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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild


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#496 MarinaraSauce

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 05:47 AM

2.  Nerf the restoratives.  Potions restore 3 hearts, fairies restore 5 hearts.  If a fairy is used for revival, they only revive Link with a full heart (or even just a quarter heart) to really invoke that "this is your last chance" feeling.

 

No, actually, this sounds God-awful.  If you make these items this shitty then there would be no incentive to pick them up.  Bear in mind, when you use a potion in a 3D Zelda game, it's probably during a boss whose pattern you haven't quite got down yet.  If these items are borderline worthless, they're not going to help you live that much longer, meaning you probably won't be able to figure out how the boss works.  Then the game becomes this Impossible Quiz-esque "waste your time getting back to the boss repeatedly until you figure out what to do through trial and error".  I'll reiterate what's been said; if you don't like restoratives, don't play with them, but just because you don't like them doesn't mean they need to be nerfed.  Zelda isn't a competitive game, If a strategy makes the game easier, that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be removed.


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#497 Haylee

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:13 AM

2.  Nerf the restoratives.  Potions restore 3 hearts, fairies restore 5 hearts.  If a fairy is used for revival, they only revive Link with a full heart (or even just a quarter heart) to really invoke that "this is your last chance" feeling.

 

For one, why would fairies heal more than a potion? That makes potions entirely pointless, especially considering it's generally easier to get a fairy than a potion.

 

Secondly, the potions would virtually be worthless. Usually in a Zelda game you have like what, 4 or 5 bottles? That would mean you would need 5 potions to even come close to healing all the way, when you could just break some grass for some hearts, and with how the game is presented so far, getting hearts seems like a really simple process. If anything, at the least, Potions should be able to heal about as much as Lon Lon Milk can heal in OoT, which was roughly 8 hearts. It's fair, doesn't feel like a cop out, and it doesn't permanently save you from danger, but is way more likely to.


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#498 Shane

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:18 AM

How about what they did in Skyward Sword where Link was open for attack while he was drinking his potion which gave you a lot of your health back? I like that approach more than just giving Link a few hearts gradually. That, and why even have an auto revive at one heart? I would rather just get a game over and continue with more health. This isn't Dark Souls, it's the Legend of Zelda so I'm not sure where you expected Zelda to become brutally challenging. Zelda 1 was cryptic with a difficulty spike caused by arguably a mistake and Zelda 2 had a lot of unfair moments with a overly punishing continue point. I would rather have smarter enemies than nerfed and cheap refills that feel like a waste of rupees.

 

If anything though, they should revamp and improve the Hero Mode formula. Like potions, it's optional and could really work if players truly want an extreme challenge.


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#499 Koh

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:39 AM

No, actually, this sounds God-awful.  If you make these items this shitty then there would be no incentive to pick them up.  Bear in mind, when you use a potion in a 3D Zelda game, it's probably during a boss whose pattern you haven't quite got down yet.  If these items are borderline worthless, they're not going to help you live that much longer, meaning you probably won't be able to figure out how the boss works.  Then the game becomes this Impossible Quiz-esque "waste your time getting back to the boss repeatedly until you figure out what to do through trial and error".  I'll reiterate what's been said; if you don't like restoratives, don't play with them, but just because you don't like them doesn't mean they need to be nerfed.  Zelda isn't a competitive game, If a strategy makes the game easier, that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be removed.

No that's not how the game would become.  The potions and fairies could restore more, but as they are the game is unbalanced.  The inverse of your proposal is also true:  If everything is barely damaging you, what's the point of even having full restoratives in the first place?  If the enemies are smarter and damage you more, the restoratives needn't be nerfed in how much they heal, but they would still need to be balanced some other way, like healing over time instead of all at once.

 

 

For one, why would fairies heal more than a potion? That makes potions entirely pointless, especially considering it's generally easier to get a fairy than a potion.

 

Secondly, the potions would virtually be worthless. Usually in a Zelda game you have like what, 4 or 5 bottles? That would mean you would need 5 potions to even come close to healing all the way, when you could just break some grass for some hearts, and with how the game is presented so far, getting hearts seems like a really simple process. If anything, at the least, Potions should be able to heal about as much as Lon Lon Milk can heal in OoT, which was roughly 8 hearts. It's fair, doesn't feel like a cop out, and it doesn't permanently save you from danger, but is way more likely to.

Point taken on the first.  I was just thinking of the Fairies as the magic side, so it'd be more potent than a potion, but since their main purpose is for revival, then I guess they should heal less.  I can accept that.  But then they should still revive you with a small percentage of health, because unlike game overing, you continue right on the spot without having to restart any fights or whatever.  This is why this revival needs balancing.

 

 

How about what they did in Skyward Sword where Link was open for attack while he was drinking his potion which gave you a lot of your health back? I like that approach more than just giving Link a few hearts gradually. That, and why even have an auto revive at one heart? I would rather just get a game over and continue with more health. This isn't Dark Souls, it's the Legend of Zelda so I'm not sure where you expected Zelda to become brutally challenging. Zelda 1 was cryptic with a difficulty spike caused by arguably a mistake and Zelda 2 had a lot of unfair moments with a overly punishing continue point. I would rather have smarter enemies than nerfed and cheap refills that feel like a waste of rupees.

