147 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Steel]

No, don't have a single dungeon for the entire triforce. They did that in Skyward Sword and it was so LAME! So much worse then Ocarina of Time where you had it all along.

[The Satellite]

I dunno, I liked the way Sky Keep worked. It was a puzzle in and of itself, which was clever. But eh, I dunno. I'm honestly not too miffed with the current Triforce Hunt, but I don't see too many ways they could improve it.

[The Satellite]

Four Swords Adventures

 

Strangely, there's not a lot of development history for this one. Perhaps the most interesting thing of note is that it was originally going to be packaged with some minigame quest known as Tetra's Trackers, which actually had full voice-acting, at least with Tetra. It had something to do with stamps and obstacles and I don't really know, I forget. That's not important anyway, so back to Four Swords Adventures.

 

When the announcement of Four Swords Adventures came around, I was a bit confused. I at first thought it was merely a port of the original game to Gamecube, with a single-player attached to it. But nope, it was a fully-fledged adventure all its own, way beyond the scope of the measly Four Swords. Let's remember that at the time I had no experience of the original Four Swords, so I didn't possess the disapproval of the game as I have now. Quite the opposite, I wished dearly that I could play it. So when I learned of Four Swords Adventures, I was fairly excited, I'd get to play a Four Swords game without needing all the extra attachments, and see what all the fuss was about.

 

Instead of talk about it from my original impressions, I'd instead like to approach it from the angle of a player who played Four Swords first. I'd only completed this game once before anyhow, so my memory of it isn't the greatest. And may I say, Four Swords Adventures is a game that improves on Four Swords so well that it's barely recognizable that it has any relation to Four Swords. I suppose I should make mention that while Four Swords was Capcom, Four Swords Adventures was actually by Nintendo, and had no Capcom involvement. That might explain why it's a much stronger entry, since Nintendo is more likely to know how certain things should work in a Zelda entry, as strange a one Four Swords Adventures is.

 

Now, I suppose I should start by getting the obvious negatives out of the way: Everyone needs a Game Boy Advance to play it, and a GBA-to-GCN link cable? That's a bit steep. There really weren't many games that used the GBA link cable for anything truly interesting, so it's not likely anyone owned one at that time. I suppose maybe Nintendo's aim was to give the item a selling point in Four Swords Adventures, but I somehow doubt people went out to buy it just for this game. Fortunately, the single-player mode can use either the GBA and link cable or just a regular GCN controller, and the "GBA screen" just pops up on the TV whenever you need it.

 

Anyways, while Four Swords had a heavier focus on competition, Four Swords Adventures focused more on cooperation. This felt more fitting to the Zelda franchise, in my opinion, so I was okay with this. That's not to say you can't be competitive with each other, but you'd be much better off helping out each other. The GBA attachment also had its own usage: Whenever you entered a cave or house or certain segments of dungeons, Link would travel to the GBA, where the interior would be displayed on your GBA and you controlled Link, searching the area for secrets, switches, or items. If you were playing single-player without a GBA, like mentioned above, this would just pop up on your TV, with the GCN overworld in the background. It was a neat feature, though the time it took between entering and leaving these segments could be somewhat tedious, but I imagine that might be to accommodate for rendering times. The graphics displayed also seemed underwhelming, especially considering the GBA's capabilities, but whether or not that's because graphics capabilities are limited when it comes to GCN-to-GBA rendering (maybe it's due to low GBA flash memory?) I have no clue. I also do feel there could have been maybe a little bit more they could have done with this idea, but I suppose they did well for their first attempt at the idea. Wasn't anything completely mind-blowing, but it wasn't half-bad either.

 

As for what else Four Swords Adventures does, it ditches the scenarios setup from Four Swords for an episodic format. It's... different, but arguably better than the scenario format. It certainly isn't the same as an open world, which would be more preferable, but the game manages to work well with what it has. The game is split up into eight "levels," which are regions of Hyrule, and three episodes within, usually ending in a dungeon and boss fight, though sometimes you'll find two dungeons in one level. While I would prefer the typical Zelda style of having an open world and traveling to places to complete them, the episodes in this game are at least engaging, giving you objectives and obstacles to overcome before you can move on. Oh, I suppose I should cover the story quickly...

 

Vaati's escaped again go get him.

 

... So it's a bit more in-depth. The story opens recounting the backstory of Four Swords once more, as well as briefly adding on the story of Four Swords, though curiously naming Link and Zelda. The Four Sword itself is given more significance, guarded by six Shrine Maidens who keep anyone from entering the Sanctuary of the Four Sword. There are also four royal jewels, given to the care of four Knights of Hyrule, that, when collected and brought to the Sanctuary, open the path to the Realm of the Heavens, accessed via the Tower of Winds. This you don't learn until later; the game itself opens with Zelda and the Maidens welcoming Link to the Sanctuary, Zelda believing something is wrong. Then a Shadow Link appears, sealing the Maidens and Zelda away in crystals, forcing Link to draw the Four Sword to fend it off, splitting himself into four and releasing Vaati in the process. The Links are blasted away by his magic, and are awakened by Kaepora Gaebora. Don't worry, he's not annoying at all in this game. And thus, a new journey begins.

 

What's interesting is how intuitive and fluid the controls of the game are. And the funny little things you can do if you're paying attention. You can control all four Links, using either the C-stick or holding Y and choosing an option from a menu to line them up vertically, horizontally, in a box, or in a "cross" formation with all of them facing outwards. Or you can use X to switch through each Link and control them individually. These open up a few different and unique puzzle types, which are fun, or can even be used in certain objectives, like using the cross formation to safely lead Malon past a line of cannons. As far as other controls, Link slashes, can stab backwards during a sword combo, can spin attack either by holding down B or rotating the control stick in a circle and pressing B... and can even attack with an item he's holding. Even another Link. There's nothing more funny or satisfying than picking up a fellow Link and bashing an enemy to death with him. Link also moves at a fair speed, and can roll, reducing travel time so long as you or another Link are not carrying an item; they'll throw it if you try to roll. Still, the speed isn't too slow at all, which is a vast improvement over Four Swords.

