Windowsp7. I would need to try them on XP, but I haven't any XP machine on hand. if you download the quest I am attempting to use ('Lexx') you might be able to debug this. I was able to play 'Lost Isle' in 2.50 RC5, thus far without issues--aside from pulling what is left of my hair out with its difficulty level--and that quest was made for a special version of 2.11, and as it runs, I expect that some 2.1x quests will run flawlessly. I do need to check more 2.10 quests and 2.10 itself using W7 to see where this begins, and if all 2.10 quests work in 2.50 with a joypad, or only 'Lost Isle', which was made using 2.1/2.5-alpha, and therefore may not have that issue.

If you mean the joypad issue of left going left/up or let-down, I think this was the same for both RC4 and RC5. Again I will check it. I know the problem exists in RC5. I can send one of these joypads to whomever is working on that kind of issue if they want to try it for themself.

I still hope to be able to play quests on slower Linux systems in the future. Is ZC executable without running X11 (I use Gnome), and would that speed it up by freeing resources: I run Ubuntu 10.04 on an Intel Atom machine and every quest is at half speed at best--even 1st.qst--for drawing graphics? I don't mind booting into CLI, never starting X11, and running ZC from there, but I don't know if this would help with the issue or if I just need more available processor cycles for it to behave itself.

I will check other 2.10 quests, such as HoD, and report which do or do not work. I will also double-check if 2.10 works with a joypad in Windows-7... I know that it did in Windows (SP1/SP2) using a retroUSB converter and classic NES controller, and I only use W7 because it came pre-installed on the other netbook we have in use in our flat.

What is your opinion on auto-making a backup .sav file every X-hours as a preference? This should be pretty esy, as all you are doing is copying zc.sav into 'saves' directory and appending a timestamp to its name each time.

Request:
I would actually also suggest having a 'saves' directory, with a master file that trcks the quests you have open/loaded, and a .sav file for each quest, so that when updating or saving one quest, if it trashes the save, you only lose ojne game, rather than all of them.

Thus, zc.sav would only contain the information on what quests re loaded and the filename of each .sav file for every quest, so if you have Wolfstyle.sqt, 1st.qst, Pathofshadows.qst, and Origin.qst loaded, you get
../zc.sav : This references the .sav file for each game, and then you have:

../saves/Wolfstyle.sav
../saves/Pathofshadows.sav
../saves/1st.sav
../saves/Origin.sav

Each of these contains only the save datum for that game. This may also speed-up the saving process by not needing to update a huge file if you have a dozen quests loaded, while at the same time protecting the save files for each game, preventing corruption of all of your games. The basic zc.sav fie could be text (rather than BIN) so that it is easy to point it to your save files in a new location if you rename or move paths. I would also love a feature to load a quest, and then load .sav file for it: I ran into issues with path-association in 2.50 (all RCs) when renaming a path, and when shifting quests between Windows XP and Linux due to the different path nomenclature.

Would this be too difficult to implement?

the moldorm/lanmola issue bothers me. if I remember correctly, lanmolas should award a none/ruby/heart/fairy drop when the head is killed and moldorms should never give anything. another thing I don't understand is the two death blips (blood spatters) from a single dodongo. I get that he is two parts wide sometimes, but he didn't used to do that. he didn't do that in the original game, did he? stuff.

This is correct: Moldorms had no drop, and don't by default in ZC. Lanmolas have a drop per segment by default, and Saffith said that they'll add a quest rule behaviour attribute to the lanmola (in the enemy editor, I presume) for NES-type drops. This way, quests that use them for restocking rooms won't break, s they will have the old (one drop per segment) behaviour by default, but a quest-maker in 250 can use the old style. When making a quest, you would just generate a Lanmola that has the NES-behaiour attribute selected, and --shebang!-- you have a hard-type enemy that drops when it is entirely annihilated.

Again, the emphasis is that you will have this option s a quest-maker in 2.50, but it won't be the default, so that quests that rely on ZC-type drops that we've had for ages won't become impossible to play. I may use both types in my quests in the future.

One Last Suggestion: When on the screen to select a quest (the save slot screen), when you press 'Start' to load a quest, some quests take long time to load. it would be nice to have some kind of sound (like a beep0 to alter the user that ZC has taken your input (when you pressed start) and is loading, rather than dead silence, and delay. Sometimes it looks like ZC has hung, s you get no feedback that it has taken your input and/or is loading a quest (i.e. A beep for auditory feedback that the ZC is loading something.).

