137 replies to this topic

[Hunter P Brown]

Guys, the murdering of another human (and yes, that's what the man was, despite what ever he did or was head of) is always a terrible thing. You can not, and I reapeat, not, fight hatred with hatred. It will bear even more hatred.

People are going to celebrate/be upset about the murder of someone no matter who it is and no matter what they have done. It's life, people with different viewpoints. Even people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are glad he's gone. If Obama were to die or be murdered, I guarantee the KKK would be having celebrations all across the USA.

[William]

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. But can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” (Gandalf, ftw!)

There's this great guy.... Gandalf's his name.... Yeah. I like his quote, and I believe it's applicable here. Wizards are pretty damn wise.

I don't really think, Russ, that our judgment on his death is right to give. Slow and painful? Seriously? That's a little weird, right? I wouldn't want anyone to suffer. In the Bible (since you are Christian), it says to leave the judgment of others to God. I'm pretty damn sure God knows what to do with him (from a Christian view point, I'm not a Christian anyway.) I may not believe in God, but I know Russ does. Let's let God do the judging, and will keep on living. After all, "in the eyes of the Lord all sins are equal", and we all "sin".

Edited by William, 02 May 2011 - 01:46 PM.

[Tree]

Well sheik, you may feel like that now but what would you feel like if someone murdered 100s of people you loved and cared about and didn't even feel bad to the slightest. I don't think you could forgive anyone who did that. Osama deserved to die and we all know it. He was a horrible heartless man. He was killed humanly anyway. One shot in the head and it's over.

[Sheik]

People are going to celebrate/be upset about the murder of someone no matter who it is and no matter what they have done. It's life, people with different viewpoints. Even people in Pakistan and Afghanistan are glad he's gone. If Obama were to die or be murdered, I guarantee the KKK would be having celebrations all across the USA.

So what? Because other's celebrate murder anyone has to jump in the boat? Human beings can actually think. Like, for themselves. They don't really need the Quran or the Bible or just about anything or anyone to tell them what to think. In my honest opinion, it's fundamentally stupid to let anyone do the thinking for you. Much worse with moral. Do you want to live your life, or do you want to be lived by anything other than you?

William, your arguement isn't working, actually. How do we know who's going to judge Osama Bin Laden? The christian god or Allah? Or the spaghetti monster? He had to be judged my humans. But it was wrong to kill him. Death penalty is one of the most pointless things this world has seen.

Edit: Keiichi, you have no idea. I'm actually part of a minority that is hated by the major part of this world's population. Heck, even my partents and four (of five) of my siblings are part of that part of the world's population who hold hate against the likes of me. You know what? I love them. Also, the wording "humanly killed" makes no sense what so ever. It's an oxymoron.

I don't mean (and don't want) to judge any of you. That's not my call, and never will be. But I'm pleading for you to get hold of a little reason. And empathy. Imagine you were the other people.

Edited by Sheik91, 02 May 2011 - 01:59 PM.

[William]

William, your arguement isn't working, actually. How do we know who's going to judge Osama Bin Laden? The christian god or Allah? Or the spaghetti monster? He had to be judged my humans.

I don't know if you read my post entirely, but I specifically said that I was speaking of the Christian God. I was speaking specifically to Russ, knowing that he is Christian. No, I don't know what happens after we die, or whom we'd be judged by, but Russ has made up his mind. Thus I was referring to his views on Christianity.

[Geoffrey]

William, your arguement isn't working, actually. How do we know who's going to judge Osama Bin Laden? The christian god or Allah? Or the spaghetti monster? He had to be judged my humans. But it was wrong to kill him. Death penalty is one of the most pointless things this world has seen.

I would argue that prison time is. Nobody comes out of prison thinking "wow I feel so enlightened right now, what I did really was wrong." They come out thinking that they should be craftier next time and not get caught. If someone truly regrets or feels sorry for what they did, they'll know that well before they get arrested.

[Adem]

I spoke with my mum about it earlier, and her reply was, "Good."

I'm rather disappointed in everybody. Minus Sheik, actually. Granted, I did/still somewhat feel that he didn't really deserve to continue on with his life, but I know that's not for me to decide. That's not for anybody to decide. Yes, this man killed many people. But he wasn't the first to do so, and, unfortunately, he won't be the last. It's just something we need to deal with.

What really bothers me is that everybody is glorifying Obama for "ridding the world of this horrible villain," and totally disregarding the events of last month with the government shut-down. I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but seriously. People need to focus on the real problems. Fuel prices, the economy...

Death is never something you should celebrate. I think today's modern culture has desensitized people to it. It's not a funny thing. It's not a good thing.

I don't know, maybe I'm just naïve, but it's never our place to decide who lives and who dies. Never.

EDIT:

I would argue that prison time is. Nobody comes out of prison thinking "wow I feel so enlightened right now, what I did really was wrong." They come out thinking that they should be craftier next time and not get caught. If someone truly regrets or feels sorry for what they did, they'll know that well before they get arrested.

With prison time, people still have a chance at redemption. Not all take that chance, but I've seen many who have. The death sentence is silly. People seem to have a hard time realizing taking one more life won't bring others back.

Edited by Rem, 02 May 2011 - 02:05 PM.