 

The new element this game introduces is Force Gems. They appear to be pseudo-replacements for rupees, as in occasional situations they're used as currency, but their main purpose is to power up the Four Sword. This is accomplished by collecting 2,000 of them in each episode. That may seem like a staggering amount, but the game typically will throw them at you, so you won't have a hard time reaching that amount, and there are other ways to boost your chances of finding them as well. The powered up Four Sword will then be stronger, shoot sword beams, and be able to break the dark barriers at the end of each episode so you can proceed to the next one. It seems a bit of a forced concept but you learn to just accept it by the end. Tacked onto this, though, is Tingle, who you rescue early, and whose goal is to collect Force Gems because... something something something fairies. He also requests you share any you find with him. Yeah... right. No. He'll often appear in outdoor areas (never indoor areas or in the last level) when large Force Gems appear, but you can usually collect them pretty quickly, or at least pop his balloon to spare you some time. There's a segment where you're racing him for a large 1,000 Force Gem, and it's one of the most frantic moments in the series for me. Maybe a little joking. Otherwise, at worst, he's just an annoying appearance that doesn't pose much of a problem. Most of the time.

 

Also hidden in each episode are blue bracelets or heart containers, which, like your Force Gem count, resets each episode. You start with four hearts, three filled in, and can find up to four more in each episode. Blue bracelets, which cut damage you take in half, can show up more than once, but I don't know if they stack, or if all Links receive one or a heart container in multiplayer if only one person picks one up. There are also Force Fairies, which can be acquired at the end of an episode (one per thousand Force Gems) or hidden in the episode. They appear in large numbers, reviving you if you lose all hearts. The game doesn't end unless you use up all of them. Kind of takes out the difficulty a large notch, but there are truly only a few places where you're at the risk of dying anyway.

 

Of course, Zelda games need bosses, and Four Swords Adventures does deliver. There's a few little negligible enemies, like Zelda 1 Dodongos, but there are also some very neat fights as well. Wind Waker's Phantom Ganon shows up twice; the first fight is a typical Dead Man's Volley showdown, while the second takes it up a notch: There are four Phantom Ganons, only one is real, and they'll all shoot energy balls at you, but you can only deflect the ones fired by the real thing. This would make for a difficult fight, and a very good one, but it doesn't take many hits to end him. At least one other Zelda 1 boss appears as well, a Manhandla, with its heads recolored so that only a certain color Link can destroy them. Heck, we even get a Moldorm rematch, with a new look and a tail that can only be damaged by a certain color Link. He splits in two at one point, but otherwise, don't worry, he's not nearly as frustrating as his A Link to the Past counterpart. There are also other neat fights, such as Helmaroc King and Frostare, a successor to Kholdstare. Vaati has a neat fight, if not on the short side, and the final battle with the true final boss, Ganon, is fairly straightforward, but if you're not careful, he can punish you with his attacks. While not every boss fight is fantastic, the boss fights in this game are actually fairly strong and topnotch, standing proudly with other bosses in the series.

 

The game is also just so full of a ton of fun little touches, such as being able to attack things with the item you're holding, or how, after a boss explodes, sparkles fill the area, or in the snowy areas, little puffs of air are seen coming from the Links' mouths. Nintendo knows how to make an atmosphere, and they did it well in this game. The graphical style is also very interesting; it draws a lot from A Link to the Past, though with some improvements and a bit of a painting-like layer added to it, while also using some updated and new sprites, as well as several new effects, such as cel-shaded explosions and fires with Wind Waker sound effects mixed in with old-school effects. They blend fairly well for the most part, though sometimes an old-school effect might sound a bit jarring in comparison. Still, it's a really neat blend of styles, quite pleasant to look at and listen to, and I like what they did with it.

 

Speaking of A Link to the Past, the graphics aren't the only similarities to the legendary game. Four Swords Adventures includes several references to it, such as music, characters, and themes. The soldier enemy returns (in droves), with a much-updated and actually difficult ball-and-chain soldier. Lots of other A Link to the Past enemies appear. Ganon resembles how he did in the SNES classic, trident and all. It's actually interesting to note that the story of Four Swords Adventures was vastly different in development, and that text dumps even mention the Master Sword and Link's inability to obtain it. Supposedly, Four Swords Adventures would have been meant to tell the story of the Imprisoning War mentioned in A Link to the Past's backstory, before this was changed at some point in development. With Four Swords Adventures not even taking place on the same timeline as A Link to the Past, it's safe to assume the two stories are unrelated. Still, the references are pretty astounding, and it's interesting to wonder whether it can instead be considered that timeline's version of A Link to the Past. Ya know, if they still had the "three timeline" story back when they made this game.

 

One other "reference" is the return of the Dark World... in name only. There's a "Dark World" in the game, but it's not the Dark World from A Link to the Past. It's merely some sort of parallel dimension that interacts with the main world. Okay, so that's a lot like the other Dark World, but this one retains the same appearance. It's also limited to one screen, which also appears on your GBA, and it does open up a couple of neat interfaces, such as navigating areas to solve puzzles or fighting enemies across the two worlds. Later on, you can even go to the Dark World and drag one of the Links in the Light World to a place they can't access before to solve puzzles. Lots of neat ideas, though again, like the GBA idea in general, it feels like they could have done a little bit more with this. Maybe a sequel with modern technology and fewer limitations?