This isn't essential, but it'd sure be [i]nice]/i].

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 10 November 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[trudatman]

I'm trying to follow, but I'm not sure I get it. do I understand correctly that there is no plan to have lanmolas and moldorms work correctly by default? in order for one of my 1.90 quests to work correctly in newer builds I would need to open it in the next editor and then choose a quest rule to make it follow the correct functionality and then save it as a 2.5 quest? and this is because these enemies were broken in 2.1 (the most dysfunctional versions, by far) and a few of the quests from that sad era may have been set up to use those enemies as health regenerators and that made it somehow standard? tell me I misunderstood, please.

[Timelord]

I'm trying to follow, but I'm not sure I get it. do I understand correctly that there is no plan to have lanmolas and moldorms work correctly by default? in order for one of my 1.90 quests to work correctly in newer builds I would need to open it in the next editor and then choose a quest rule to make it follow the correct functionality and then save it as a 2.5 quest? and this is because these enemies were broken in 2.1 (the most dysfunctional versions, by far) and a few of the quests from that sad era may have been set up to use those enemies as health regenerators and that made it somehow standard? tell me I misunderstood, please.

You are correct, however, all you need to do is open your 1.90 quest in 2.5 (probably RC6, when available), enable the attribute for that enemy and save your quest again. It would be wise for you to update your quest for 2.5 anyway, due to the joypad issue: It is likely that your 1.9x quest won't be usable in 2.5 unless you update it. It also gives you a chance to make some improvements, if you desire, with the enemy or item editors, or expand it to make use of new items.

It is going to be an enemy option to enable for the lanmola, not a quest rule in any case, s I understand things, so it should take only a couple minutes to correct it.

What quest is it?

Big Report: I had RC5 running when I went to lunch, and when I me back, the screensaver was running. I switched to Firefox for a few minutes, and when i returned to ZC, the screensaver was [b]stuck{/b] in the ZC window, and nothing would end it. I couldn't even use F5/F6. The screen just inverted when I tried to do anything, so I force-closed it and restarted. Thankfully, I saved the game and copied the .sav file before leaving...

This is the default Windows-7 screensaver. It never seemrd to load on the full screen, but instead transposed itself only into the ZC window... Very weird. I've seen it run while in ZC (fullscreen) and it works normally, but it seemingly glitches with ZC in windowed mode.

I took a screenshot of this, as 'the Matrix' ate Hyrule that I will upload as time permits.

[Saffith]

Note that there is a backward slash and a forward slash in the middle of the path. I'll try to jot down the exact message if you need it.

Weird. Is the path correct, aside from the stray slash? It's a bigger problem if that's the only thing that keeps it from working.

(Did you ever fix the issue with .sav files breaking when swapping them from Windows to Mac/Linux, with the path hierarchy & nomenclature differences?)

I tried, but I don't know how well it actually works...

1> Whenever any pop-up (e.g. Update request) message appears, the border of the screen goes momentarily from black, and flashes like pink lightning. This fixes itself in a flash.

That's the best we can do, apparently. Windows screws up 256-color palettes when things grab focus (even invisible things), and all we can do is change them back afterward. It may be possible to fix it before it becomes visible, but I don't think that's going to happen in ZC.

2> If a rotating backdrop is in use, say one that updates every hour, then the background becomes pink and the colours shift across the board until you exit and then re-enter fullscreen mode.

Probably a different case of the same thing. If I can find what message it sends (assuming there is one), it should be possible to reduce that to just a flash, as well.

The more critical problem seems to do with quests that have 'allow diagonal walking' enabled. With five different controllers, I have noted that on such quests, some movement becomes scrambled. Down becomes left, or left becomes down. Stuff like that. I'm going to test SoW with one of the worst-offending controllers to see if it does the same thing, but I wanted to mention it in advance.

Does this only happen on controllers with analog sticks? I wonder if it could be a sensitivity issue.

Lastly, quests from 2.10 and 1.9x don't seem to permit using a joypad in 2.50RC5 on Windows-7. I loaded 'Lexx' for example, and none of the controls work at all once I load them game, although thy do work in the file select menus. Is this a limitation based on changes to the controller mechanics, or is it a Windows-7 issue? In any case, I tried several pre-2.50 quests that all had the same issue.

I don't know how that's even possible. I don't believe they're handled differently at all. I'll look into it, but I really have no idea what the problem could be.
I hate to say that something like this won't be fixed, but I honestly don't know if we can.