 

If anything though, they should revamp and improve the Hero Mode formula. Like potions, it's optional and could really work if players truly want an extreme challenge.

None of these changes, or proposed adjustments to the changes would make any of the games that much harder.  You're never in any danger in them as they are now, whether you have potions or not.  This is all purely to balance that out, to make the restoratives actually worth getting and buying, since they could actually save you, rather than being "Why do I even need this?," while at the same time, making them non game-breakers.

 

Dark Souls is more like, nearly everything can kill you in one or two hits.  That's not what I'm proposing at all.  I'm proposing that they actually be a threat to the player, rather than being largely just useless minor inconveniences that you ignore, even the bosses.  Otherwise, they lose their purpose for being if they're negligible, which is a big no no.  Both entities are supposed to steadily do more damage and get more difficult as the player gets further in the game.  You shouldn't be 70% done with the game and still only taking less than about 15% damage.  That's totally outrageous.


Edited by Koh, 10 May 2016 - 07:50 AM.


#500 Nicholas Steel

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 07:59 AM

Even if you don't grab the potions and fairies, you're still not in any danger.  I just think the games in general should be balanced with those items they have in mind, instead of everything scratching Link for baby damage and the player just shrugging any hits taken off.  Let them retain their usefulness, but not have them so OP compared to everything else.  This can all be alleviated with three adjustments.

 

1.  Increase the enemy damage more noticeably for stronger enemies.  Enemies halfway through the game shouldn't just be hitting for a heart or less; by that point, you can reasonably expect a normal player to have about half the max hearts, so things should be doing between 1.5 and 3 hearts.

 

2.  Nerf the restoratives.  Potions restore 3 hearts, fairies restore 5 hearts.  If a fairy is used for revival, they only revive Link with a full heart (or even just a quarter heart) to really invoke that "this is your last chance" feeling.

 

3.  Make the restoratives heal their amount over an interval, instead of all at once.  So the use of a potion or fairy for healing would see their restored amounts coming over the course of X amount of seconds, a quarter at a time.  This would prevent players from simply stocking up on either and face tanking everything, since they wouldn't heal fast enough to allow that to happen.

Because potions aren't automatic they should by default heal more or be more effective than a fairy. I'd have it so:

 

Potion restores 5 Hearts over time (4 or 5 seconds?)

Fairy restores 3 hearts when used as auto recovery & restores 3 instantly when consumed without dying


Edited by Nicholas Steel, 10 May 2016 - 08:01 AM.

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#501 Koh

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 08:15 AM

Because potions aren't automatic they should by default heal more or be more effective than a fairy. I'd have it so:

 

Potion restores 5 Hearts over time (4 or 5 seconds?)

Fairy restores 3 hearts when used as auto recovery & restores 3 instantly when consumed without dying

That sounds fair; I realize my error in potions versus fairies.  I was thinking too much on the magical aspect of the latter, but I get that they're basically just the Pheonix Downs.

 

I just want the games to have a steady and consistent challenge, instead of literally getting easier as you progress.  That's the inverse of proper game balance.


Edited by Koh, 10 May 2016 - 08:15 AM.


#502 kurt91

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Posted 10 May 2016 - 11:22 PM

To be honest, that sounds kind of like Fallout with that mod that turns Stimpaks into heal-over-time items. I wonder how a Cripple system would play out in a Zelda game, where taking damage to different body parts would affect Link differently. Wounded arms mean slower or weaker attacks. Wounded legs reduce your movement speed. A wounded torso would cause you to take increased damage from subsequent attacks, and a head wound would make it more difficult to aim things like the Bow.

 

Now I wonder how difficult it would be to set up Skyrim in third-person to play similarly to a Zelda game. Doubt I'd ever get it identical, but I could possibly get movement close...



#503 The Satellite

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:45 PM

Just four days. My body is ready.


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#504 Eddy

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:47 AM

Just four days. My body is ready.

 

So am I:

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#505 Cukeman

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 02:12 PM

I heard they won't be revealing the NX, so does that mean we'll only learn about the WiiU version?



#506 The Satellite

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 04:41 PM

Correct.



#507 thepsynergist

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:06 PM

What if in the next Zelda game, Link could use magic.  Either with staves or with "ancient Hylian spells."  This way, Magic Power would actually be used to cast spells, like healing magic, or a fireball.  The game could even be balanced for it, so healing magic wouldn't feel overpowered.


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#508 The Satellite

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:07 PM

So basically a better Zelda 2 magic system.

 

Although I'd just be content with magic items and abilities ala ALttP/OoT.



#509 Koh

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 05:22 PM

What if in the next Zelda game, Link could use magic.  Either with staves or with "ancient Hylian spells."  This way, Magic Power would actually be used to cast spells, like healing magic, or a fireball.  The game could even be balanced for it, so healing magic wouldn't feel overpowered.

I'd love to see more stuff like this that'd add more staples to the Zelda universe, and builds off the existing mechanics, instead of random one-off stuff that doesn't even add extra depth to the game like the spinning top or double hookshot thing from TP.  Stuff that permanently affects the way the entire game plays from that point on, like the Roc's Items, instead of just "keys" for one room or whatever.


Edited by Koh, 12 June 2016 - 05:23 PM.


#510 The Satellite

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 08:21 PM

I'll look for a larger version but new artwork courtesy of Facebook page.




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