 

The Dark World has plot relevance as an evil alternate realm, though again unrelated to the Dark World of A Link to the Past despite the somewhat similarities. It can only be accessed through certain portals, or you create them by finding Moon Pearls, which suddenly now have a completely different usage: To open the portals, which you can sense with the Four Sword by looking for patches of ground that sparkle when you get nearby. It's apparently related to a Dark Mirror, which an evil tribe was sealed in long ago. It's also where the Shadow Links come from. Speaking of these, they appear often, usually just as a minor obstacle that, if you kill fast enough, drop 100 Force Gems. Sometimes they're there as a must-kill-to-progress miniboss, or will constantly spawn Big Bombs that will kill you instantly unless you're in your GBA. You navigate these screens to survive. These are neat obstacles, but feel a little overused in the end.

 

One complaint I had about Four Swords was that there were never any real puzzle opportunities with the swapping items feature, since if you saw an item, you knew you had to use it. Four Swords Adventures does manage to switch that up a little, making you pick your items a bit more wisely. It isn't perfect, but at least that system was improved a little bit.

 

So yeah. I managed to touch on this one a lot, more than I expected. I guess it's because it did a lot of neat things, and to be honest, I really liked it. It manages to feel lengthy and challenging, and has lots of neat puzzles and areas and dungeons. Not the best dungeons in the series, but enjoyable ones. It also doesn't bombard you with story, and has a nice balance that doesn't interrupt your gameplay annoyingly. That, and all messages can be scrolled through quickly, so you're not waiting around for text to load. Four Swords Adventures, despite its vastly different design, does a ton of things right. I actually enjoy it more than a few of the games I've played through since starting this series. It's not one I'd be quick to replay, but then, with nearly every Zelda game I prefer to wait a while between playthroughs anyway. Call me insane, but Four Swords Adventures is a pretty enjoyable game. And like most Zelda games since Ocarina of Time, it even ends in a lovely credits sequence that shows how everyone celebrates Link's victory or how the world's healing afterward. Not the best one in the series, but just tack that on as another reason to love the series.

 

So yeah, that's Four Swords Adventures, a surprisingly fun game. I enjoy it highly. But, as I mentioned in my Four Swords chronicle, is it enough to justify the original Four Swords being canon rather than a spin-off game? Well... on its own, I unfortunately would have to say no. The plot's pretty standalone, and when you look at its placement now (on the Child Timeline after Twilight Princess), it doesn't really add much. Sure, it brings back Ganon and an opportunity for his return and escape, and there's a lot of potential links between Four Swords Adventure's Dark Mirror and Twilight Princess' Mirror of Twilight, which I won't be getting into in this thread at all since that's not the purpose of this thread, but it kind of stands as an odd one out, not as much as Four Swords, but still. The Minish Cap will be the final decider of whether Four Swords deserved to be a canon game. Fortunately, that's the next game, so I will be able to revisit this shortly. But despite all this, Four Swords Adventures is a game I enjoy immensely, and would play again, and would recommend.

 

[kurt91]

I don't actually own this game, but I did play a copy that my cousin owned several years ago. From what I remember, I only got as far as some fire dungeon with Dodongos in it. Anyways, I don't have much to say about this game except that when I played it, I remember not enjoying it as much as other Zelda games, but not being able to figure out what it was. Looking back at it now, I would have to say that it was the way the progression worked that bothered me so much.

 

You mentioned how each level starts you off at three Hearts, and you have to search out 2000 Force Gems, the Blue Bracelet, and up to four Heart Containers. The problem I had was that you lost it all once you finished the level, so there was no real sense of progression. Each level ended up feeling like its own small and separate experience instead of being part of some much larger adventure. I think I would have liked the game much more if they toned down the upgrades per-level, possibly replacing the four hidden Heart Containers with Pieces of Heart, and letting you keep your power-ups between levels. At least, do it like that for the single-player mode, and keep multi-player the same. (I didn't have any other people to play with who liked to play video games, and buying four GBA systems along with connection cords and such is freaking expensive.)

[The Satellite]

I actually meant to mention something in my chronicle, though that's probably for the best since it's so obscenely long in the first place, but that's what the game would be like if it was remade like a full Zelda game, with a big, open overworld, a traditional inventory, and items and gear carrying over. It would be a major overhaul, but I think it's something that, if they did well, would make FSA one of the best games in the series. I doubt we'd ever get such a thing, and are more likely to get another Four Swords sequel, but hey, maybe that Four Swords sequel would be more like what I described. Not sure how multiplayer would be handled in a game like that, though. Especially since Four Swords games are all about the multiplayer (even if single-player is an option), so it would more likely be tailored toward multiple people than a single-player adventure, though I'm sure they could come up with something on that. Sure, FSA isn't perfect, but I like it a lot. Call me crazy if you must.

[The Satellite]

The Minish Cap

 

This game made me sick to my stomach.

 

Nah, the fact that my completing this game coinciding with contracting a stomach bug is completely coincidental. Couldn't resist.

 

The Minish Cap... I don't know where I was before the release of this, or what I knew about it before it came out. I think nothing, honestly, and the first mention I ever saw of it was in the same Nintendo Power issue that gave us the first glimpses ever of Twilight Princess. I think it never really grabbed my attention, or nothing about the game made me want to run out and grab it as soon as possible. I don't know. I just don't remember ever being enthusiastic for The Minish Cap at any point.

