1324 replies to this topic

[Xenix]

I agree with Aevin. I think it is WAAAY too early to be thinking of a tier list. This is just like with Project M. People just need to let a game evolve before judging how the characters work and deal with each other.

[Ventus]

Thats silly that they doing that so early *rolls eyes* I never understood why people list characters of Smash in a dumb tier list any of the characters can be good. This is also the reason I really dislike when people make games so competitive where its not even enjoyable anymore. :\

[strike]

Yeah, it's really stupid that there's already a tier list. Really?? The game isn't even out yet!

 

Saying that competitive play takes the fun out of the game isn't true for everyone. I have a blast playing just for fun and in tournaments.

 

Also, I don't see what's so bad about a Project M tier list. The game has a fairly developed metagame by now.

 

-Strike

[Shane]

Why not play the characters you love?

Aevin, I think you're one of the only people on this planet that understand the true meaning of Smash Bros.

My family or friends aren't really all that good with Smash so I don't need to play competitively, since I just don't like that stuff. I just want to pick my favorite Nintendo characters and play the game with friends and family and have a good time.

[Aevin]

Hmm ...  I wonder which character you would play in the upcoming Smash games, Charizard ...

[LinktheMaster]

Honestly, I agree with Saffith.  I think part of the reason Nintendo did such a big focus on SSB this E3 was to try to help get it to be as good as possible.  They had a whole tournament in it, they put it out there for people to play at Best Buy, they had a bunch of booths to play the game.  Nintendo isn't dumb.  They know that, while the majority of people out there just play it as a little fun with friends, there's a good amount of people who play it competitively (sometimes for money).  Nintendo wants to do their best to get it to be as balanced as possible, and sometimes stuff like this is good feedback for them.

 

Going back to what Aevin said - play the character you want to play based off of what series you enjoy.  But, do you really want your character to be gimped from the start, or do you want them to be on the same playing level as all the rest of the characters?   Do we really want any of those characters that are super easy for people to just spam kill everyone when you're playing with friends (I'm looking at you, Pit).

[strike]

I play as the character I love! Peach. Competitive players are not heartless people. Amsa one of the best players in the world plays just for fun along with Isai the best player at smash 64. I don't get why people think the competitive scene is so heartless! Have any you interacted with any of these people??? Smash people are really fun in my experience. Considering 99% of "competitive" players make no money off of it, I'm pretty sure they enjoy it a lot. It's frustrating having people talk about communities they know virtually nothing about. :/

 

-Strike

[Aevin]

I agree the information can be valuable to Nintendo, but I don't believe the competitive players are making it for that purpose. They're not going, "Let's get this info to NIntendo so they can balance the game better," they're going, "Wow! Kirby's high tier! I guess I can play him!"

 

I've played Smash casually, quite competitively with friends, and in a few tournaments. Not everyone is competitive to the point of excluding all else, but there are people who take it so seriously they don't even seem to enjoy it any more.

 

If anything, I tend to like my characters in the mid or low tier, so that when I win people don't just blame it on the character's ranking. Also, I like playing underplayed characters, and people do seem less likely to choose them if they're placed lower. (Although sometimes that could be subconscious).

[strike]

Actually most competitive players are under the assumption that Nintendo hosted the tournament to balance the game (probably not true, but what they think). So yeah... I'm going to bed. zzzzzz

 

-Strike

 

P.S: And most competitive players are DYING to give suggestions to Nintendo about how to balance it. Arggrgrggg

 

P.P.S: I'm way to tired to be posting

Edited by strike, 15 June 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[nicklegends]

Sakurai already said that they have a 12-person team responsible for all the balancing in the game. I think Nintendo's interest in holding the tournament and the play stations was simply to promote the game and generate hype in general.

[Xenix]

I'm going to try to cover points as best as I can. Hope I don't come across the wrong way or anything.
I play competitive, but I still have fun in the game. To me, both casual AND competitive are fun. I play casual with my friends all the time. Items on, special statuses, you name it. But when I want to get competitive, I am still having fun. I enjoy the thrill of facing an opponent who knows the game just as well, if not better, than I do. Also, there are many of us who don't pick a character to main because of tier lists. People who aren't part of the competitive community seem to think that all we care about are wavedashing, l-canceling, tiers, and other things. I would like to make a point in saying that these are completely irrelevant when playing competitive. These things are merely optional. In fact, I have a history of maining low to mid-tier characters because I like them. I mained Roy in Melee and Link in Smash 64 (and Brawl). I play Marth in Melee now, but it isn't because of his tier. It is because I actually LIKE how he plays. I like how his moveset feels. It just flows well with me. There hasn't been a single Smash game where I have mained the top character. In fact, my Melee Fox is absolute garbage compared to the rest of my crew.