On a final note, early this morning after playing SoW, and then Lost Isle, and saving a game (Lost Isle), I closed ZC. When I later relaunched it, my quests were toast---gone, blank--all empty slots. Fortunately, I was easily able to restore them from a backup, and lost nothing--let this be a reminder to everyone to back up your zc.sav files frequently--but others may not be so lucky. Perhaps it may be an idea to make an auto-backup every few hours an an option to enable?

Maybe I could have it back up the save file whenever it saves, or something like that. I've heard of this happening now and then, but I don't know what can be done about it...

When setting large mode, the "scale" variable is NOT entirely ignored. For instance, if I set scale, then open ZQuest, then attempt to set fullscreen in-program, it actually resizes the window to match the "scale" parameter!

Perhaps there's a way to make this intended behavior on the Mac? Setting fullscreen in ag.cfg or in-program still does not work, but this would largely null the need for a working fullscreen at all.

I don't even want to think about it. That's code that I really don't want to touch. But if it works like that, it'll probably continue to do so.

Hmm... Could you please reference the problem with Explorer when you reply? Was this one where Explorer dropped to 8-bit colour and needed to be reset after exiting ZC, or something else?

That's palette issue #1 above, I think.

Is that option usable in the config file of RC5 from Shardstorm, or do I need a numbered version that supports it?

Yes, it's in RC5. Try it out; if it helps and doesn't cause any problems, we'll probably enable it by default.

I still hope to be able to play quests on slower Linux systems in the future. Is ZC executable without running X11 (I use Gnome), and would that speed it up by freeing resources: I run Ubuntu 10.04 on an Intel Atom machine and every quest is at half speed at best--even 1st.qst--for drawing graphics? I don't mind booting into CLI, never starting X11, and running ZC from there, but I don't know if this would help with the issue or if I just need more available processor cycles for it to behave itself.

I'm pretty sure Allegro requires X for graphics, but I haven't tried without.
You could try changing the frame_rest_suggest setting in ag.cfg. Start with 0 and 1, maybe try a few higher numbers if those don't help. And if you're running fullscreen, it'll still help to use a lower resolution.

Request:
I would actually also suggest having a 'saves' directory, with a master file that trcks the quests you have open/loaded, and a .sav file for each quest, so that when updating or saving one quest, if it trashes the save, you only lose ojne game, rather than all of them.

That's a good idea for several reasons, but it's a pretty big change internally. It'll probably have to wait for 2.50.1 or 2.60.

One Last Suggestion: When on the screen to select a quest (the save slot screen), when you press 'Start' to load a quest, some quests take long time to load. it would be nice to have some kind of sound (like a beep0 to alter the user that ZC has taken your input (when you pressed start) and is loading, rather than dead silence, and delay. Sometimes it looks like ZC has hung, s you get no feedback that it has taken your input and/or is loading a quest (i.e. A beep for auditory feedback that the ZC is loading something.).

Maybe, yeah.

I'm trying to follow, but I'm not sure I get it. do I understand correctly that there is no plan to have lanmolas and moldorms work correctly by default?

For 2.10 and older quests, it'll automatically set them up according to how they worked in the version they were made in.

This is the default Windows-7 screensaver. It never seemrd to load on the full screen, but instead transposed itself only into the ZC window... Very weird. I've seen it run while in ZC (fullscreen) and it works normally, but it seemingly glitches with ZC in windowed mode.

Strange. I don't know what to say to that one...
The Windows screensaver shouldn't come up at all in fullscreen. Allegro's supposed to disable it in fullscreen by default. Could be that that doesn't work in Windows 7, though.
There's a setting you can add in ag.cfg:

CODE

[system]
disable_screensaver = 2

0: Never
1: Fullscreen only (default)
2: Always

[trudatman]

....It is likely that your 1.9x quest won't be usable in 2.5 unless you update it....

....For 2.10 and older quests, it'll automatically set them up according to how they worked in the version they were made in....

aside from the lanmola/moldorm thing and a few other minor SNAFUs, my current 1.90 expo demo works pretty well in 2.50(4) because I have put a lot of effort into having it do so. my huge old 1.90 quest would take more work than I feel capable of putting in alone to run well in 2.5s. I am relieved to know that y'all are trying to keep old functionality as much as popsicle. I don't suppose there was a solution worked out for the unwanted walkability and injury thing that is evident in the first second of gameplay in HowHigh. do you remember, Saffith, the tree that should only be walkable and hurting/bumping on the nose but is walkable in its corners/feet/roots, too? getting that to work correctly would be a great fix of version disfunctionality. lots of changes were made in how combos worked that aren't currently automatically held over to these new builds.