 

Anyway, here lies Capcom's last endeavor in the Zelda series, and I gotta say, after the success of the Oracle games... what happened? Let's ignore Four Swords and just focus on The Minish Cap. Well, can't truly ignore Four Swords since The Minish Cap seems to borrow its engine. That was their first mistake. The Four Swords engine was so slow-paced and imperfect that it's a wonder Capcom thought it was a good idea to reuse it. As a result, The Minish Cap also feels painfully slow, especially in comparison to, well, pretty much the entire series, which is fairly fast-paced since action is a major focus.

 

The Minish Cap is just littered with ridiculous tedium, that even its brightest spots can't overcome. Now let's start with the big gimmick of the game, the ability to shrink to tiny size. This is alright, it's neat to be tiny and see things from a small perspective, and meet with the titular Minish race. Some interesting stuff is pulled off with this. No complaints about this at all, except maybe some of the sections you enter while tiny are way too... straight. Actually, a lot of things are too straight in this game. Like water edges, and dirt patches. It didn't truly irk me, I guess it worked with the graphical style, but something to note.

 

The game is, at the very least, pretty. It has a neat graphical style, but the problem is arrangement. It has a charm to it, and yet it seems to somehow lack an adventurous feel. Maybe it's the tediousness of much of the game, but there's also the fact that unless you explore every house in Castle Town, finding a shop or a person you need to see is mostly guesswork; there's really no clear indications of who lives where. Not even a sign outside the house! Very disappointing, not an aspect I'm pleased with.

 

So, I keep talking about this "tediousness" and haven't exactly addressed it specifically yet. Well, I mean all the quests in-between dungeons. You're sent through a series of slow and tedious navigation sequences to find your next objective and the dungeon. It's not all bad in the beginning, but goes swiftly downhill after level one. And don't get me started on Ezlo, the new helper who manifests as a hat and spends his time on Link's head. The stuff he points out to Link... If people complained about Navi pointing out the obvious, Ezlo is the guy who keeps reminding you to breathe. Seriously, I found myself begging for an off switch. Not really, but often I'd find myself already knowing or guessing at the solution to a room and in the middle of attempting to carry it out he pops up and tells me what to do. Seriously, what is with the handholding in this game? We're not even at the point yet where handholding in Zelda games was over the top, the worst offender was that one segment in Oracle of Ages where three different groups of people all but tell you what to do and it's mandatory dialogue. Even the friggin' Maku Tree interrupted everything to practically repeat what the Gorons just told you. Ezlo is another sore spot of the game that severely drags it down.

 

Back to the tedium. Sure, exploration of areas in Zelda to find the way forward is a staple of the series, but when the entirety of it seems like forced fluff in attempt to buff out the length of the game somewhat, there's a problem. Not to mention the forced backtracking in some areas. Oh, and there was that library sidequest. That sidequest is an abomination, especially the second book; there's no indication of Dr. Left's existence up until that point unless you searched really thoroughly, and then accessing his house is a chore; you have to find a pot, shrink to Minish size, go across a plank on the river flowing through town, talk to a dog blocking the path for normal-size Link, then go back around and enter the house, talk to Dr. Left, then leave and come back as a Minish to go on another detour to get the Power Bracelets (which curiously only work in Minish form), then go back and move some bookcases so you can get to the ceiling and find the book. Granted the last part is clever but the rest... my God, what was Capcom thinking?

 

So... yeah. The Minish Cap has a ton of problems. That's not to say it doesn't have good parts, not at all. For example, the new items they created as well as the returning items from previous games work pretty well, with my only complaint being the Gust Jar; it's a neat concept, but it's a bit unwieldy and slow to use. Often I found myself trying to put it away and move out of the way of an incoming attack only to be hit anyway because of how slow the Gust Jar worked. This is a problem when the two boss/miniboss fights that require the item involve an enemy that likes jumping at you. Otherwise, the new items are neat, and I like the Cane of Pacci; it was given some neat uses, like using it on a hole in the ground and then launching yourself to a higher platform.

 

The idea of splitting yourself into multiple Links was neat... if it only took less time. I apparently missed an upgrade that let the charge go faster, which would have helped make some of the boss fights less annoying. Speaking of bosses, these ranged from good to bad, with particular standouts being the boss of the Palace of Winds (despite the previously-mentioned annoyance with splitting Links) and the fight against Vaati. The big ChuChu was an interesting idea but... really? You're gonna make that the guardian of a sacred element? Still, except for the Temple of Droplets boss, which suffered from bad design and stupid unpredictability, the bosses are more or less solid.

 

The dungeon design, while not bad, never really crossed into spectacular territory. Temple of Droplets had a neat fakeout and was a pretty good dungeon minus a few complaints, Palace of Winds was a pretty good dungeon, and even Dark Hyrule Castle was pretty fun; at least they didn't skimp out on the final level. Still though, while there were clever puzzles throughout, I never really felt like the dungeons were ever truly great, which is a disappointment from the team that brought us the Oracle games and their dungeons. Ya know, excluding Jabu-Jabu.

 

If there's one thing I really did like about the game, it's that they actually managed to make Link and Zelda seem like, well, children. Zelda was a princess, but she was also an excitable child who was eager to see all the attractions at the festival. And she also is a good friend to Link, who wins a contest and picks a prize for him. It's really sweet, and I enjoyed that relationship, though it was incredibly short-lived, as Zelda's turned to stone early on and isn't reawakened until the ending. As far as Link, it's his actions, expressions, and things hinted at by Ezlo, such as apparently being thrilled by the high-speed mine cart ride when Ezlo seems to note a smile on his face. It's a feeling that I enjoyed about the game, and definitely something they did right.