I can tell you what we DO care about though: a deep flowing control system without a skill ceiling.
Let me sum up what I mean.
Let's say you have a pool. It has a flat bottom and is 3 feet deep all the way across. Sure, you can swim in it, you can splash around just like the rest of the people who use it, but what if you want to go further? You can't dive in a 3 foot pool. This shallow pool is how Brawl ended up. That is why it receives so little attention in the competitive community. Sure, it has it's fair share of deep gameplay, but unlike the games that came before it, there is an absolute limit to how far you can push it before you can no longer improve.

Now, let's discuss something that has been in discussion throughout the community for ages: Skill gaps.
Skill gaps exist in EVERY game where you and a friend can go head to head. This is a looming fact that exists regardless of how you play. Let's revisit the pool analogy once again. This time, let's say you have a normal pool that has a slanted bottom and goes to 12 ft. Sure, not everyone can use that deep end right away. Sure, not everyone will WANT to use it. But it is there for those who DO. It is because of that deep end that things like diving and other deep-water activities can even be done. And let's not forget that those who CAN use that deep end can always come play with the friends who can't use it. This means that it doesn't necessarily affect one person and not the other.
This is how Melee and Project M are. You can play it whatever way you like: casually or competitively. You can keep on improving and learning new things. The possibilities for new techniques are nearly infinite and the metagame is still growing to this day. Are you forced to learn the advanced stuff? Absolutely not. It is a choice YOU can decide for yourself. THIS is what competitive players like. A game that EVERYONE can enjoy regardless of the type of play or skill level.

As far as the fun aspect goes, yes, we do have fun. As a matter of fact, we have a thing in Melee called the Pokefloat Challenge. It's incredibly fun to try with friends. And that's not all. At a tournament, my partner and I went to doubles and used Pichu the entire time. We were laughing and having a great time. The word "fun" is a subjective term that is under the influence of opinions. It varies from person to person.

So if you ever hear someone discuss competitive play, don't assume they don't know how to have fun. I assure you, that is not true. And no, we're not all about fanciness like most people think we are. Now, I will admit, we do have our fair share of bad apples. I get annoyed with people who always post stuff like "Man, Brawl sucks." on a competitive Brawl match. I believe everyone has a right to like whatever they want. Okay, rant over.

[NoeL]

Sad to see Little Mac at the bottom (despite it being a preliminary). He looks like a lot of fun.

[Aevin]

We'll see how Mac is rated when some more time passes. That KO punch charges WAAAAY faster than I'm comfortable with ...

[Espilan]

The one thing I dislike about competitive players is how some (not all) of them seem to read too far into things and then those same players think they can tell other people which characters are good and which ones are crap. I personally dislike the concept of player-determined tier lists for the same reasons, and honestly kind of cringed the moment I saw any such thing come up in this thread, as inevitable as it was.

 

This isn't even SSB-exclusive, it's just...in general. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, Elsword, Pokémon. I don't care if it's high tier or low tier or whatever, if I want to...let's say play Jigglypuff and be a complete idiot with Rollout shenanigans shooting myself off the stage by accident half the time, then that's exactly what I'm going to do you can't stop me don't even try.

 

 

 

I'll probably stick to the For Fun mode if I play online after this is released.

[Xenix]

The one thing I dislike about competitive players is how some (not all) of them seem to read too far into things and then those same players think they can tell other people which characters are good and which ones are crap. I personally dislike the concept of player-determined tier lists for the same reasons, and honestly kind of cringed the moment I saw any such thing come up in this thread, as inevitable as it was.

 

This isn't even SSB-exclusive, it's just...in general. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, Elsword, Pokémon. I don't care if it's high tier or low tier or whatever, if I want to...let's say play Jigglypuff and be a complete idiot with Rollout shenanigans shooting myself off the stage by accident half the time, then that's exactly what I'm going to do you can't stop me don't even try.

 

 

 

I'll probably stick to the For Fun mode if I play online after this is released.

This is part of what I made a point of in my last post. I completely agree with you on this.