[Saffith]

do you remember, Saffith, the tree that should only be walkable and hurting/bumping on the nose but is walkable in its corners/feet/roots, too?

That should be fixed in RC5. Try it out when you get a chance.

[trudatman]

sweet! will do. still awaiting a charger for the craptop. off to check the mailbox!

[Timelord]

Weird. Is the path correct, aside from the stray slash? It's a bigger problem if that's the only thing that keeps it from working.

I will duplicate the situation and give you a screenshot. The very odd thing is that RC5 will load games correctly that are saved in other directories, using the RC5 files. Taht is, when you start a quest from RC5, and copy RC5 to another directory, then load it, it doesn't give the error. Only when I copied RC5 onto an existing RC4, or copied the RC4 game save files onto RC5 does it do this.

I'll check the ag.cfg file to be certain, but I'd best make a screen grab of that as well.

I tried, but I don't know how well it actually works...
That's the best we can do, apparently. Windows screws up 256-color palettes when things grab focus (even invisible things), and all we can do is change them back afterward. It may be possible to fix it before it becomes visible, but I don't think that's going to happen in ZC.
Probably a different case of the same thing. If I can find what message it sends (assuming there is one), it should be possible to reduce that to just a flash, as well.

I figured that was the case, and I wasn't sure if there was a fix for it. Apparently setting the colour depth to 24 or 32 will make the menus invisible, so it may be just as problematic. I'll tinker with it and see what I can discover.

Does this only happen on controllers with analog sticks? I wonder if it could be a sensitivity issue.
I don't know how that's even possible. I don't believe they're handled differently at all. I'll look into it, but I really have no idea what the problem could be.

o, these are digital (NES and SNES knockoff) USB controllers. I'll try the worst offenders in a game where diagonal movement isn't used and see if I encounter any problems. It *could* be the controllers, but when one does this in games with diagonal movement enabled, but not in games without it enabled, I begin to suspect that as the culprit.

Maybe I could have it back up the save file whenever it saves, or something like that. I've heard of this happening now and then, but I don't know what can be done about it...

Actually, what I suggest, although it may be what you mean, is to create a duplicate of the old .sav file just before overwriting it with a new one, in a backups directory. This would be wise anyway, as it allows players to un-screw themselves if they accidentally save.

Yes, it's in RC5. Try it out; if it helps and doesn't cause any problems, we'll probably enable it by default.

I'll enable it and report on it after trying it for a while.

I'm pretty sure Allegro requires X for graphics, but I haven't tried without.
You could try changing the frame_rest_suggest setting in ag.cfg. Start with 0 and 1, maybe try a few higher numbers if those don't help. And if you're running fullscreen, it'll still help to use a lower resolution.

I'll try it and see and let you know if it runs without X11. I'm also guessing not....
I'll tinker with the settings, but on slower machines it is really pitiful, as I mentioned back in the RC2 or RC3 thread... it's a problem with Linux and Xorg, to be sure, no-matter what you do.

That's a good idea for several reasons, but it's a pretty big change internally. It'll probably have to wait for 2.50.1 or 2.60.

Brill! I hope it does make it into ZC... I don't know if anyone has previously suggested it, and I'm not sure how difficult it'd be to put together, but it'd be worthwhile in the end, and would probably make quest loading and saving a tad bit faster.

It would also make it easier both when you want to move a quest to another computer that already has ZC, as you won't need multiple copies of ZC for multiple .sav files, and far easier when you share a system for gaming. I have game nights, and when we all sit down and play a quest, and I am playing the same quest on my own, or multiple people have the same quest at different points, I'd be nice to be able to share only the pertinent files. As you said, there are many reasons... Some more and some less obvious, but as I have no idea how the saving system works, I don't know how tedious it'd be to fix.

Also, I think after 2.50, if you add more features, items and stuff like this, you're more honestly aiming for v3.0.

The Windows screensaver shouldn't come up at all in fullscreen. Allegro's supposed to disable it in fullscreen by default. Could be that that doesn't work in Windows 7, though.
There's a setting you can add in ag.cfg:

CODE

[system]
disable_screensaver = 2

0: Never
1: Fullscreen only (default)
2: Always

I'll give that a try. I assure you that in W7, the screensaver does come up over ZC: It was amusing watching The Matrix devour Hyrule the first time it happened, and it is probably due to some idiotic change that MS made in how the screensaver functions.