 

The story of the game... well, it was mostly alright, though Vaati, for having a bit of a loyal following, didn't really seem very interesting as a villain. His motive was... power. How exciting. Not really moving or interesting. Here was a chance to truly go into the backstory of this new mysterious villain from Four Swords and its sequel, and instead we get... a really straightforward motive. The only real interesting bit is that he was a Minish with a connection to Ezlo, but otherwise... not very interesting. That's a bit of a disappointment too.

 

So, overall, The Minish Cap unfortunately receives some low marks from me. Charming graphics with lovable Link and Zelda characters, good items and (most) bosses, and fairly good dungeon design bogged down by immensely tedious sidequests and beyond-irritating handholding. Which is saddening, after Capcom delivered us the Oracle games, they gave us something that was not only inferior to the Oracle games, but to nearly the rest of the Zelda series. I actually kind of wonder what kind of Zelda game for GBA we would have gotten if Nintendo made their own instead; they didn't even make one for GBA, which is surprising.

 

And now, I conclude by once more revisiting whether or not this game and Four Swords Adventures justify the original Four Swords being considered a canon addition to the series. Unfortunately, I cannot say that this is the case. As much as I did enjoy Four Swords Adventures, I just didn't enjoy The Minish Cap as much as I wish I could have. The story across the trilogy is fairly consistent and interesting, but also self-contained for the most part; the Minish or the Four Sword are never referenced outside the games, the Light Force being the source of the Royal Family's power contradicts it coming from the bloodline of the goddess Hylia, and while Force Gems appear again, their purpose is completely different than in Four Swords Adventures. Maybe the stories will expand in the future, but until then, Four Swords has not yet been vindicated. Sorry, Capcom.

[DCEnygma]

Welp, it had to happen eventually. I disagree with you sir, and the only way to settle this is fisticuffs. I challenge you to the manliest form of challenge: a fight to the death! What-ho!

 

...actually I see where you're coming from on a lot of these points, and you probably have a different perspective having experienced so many of these games so close together in a reletively short period. I agree that the engine felt slower, and that's something that could've been resolved by simply making the overworld just a bit smaller so there wasn't so much dead space.

 

Your comments about hand-holding make me think there's going to be some vitriol levied against Twilight Princess, since one of the only issues I've had (and it has really irritated me a number of times) is the frequency of handholding in that game. To an absolutely ridiculous level, actually. I shall look forward to that review, and I will continue to enjoy reading these!

[The Satellite]

Honestly, I didn't feel the handholding was as bad anywhere else in the series as it was in The Minish Cap. Midna was probably my least-favorite helper before I was introduced to Ezlo, sure, but it wasn't due to handholding, so much as it was dumb interruptions and, well, I'll get to that. Actually, I don't even really recall Twilight Princess holding your hand that much, or at least not in an as-intrusive way as The Minish Cap gave us. I suppose we shall see, since it's next up.

 

I really wish The Minish Cap left a better taste in my mouth, I really do, but... it just couldn't. There were just too many obstacles I never want to see again, and... wow, did I really not talk about Kinstones? Those were... just kind of... different. Not bad, but not really exciting either. The Cloud Tops Kinstone quest was just completely nonsensical too; fuse Kinstones on clouds to activate pinwheels to blow away a cloud that leads to the Wind Tribe's home? I mean, the Kinstones on the clouds isn't the problem, it's the rest of it. Just a flat-out "what."

 

I think it's interesting to note that of the three games in the saga of the Four Sword, Nintendo's was the most interesting throughout regarding its story. I suppose I was wrong about the games being "self-contained," as Four Swords Adventures does well to pull from the lore of earlier games, but that's the only game that does so. Honestly, it's the only one of the three games that gives us something interesting to build off of in the future, while the others... Well, the backstory explained in the original Four Swords apparently isn't the events of The Minish Cap, so there's perhaps another game there, and Vaati is still alive in at least one timeline. The Decline Timeline, that is; I'd like to think Nintendo would leave the Adult Timeline alone, and just keep the gap between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker empty, with the only new games in that timeline being games that take place after Spirit Tracks, or even a final sequel to Wind Waker that tells us what happens after Phantom Hourglass. So basically, as Hyrule drowns, so does Vaati. I suppose there could and probably will be a game that follows the events of Four Swords Adventures, but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a Four Swords game, or that the Four Sword will be featured at all except in the history. Heck, maybe Ganon would be strong enough to break the Four Sword, that would be both intimidating and would prevent another Four Swords game, lol.

 

Ah well, onward to Twilight Princess, which I've actually kind of been looking forward to. Four games left. I can see the end now...

[kurt91]

I actually really liked Minish Cap a lot. I loved how the artwork looked, even though it kept the same functionality as the Oracle games, and the settings themselves were very creative. This was the first game I had played with Vaati as the villain, and while I did miss the traditional fight with Ganon, it was a decent change of pace.

 

I agree, Ezlo was a bit annoying. It would have been better if his tutorial comments were reserved for only when you hit the "I Need Help" button, but I didn't mind the snarking and complaining. I liked that bit about Midna as well. The enemies and bosses were pretty fun, and I liked the idea of the first dungeon's boss only showing up by accident and needing to kill it only because it was in the way and dangerous. I kind of wish that we'd have gotten more normal enemies as bosses to fight while Minish sized. It would have been fun to have to colossus-climb our way up a Moblin or Darknut as an epic boss battle.

 

I only really hated the library side-quest, navigating Castor Wilds, and the mandatory Kinstone bits. The first two because of the lack of direction and difficulty navigating, and the latter because it seemed rather dumb and silly for such a major part of a Zelda game. If they're so important and popular, as well as magical in the way they are, why were they never mentioned in any other game?