[Moonbread]

I, for one, am trying not to express hatred. And believe me, I know people overseas, and I had a childhood friend who died in the war. The fact of the matter is that he's dead now, and nothing can change that. So, I say we just let the dead rest. There's no reason to obsess over this, nor is there any reason for any of the "AMERICA, F*** YEAHS" or "WE DEFEATED TERRORISM" (which is about the equivalent of saying we tried to kill trench warfare in WWI) or ignorant comments as such. As Taco Chopper's quote reads, we just spent 10 years and trillions of dollars finding and killing one man. And these nutjobs are a dime a dozen.

I know he had to go, but now that the deed is done, it's time to move on.

[William]

I think that glorifying the death of a human being is just stupid. Let it be; he's dead. End of story. You can be happy that you no longer have to feel threatened, or feel a little bit of revenge, but to wish a slow and painful death on anybody is just plain stupid.

[Neppy]

Osama Bin Laden - WikipediaThere is a section in here that tells about different times he was pronounced as dead, plus a lot of other information. I was looking around it for a while.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

And you consider yourself a Christian? I'm disgusted. Like, really, there's more christian in me, and I'm agnostic (and according to NoeL almost-atheist).

Guys, the murdering of another human (and yes, that's what the man was, despite what ever he did or was head of) is always a terrible thing. You can not, and I reapeat, not, fight hatred with hatred. It will bear even more hatred.
I've already posted this on facebook and will post it here, too:
Think about it. Seriously.
Also, this:

My two cents, of course. But guys, stop the hate. Please. And start with your own selves, before you move to others.

(This world is so going to hell.)


Edit: Robin, I love you, but no. Every human deserves to live. It's called human dignity and we are born with it. Everyone of us. And it's worthy of protection. There's plenty other ways to handle criminals other than (legally) murdering them.
Also, please don't argue with justice. Justice and moral are the biggest whores the world has ever known. In ancient rome, it was considered to be morally bad to eat dogs. However, it was morally totally okay to keep slaves.

Listen, I get it, and I don't even disagree (that much), but in my opinion there are exceptions. People like Osama (Or Hitler, whom was mentioned) are people who have lost their right to live (in my opinion) by committing such incredibly harsh and unforgiving crimes that they have.

These are people who have committed crimes against humanity. That's quite different than say, robbing a bank. In my opinion, the moment innocent blood touches your hands, you no longer deserve to be in possession of a great thing as life itself. I do not personally believe in God, so to me, there really aren't anyone else but us, the people, left to actually judge him and his crimes.

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, and I wouldn't say that you're "wrong" either. I guess we just operate differently when it comes to justice and morale. I may be overly harsh though, but I don't really mind. If anything, my childhood and own personal experiences are to blame, as they have made me who I am today (obviously), which again has resulted in my somewhat harsh look on justice.

Simply put, my stance is this: what comes around, goes around.

[Koh]

@Robin: That should be "what GOES around, comes around." People do that all the time for some reason xD.

Well anyway, the guy fell, so now what's the big plan? How about another fuel alternative =D!?

[Sheik]

I would argue that prison time is. Nobody comes out of prison thinking "wow I feel so enlightened right now, what I did really was wrong." They come out thinking that they should be craftier next time and not get caught. If someone truly regrets or feels sorry for what they did, they'll know that well before they get arrested.

No, death penalty is pointless. And in a democratic state, the measure isn't justice. The democratic state doesn't care about justice. It's purpose is to rule the state as the majority of the inhabitants wishes. And also to protect human rights, but that's not primarly. Well, that's not true for the post-democratic societes we live in anymore, but it was true until about 1980. Now the goal of the "democratic" state seems to be (economic) growth.(And on a more anstract level the purpose of states is to develop a set of rules by which people can live together in savety.)
Anyways, onto why death penalty is pointless:
It's no "justful destribution". "An eye for an eye" will bear ever more and more hatred. That's leading us nowhere. It also doesn't increase safety. It's just as safe to lock criminals away for the rest of their lives. It doesn't serve as deterrence either. Someone who knows that he will face death for his actions will rather shoot down another three persons than start to listen to any sort of reason. It's not true that it's a lesser finanical burdan either. The death row has to be payed, too. If death pentaly is legal, and someone is put to death pentalty by error, there's no way of ridding this unjustice ever, if the person's innocence is proven. There's peoblems with the understanding of the state here. Nobody wants to be part of a state that could sentence them to dead. Also, the fact that the killing (or legal murder, actaully) is unpublic and in the most "humane" way possible actually prooves that those in authority feel some kind of guilt / have a remorse.

People need to focus on the real problems. Fuel prices, the economy...

Death is never something you should celebrate. I think today's modern culture has desensitized people to it. It's not a funny thing. It's not a good thing.

I don't know, maybe I'm just naïve, but it's never our place to decide who lives and who dies. Never.

Those real problems could be tackled if we decided that we want politics to serve the people's welfare and wealth (which is NOT only material) and not economy. But for that to happen we'd have to secularize of our real religion: neo liberalism and capitalism. But that's another topic altogether.
Also, I don't think you are naive. I truely and wholeheartly believe that it's a good thing to have ideals. "You've got more than money and sense my friend; you've got heart."

[Moonbread]

Koh, didn't you know that killing Osama fixed the environment, stopped corruption in the government, and made everyone stop hating us? Oh wait, no, people are just acting like it did that. Like Zaire has said, we've got bigger fish to fry right now.

[William]

Out of the frying pan, into the fire. I'm sure that now that this problem with Bin Laden is over, we'll have a new one. As it is, people who like killing and have a lot of guns aren't that hard to come by these days. I'm sure Al Queda will find someone new; this doesn't end the war on terrorism.