411 replies to this topic

[Evile]

How many times to I have to say this, people!?!

It will be completely possible to make a fully functional quest without EVER having to write a line of code or even touch the script editor. Heck, you don't even need to import any scripts.

Don't we already have this? This whole idea seems silly. We already have a perfectly fine program for making zelda games, I'm not about to switch to a new program any time soon.

[Lemmy Koopa]

I use ZC to make Zelda games at ease.
The fact that we now have scripting makes ZC reach way further than it did before, so why redo all of this? I don't want to relearn ZC.

It sounds like if you rewrite it like that, it might lose it's meaning. If I wanted to make a Zelda game out of scripts and nothing else, I'd be making them with Game Maker.

Zelda Classic is very easy to use, and has the specific purpose to make Zelda games, and it's all there already in front of you.

[Saffith]

To clarify another point, this discussion is about internal changes. It would still be used the same way.

[Cameron]

I use ZC to make Zelda games at ease.
The fact that we now have scripting makes ZC reach way further than it did before, so why redo all of this? I don't want to relearn ZC.

It sounds like if you rewrite it like that, it might lose it's meaning. If I wanted to make a Zelda game out of scripts and nothing else, I'd be making them with Game Maker.

Zelda Classic is very easy to use, and has the specific purpose to make Zelda games, and it's all there already in front of you.

Correct me if I'm wrong about something in this next part and forgive me if I'm confusing.

Like many before me have said ZC (or ZM) would work exactly the same. There would just be more features that would make it more stable, open up more possiblities through less hard coded things (by this I mean that things can be changed that you normally could not in ZC), improve the GUI, and allow for ports by dropping allegro (actually dropping allegro helps most of these other things happen). If you knew how to use ZC you could use ZM. ZScript and ZASM would still be there, but Python would also be an option (Python is a powerful and easy to learn scripting language).

This could only be an improvement for ZC. The problem is, it is a daunting task that would take up a lot of time and there are very few people who would be willing to do it. Though we could just wait for 2.5 to be released (if that happens) and then wait for the "3.0" rewrite that devs have talked about (so I've heard anyway).

[Lemmy Koopa]

If that is the case, then I support it then.
I just don't want it to be entirely script based.
I can script a bit, but ZC is very easy to use.

[Gleeok]

I know I may overuse the "QBert" argument (chosen mostly for comedic value).. (and I also know that no one probably knows what I'm referring to ...err I'll explain..), but if you can't remake QBert with a 2D game making program then what's the point? zc 1.0 to 2.11 is immune to this analogy since that is obviously out of the programs scope and zc 2.5 beta requires heavy scripting, but to me re-writing an entire program from the ground up with different libraries just so it still can't easily make a QBert game seems kind of pointless...doesn't it? I mean if you add higher resolution, 32-bit color, a new scripting languge, new gui, proper screen-scrollng, tons of extra coding hours, etc. and it still can't do a QBert, then what's the point? This is a huge huge "limitation" So..Let this henceforth be known as the "QBert "argument. ;-D


Also I did some looking into Python and.. I don't know but it doesn't seem very adequate as a game scripting language due mainly to it's slooooooow execution time. Yucky two thumbs down. :bleh:

http://www.timestret...lBenchmark.html
http://shootout.alio...ng-language.php
http://unigine.com/p...iler_benchmark/ .//this may not be valid. I'm not familiar at all with 'unigine" or whatever it is.
http://stackoverflow...pting-languages

I didn't really spend any time looking at others like psyco, angelscript, or Agena, to name a few. I'm kinda suprised at how many there are. (I didn't know.)

Edited by Gleeok, 12 June 2010 - 02:48 AM.

[Koopa]

It would still be used the same way.

How exactly does that tally with replacing ZScript with ZPython? People would have to learn a new language.

As to the way it's used - well the player is easy enough, four arrow keys, start, select, ABXY but Zquest, if we do rewrite ZC in SDL instead of allegro some changes will be inevitable (the current UI is made with an allegro library) but we'd really have to weigh up the benefits of making a "windows" (wx? GTK?) user interface versus the time compared to rewriting the whole thing in SDL.

My main objections to scripting are two: One, that the golden days of ZC where when the interface was so limited that you could learn it in a few days and then start making quests - as Migo mentioned, limits sparked creativity. Two, that the days when ZC was stable were before it became so complex. Not starting with scripting could possibly mean we have the end product ready a year sooner, and quests take half as long to make.

Edited by Koopa, 12 June 2010 - 04:36 AM.

[Lemmy Koopa]

Man, I'm just getting the hang of Zscript!
As long as it's not hard to learn though, and is beneficial to change to it, then I guess I can try to learn a new language again.

[Beefster]

There would be nothing stopping you from making QBert. The engine would be fully capable of making a classic-styled Zelda game. And once again, the changes are mostly internal and the UI would feel the same, except with wx instead of Allegro.

There's also nothing stopping us from making a ZScript to ZPython translator.

Like I previously said, I would be willing to help with this rewrite. I've been programming since I was 12...

[lucas92]

Well, if this is actually going to be started someday, I would love to help, but I don't have much experience in programming such big programs, and I doubt a lot of people here have experience at all.

btw, the biggest open source must be OpenTTD XD.
http://www.openttd.org/en/

When I look at the code source, I have a hard time finding the main entry point!

[Siguy]

o hai guyz wats goin on in dis thread?

Do screens still have that ridiculous size limitation?

[lucas92]

^That's an another point why there should be a rewrite of Zelda Classic : the screen size!

[Cameron]

I thought we were going to leave ZScript in and just ADD Python. That way new users and people who already use Python could use it and old users could use ZScript and maybe learn Python.

[Beefster]

That was the original plan, yes, but I figured it'd save engine power to only have one scripting language. You can still program in ZScript, but it will compile to Python instead of ZASM.

[Brandon1]

How about NeoZelda for a name?

The idea is marvelous, Zelda Classic still works like Windows 95, is this only being worked on by one person or what? Although I cannot complain, they're doing this without expecting anything in exchange.