 

I also recall preferring the Master Sword over the Four Sword. Wielding the Master Sword just feels more powerful and fits better than a sword with a weird gimmick that requires all the extra effort to activate. Still, I suppose having the Master Sword to fight Ganon and the Four Sword to fight Vaati in all the different games works. (Is it just me, or does every single villain in the series have their own counterpart sword to fight them with?)

 

I suppose in the end, the big thing that made me love this game so much was the graphics, which I suppose explains why there's been such an effort to make a full version that works in ZC even though there's too many colors. It's kind of sad that they made such a beautiful tileset, but only used it once. I would have loved to see at least one more classic-style handheld Zelda game that looked like this. I really don't like the direction the handheld games went after Minish Cap.

[The Satellite]

The enemies and bosses were pretty fun, and I liked the idea of the first dungeon's boss only showing up by accident and needing to kill it only because it was in the way and dangerous. I kind of wish that we'd have gotten more normal enemies as bosses to fight while Minish sized. It would have been fun to have to colossus-climb our way up a Moblin or Darknut as an epic boss battle.

While I admit your example is neat, we at least got to use Minish form for other uses, like climbing into an Armos or part of certain bosses. And we had two ChuChu fights and an Octorok for large versions of regular enemies, I think we did well there.
 

I really don't like the direction the handheld games went after Minish Cap.

All the development was going into Twilight Princess before Phantom Hourglass came out, so they may have been more pressed to come up with something for the DS due to the three year delay after the launch of the DS. Who knows? And besides, maybe A Link Between Worlds is a sign of good things to come, assuming future games use the same top-down style though hopefully with an original overworld in the future. We shall see, I suppose. 

[JetBox]

Four Swords Adventures

 

Strangely, there's not a lot of development history for this one. Perhaps the most interesting thing of note is that it was originally going to be packaged with some minigame quest known as Tetra's Trackers, which actually had full voice-acting, at least with Tetra. It had something to do with stamps and obstacles and I don't really know, I forget. That's not important anyway, so back to Four Swords Adventures.

 

When the announcement of Four Swords Adventures came around, I was a bit confused. I at first thought it was merely a port of the original game to Gamecube, with a single-player attached to it. But nope, it was a fully-fledged adventure all its own, way beyond the scope of the measly Four Swords. Let's remember that at the time I had no experience of the original Four Swords, so I didn't possess the disapproval of the game as I have now. Quite the opposite, I wished dearly that I could play it. So when I learned of Four Swords Adventures, I was fairly excited, I'd get to play a Four Swords game without needing all the extra attachments, and see what all the fuss was about.

 

Instead of talk about it from my original impressions, I'd instead like to approach it from the angle of a player who played Four Swords first. I'd only completed this game once before anyhow, so my memory of it isn't the greatest. And may I say, Four Swords Adventures is a game that improves on Four Swords so well that it's barely recognizable that it has any relation to Four Swords. I suppose I should make mention that while Four Swords was Capcom, Four Swords Adventures was actually by Nintendo, and had no Capcom involvement. That might explain why it's a much stronger entry, since Nintendo is more likely to know how certain things should work in a Zelda entry, as strange a one Four Swords Adventures is.

 

Now, I suppose I should start by getting the obvious negatives out of the way: Everyone needs a Game Boy Advance to play it, and a GBA-to-GCN link cable? That's a bit steep. There really weren't many games that used the GBA link cable for anything truly interesting, so it's not likely anyone owned one at that time. I suppose maybe Nintendo's aim was to give the item a selling point in Four Swords Adventures, but I somehow doubt people went out to buy it just for this game. Fortunately, the single-player mode can use either the GBA and link cable or just a regular GCN controller, and the "GBA screen" just pops up on the TV whenever you need it.

 

Anyways, while Four Swords had a heavier focus on competition, Four Swords Adventures focused more on cooperation. This felt more fitting to the Zelda franchise, in my opinion, so I was okay with this. That's not to say you can't be competitive with each other, but you'd be much better off helping out each other. The GBA attachment also had its own usage: Whenever you entered a cave or house or certain segments of dungeons, Link would travel to the GBA, where the interior would be displayed on your GBA and you controlled Link, searching the area for secrets, switches, or items. If you were playing single-player without a GBA, like mentioned above, this would just pop up on your TV, with the GCN overworld in the background. It was a neat feature, though the time it took between entering and leaving these segments could be somewhat tedious, but I imagine that might be to accommodate for rendering times. The graphics displayed also seemed underwhelming, especially considering the GBA's capabilities, but whether or not that's because graphics capabilities are limited when it comes to GCN-to-GBA rendering (maybe it's due to low GBA flash memory?) I have no clue. I also do feel there could have been maybe a little bit more they could have done with this idea, but I suppose they did well for their first attempt at the idea. Wasn't anything completely mind-blowing, but it wasn't half-bad either.

 

As for what else Four Swords Adventures does, it ditches the scenarios setup from Four Swords for an episodic format. It's... different, but arguably better than the scenario format. It certainly isn't the same as an open world, which would be more preferable, but the game manages to work well with what it has. The game is split up into eight "levels," which are regions of Hyrule, and three episodes within, usually ending in a dungeon and boss fight, though sometimes you'll find two dungeons in one level. While I would prefer the typical Zelda style of having an open world and traveling to places to complete them, the episodes in this game are at least engaging, giving you objectives and obstacles to overcome before you can move on. Oh, I suppose I should cover the story quickly...

 

Vaati's escaped again go get him.