If you get a moment, please try to load an old quest (I used 'Lexx' as an example, for this is what I was trying to play) in 2.5, and try using any controller or keyboard. For me, on W7, it doesn't respond to any input, aside from triggering the ZC menus. if you get it on XP, then it isn't a W7 issue. if you don't experience this, then it is a possibly a problem with the Windows USB libraries or some weird issue along those lines.

ZC 1.92b183 exhibited the same issue: No controls on Windows-7.

One thing I wanted to ask: When making custom items and enemies, what is the maximum number of each that I can put into a quest?

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 10 November 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Gleeok]

Just a couple of things:

-When using analog sticks there is a JOY_THRESHHOLD internally so hair-sensitivity shouldn't be the problem.
-frame_rate_suggest defaults to 0 for mac only. Should it for Linux also?
-Input should be exactly the same on 2.5 regardless of what version quest file is being played. Quests do not store any data related to this in any way. (Maybe I misunderstood..)

One thing I wanted to ask: When making custom items and enemies, what is the maximum number of each that I can put into a quest?

Enemies: 512
Items: 256

[Timelord]

I will be out of the city from Sunday through Tuesday, however, I will attempt to set up an experiment regarding older quests using digital joypads in 2.5 and submit my results as soon as I may. I did try a couple old quests, and I know that one was for 1.90 and the other for 1.92b183.

I have a long list of quests that I haven't played, so this is as good a time as any to try each of them.

It may be that a script that uses input from the controller broke, if nothing else could cause this: In 'Lexx', the game starts with an intro screen--a pretty badass one--that requires pressing 'Down' to continue. The odd part is that I'm sure that I tried to run it on 1.92b83 and it didn't work there either.

I don't own any analogue controllers, other than those in arcade cabinets; particularly for 'Star Wars' and for a slew of trackball games. I generally detest analogue controls for console games, as they feel slippery and lack the finesse of a full-sized joystick, so I don't use them.

What i will do is load a few games into 2.50 RC5 and 2.50 RC4 that are each from older versions, such as six 2.10 games, six 1.92b183 games, and six 1.90 games. Then I will test each one, using each of the four USB joypads that I have on hand--two brands of each, knockoff Chinese SNES and NES style--and my wireless KB, and a wired KB, and note which controls respond for each game (if any) and submit my findings.

Perhaps using my sampling, you can find what is causing this to happen.

I will also run 2.10, 1.92b183 and 1.90 versions of ZC, assuming it is possible to run them on Windows-7, using the same games and repeat the test, and provide my finding.

I can only flowchart this so far... I do have a generic USB-->SNES converter that I have yet to test, as I don't have a controller from the SNES/SFC around here.I will report on that when I have a controller for it, and I'll report on the retroUSB when i reorder one.

Beyond this, I will be checking for jittery or bizarre movement, such as left going up on each device, and noting the controller in question, the build of ZC, and if diagonal movement is in use.

Perhaps with all of this you can pin down the problems that I have encountered.

Thank you for the info on the custom enemies and items: Out of curiosity is there a logistics reason that you have a different cap for each?

[Three Pendants]

You were right, the script just needed to be reinitiated in 2.5.5

[Timelord]

You were right, the script just needed to be reinitiated in 2.5.5

Sorry, but were you answering me?

On another note: Is 'Z3 Item Style' for the boomerang/hookshot still a quest rule, or has it finally been moved to an item attribute? It would be much nicer as an item attribute if it isn't already.

Edited by ZoriaRPG, 11 November 2012 - 12:39 AM.

[Jared]

Sorry, but were you answering me?

On another note: Is 'Z3 Item Style' for the boomerang/hookshot still a quest rule, or has it finally been moved to an item attribute? It would be much nicer as an item attribute if it isn't already.

What do you mean, Z3 Item Style?

[CastChaos]

Huh. Can you show me the tile page and enemy settings, or perhaps send me the quest?

I PM'd you the quest 2 days ago, you made anything out of it? No problem if not, it's small thing...

[Jared]

This MIDI bug is driving me NUTS.

Anyway, are the SS 1 (Numerals), SS 2 (Incomplete), etc ever going to be finished (the text)?
What does the SS even stand for anyway?