 

... So it's a bit more in-depth. The story opens recounting the backstory of Four Swords once more, as well as briefly adding on the story of Four Swords, though curiously naming Link and Zelda. The Four Sword itself is given more significance, guarded by six Shrine Maidens who keep anyone from entering the Sanctuary of the Four Sword. There are also four royal jewels, given to the care of four Knights of Hyrule, that, when collected and brought to the Sanctuary, open the path to the Realm of the Heavens, accessed via the Tower of Winds. This you don't learn until later; the game itself opens with Zelda and the Maidens welcoming Link to the Sanctuary, Zelda believing something is wrong. Then a Shadow Link appears, sealing the Maidens and Zelda away in crystals, forcing Link to draw the Four Sword to fend it off, splitting himself into four and releasing Vaati in the process. The Links are blasted away by his magic, and are awakened by Kaepora Gaebora. Don't worry, he's not annoying at all in this game. And thus, a new journey begins.

 

What's interesting is how intuitive and fluid the controls of the game are. And the funny little things you can do if you're paying attention. You can control all four Links, using either the C-stick or holding Y and choosing an option from a menu to line them up vertically, horizontally, in a box, or in a "cross" formation with all of them facing outwards. Or you can use X to switch through each Link and control them individually. These open up a few different and unique puzzle types, which are fun, or can even be used in certain objectives, like using the cross formation to safely lead Malon past a line of cannons. As far as other controls, Link slashes, can stab backwards during a sword combo, can spin attack either by holding down B or rotating the control stick in a circle and pressing B... and can even attack with an item he's holding. Even another Link. There's nothing more funny or satisfying than picking up a fellow Link and bashing an enemy to death with him. Link also moves at a fair speed, and can roll, reducing travel time so long as you or another Link are not carrying an item; they'll throw it if you try to roll. Still, the speed isn't too slow at all, which is a vast improvement over Four Swords.

 

The new element this game introduces is Force Gems. They appear to be pseudo-replacements for rupees, as in occasional situations they're used as currency, but their main purpose is to power up the Four Sword. This is accomplished by collecting 2,000 of them in each episode. That may seem like a staggering amount, but the game typically will throw them at you, so you won't have a hard time reaching that amount, and there are other ways to boost your chances of finding them as well. The powered up Four Sword will then be stronger, shoot sword beams, and be able to break the dark barriers at the end of each episode so you can proceed to the next one. It seems a bit of a forced concept but you learn to just accept it by the end. Tacked onto this, though, is Tingle, who you rescue early, and whose goal is to collect Force Gems because... something something something fairies. He also requests you share any you find with him. Yeah... right. No. He'll often appear in outdoor areas (never indoor areas or in the last level) when large Force Gems appear, but you can usually collect them pretty quickly, or at least pop his balloon to spare you some time. There's a segment where you're racing him for a large 1,000 Force Gem, and it's one of the most frantic moments in the series for me. Maybe a little joking. Otherwise, at worst, he's just an annoying appearance that doesn't pose much of a problem. Most of the time.

 

Also hidden in each episode are blue bracelets or heart containers, which, like your Force Gem count, resets each episode. You start with four hearts, three filled in, and can find up to four more in each episode. Blue bracelets, which cut damage you take in half, can show up more than once, but I don't know if they stack, or if all Links receive one or a heart container in multiplayer if only one person picks one up. There are also Force Fairies, which can be acquired at the end of an episode (one per thousand Force Gems) or hidden in the episode. They appear in large numbers, reviving you if you lose all hearts. The game doesn't end unless you use up all of them. Kind of takes out the difficulty a large notch, but there are truly only a few places where you're at the risk of dying anyway.

 

Of course, Zelda games need bosses, and Four Swords Adventures does deliver. There's a few little negligible enemies, like Zelda 1 Dodongos, but there are also some very neat fights as well. Wind Waker's Phantom Ganon shows up twice; the first fight is a typical Dead Man's Volley showdown, while the second takes it up a notch: There are four Phantom Ganons, only one is real, and they'll all shoot energy balls at you, but you can only deflect the ones fired by the real thing. This would make for a difficult fight, and a very good one, but it doesn't take many hits to end him. At least one other Zelda 1 boss appears as well, a Manhandla, with its heads recolored so that only a certain color Link can destroy them. Heck, we even get a Moldorm rematch, with a new look and a tail that can only be damaged by a certain color Link. He splits in two at one point, but otherwise, don't worry, he's not nearly as frustrating as his A Link to the Past counterpart. There are also other neat fights, such as Helmaroc King and Frostare, a successor to Kholdstare. Vaati has a neat fight, if not on the short side, and the final battle with the true final boss, Ganon, is fairly straightforward, but if you're not careful, he can punish you with his attacks. While not every boss fight is fantastic, the boss fights in this game are actually fairly strong and topnotch, standing proudly with other bosses in the series.

 

The game is also just so full of a ton of fun little touches, such as being able to attack things with the item you're holding, or how, after a boss explodes, sparkles fill the area, or in the snowy areas, little puffs of air are seen coming from the Links' mouths. Nintendo knows how to make an atmosphere, and they did it well in this game. The graphical style is also very interesting; it draws a lot from A Link to the Past, though with some improvements and a bit of a painting-like layer added to it, while also using some updated and new sprites, as well as several new effects, such as cel-shaded explosions and fires with Wind Waker sound effects mixed in with old-school effects. They blend fairly well for the most part, though sometimes an old-school effect might sound a bit jarring in comparison. Still, it's a really neat blend of styles, quite pleasant to look at and listen to, and I like what they did with it.

 

Speaking of A Link to the Past, the graphics aren't the only similarities to the legendary game. Four Swords Adventures includes several references to it, such as music, characters, and themes. The soldier enemy returns (in droves), with a much-updated and actually difficult ball-and-chain soldier. Lots of other A Link to the Past enemies appear. Ganon resembles how he did in the SNES classic, trident and all. It's actually interesting to note that the story of Four Swords Adventures was vastly different in development, and that text dumps even mention the Master Sword and Link's inability to obtain it. Supposedly, Four Swords Adventures would have been meant to tell the story of the Imprisoning War mentioned in A Link to the Past's backstory, before this was changed at some point in development. With Four Swords Adventures not even taking place on the same timeline as A Link to the Past, it's safe to assume the two stories are unrelated. Still, the references are pretty astounding, and it's interesting to wonder whether it can instead be considered that timeline's version of A Link to the Past. Ya know, if they still had the "three timeline" story back when they made this game.

 

One other "reference" is the return of the Dark World... in name only. There's a "Dark World" in the game, but it's not the Dark World from A Link to the Past. It's merely some sort of parallel dimension that interacts with the main world. Okay, so that's a lot like the other Dark World, but this one retains the same appearance. It's also limited to one screen, which also appears on your GBA, and it does open up a couple of neat interfaces, such as navigating areas to solve puzzles or fighting enemies across the two worlds. Later on, you can even go to the Dark World and drag one of the Links in the Light World to a place they can't access before to solve puzzles. Lots of neat ideas, though again, like the GBA idea in general, it feels like they could have done a little bit more with this. Maybe a sequel with modern technology and fewer limitations?

 

The Dark World has plot relevance as an evil alternate realm, though again unrelated to the Dark World of A Link to the Past despite the somewhat similarities. It can only be accessed through certain portals, or you create them by finding Moon Pearls, which suddenly now have a completely different usage: To open the portals, which you can sense with the Four Sword by looking for patches of ground that sparkle when you get nearby. It's apparently related to a Dark Mirror, which an evil tribe was sealed in long ago. It's also where the Shadow Links come from. Speaking of these, they appear often, usually just as a minor obstacle that, if you kill fast enough, drop 100 Force Gems. Sometimes they're there as a must-kill-to-progress miniboss, or will constantly spawn Big Bombs that will kill you instantly unless you're in your GBA. You navigate these screens to survive. These are neat obstacles, but feel a little overused in the end.

 

One complaint I had about Four Swords was that there were never any real puzzle opportunities with the swapping items feature, since if you saw an item, you knew you had to use it. Four Swords Adventures does manage to switch that up a little, making you pick your items a bit more wisely. It isn't perfect, but at least that system was improved a little bit.

 

So yeah. I managed to touch on this one a lot, more than I expected. I guess it's because it did a lot of neat things, and to be honest, I really liked it. It manages to feel lengthy and challenging, and has lots of neat puzzles and areas and dungeons. Not the best dungeons in the series, but enjoyable ones. It also doesn't bombard you with story, and has a nice balance that doesn't interrupt your gameplay annoyingly. That, and all messages can be scrolled through quickly, so you're not waiting around for text to load. Four Swords Adventures, despite its vastly different design, does a ton of things right. I actually enjoy it more than a few of the games I've played through since starting this series. It's not one I'd be quick to replay, but then, with nearly every Zelda game I prefer to wait a while between playthroughs anyway. Call me insane, but Four Swords Adventures is a pretty enjoyable game. And like most Zelda games since Ocarina of Time, it even ends in a lovely credits sequence that shows how everyone celebrates Link's victory or how the world's healing afterward. Not the best one in the series, but just tack that on as another reason to love the series.

 

So yeah, that's Four Swords Adventures, a surprisingly fun game. I enjoy it highly. But, as I mentioned in my Four Swords chronicle, is it enough to justify the original Four Swords being canon rather than a spin-off game? Well... on its own, I unfortunately would have to say no. The plot's pretty standalone, and when you look at its placement now (on the Child Timeline after Twilight Princess), it doesn't really add much. Sure, it brings back Ganon and an opportunity for his return and escape, and there's a lot of potential links between Four Swords Adventure's Dark Mirror and Twilight Princess' Mirror of Twilight, which I won't be getting into in this thread at all since that's not the purpose of this thread, but it kind of stands as an odd one out, not as much as Four Swords, but still. The Minish Cap will be the final decider of whether Four Swords deserved to be a canon game. Fortunately, that's the next game, so I will be able to revisit this shortly. But despite all this, Four Swords Adventures is a game I enjoy immensely, and would play again, and would recommend.

I'm going back a bit to say one thing... YOU WROTE TOO MUCH!

 

In all honest, this is a really good statement of the game. I would never write something this long, mainly because I don't have the patience. 

[The Satellite]

Well I'm more than aware I wrote... quite a bit for FSA, more than I ever thought I would. Thankfully I think I managed to scale it back for The Minish Cap; honestly I think I've just been slowly writing more and more for each game and I don't know whether that's a good or bad thing. Maybe bad, because then people might be less willing to read these chronicles, so I'll do my best to keep it... well, not too long, though a lot of things may need to be said on certain entries.

 

I love writing though, so I don't mind writing a lot. That is, when it's on a subject I care about. School papers? They can get the hell out of here. So I'm okay with writing that much. The question is whether people want to read that much, so I'm gonna do my best to scale back as much as possible.

[kurt91]

I personally don't have a problem with the length. I like reading peoples opinions on things I like and have an opinion of myself. I just keep losing track of how much I write and end up surprised when I see the actual length of my posts.

[Nicholas Steel]

I personally don't have a problem with the length. I like reading peoples opinions on things I like and have an opinion of myself.

Same here, not really fussed at the length of your posts TS.

[The Satellite]

Good to know. Now I'll write 20,000-word essays from here on out.

 

Nah, but I guess I'll not scale back too much, then. Thanks for the input.