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Zodiac, Story of the Guardian


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#481 C-Dawg

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:27 AM

Yeah, I think the enemies are an upgrade, but they're not meant to be as flashy as the bosses.  I'm mostly concerned about balance issues and, as you say, spawning sometimes is a little odd.

 

 

ETA: So swapping 443 (first demo w/custom enemies) in place of 441 screwed up my Sidearm upgrades. I started a separate gamesave on 445, and got as far as the explosives. Can I swap 449 in place of 445 and resume, or am I going to need to start fresh gamesaves on each subsequent demo as you add new enemies?

 

Probably can't keep porting over because of the way global variables get screwed up.  Here's what I could do, though.  I could change the code so that the Sidearm functions entirely with Game Counters and abandons the global variables entirely.  If I do that, you MIGHT be better able to swap between games.


Edited by C-Dawg, 07 March 2015 - 11:28 AM.


#482 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:16 PM

If you can fix the Sidearm levels without messing anything else up, and swapping qst files doesn't screw them up, and you aren't going to be making any other major changes that frequently require starting new saves, then go ahead. Otherwise, I can live with forced restart on subsequent demos.

The latter means I'll probably continue as now - playing the earlier demo all the way to the end, posting bugs that may or may not have already been fixed since then, while playing the new ones up until the end of the changes you've made, and then when I finish the earlier one, kill it and resume the most recent demo, play to the end.

It's a pain to have to spend most of the time replaying the earlier parts of the game, and means more time focused looking for bugs there rather than towards the end, but eventually... you should have all the bugs in the earlier areas cleaned up, at which point... I can just rapidly noclip through the earlier parts to catch up to where the progress is happening. It makes for really uncompelling gameplay, but oh well. It's faster than completely playing through all of it over again.

By the way, I've been actively looking for ways to exploit the autojump (pressing/holding L after falling w/out jumping) +bottomrowjump bug (so you automatically hop off the bottom row) and so far, the couple of spots I found where you could exploit it were so trivial that I already have forgotten them. You can use it to reach the bottom-right ledge in Libra 2C easily, but I think you can make that jump anyways if timed right - it just spares you the frustration of missing it multiple times and going back around to retry. All it gains is some minor upgrade, and the other spots I was able to exploit it, I think just worked as short cuts without adding access to anything otherwise inaccessible.

So basically, I'm saying I've been trying to exploit it but it seems harmless, so far. I couldn't use it to bypass the Missile Launcher boss (left ledge in Aquarius 6D is still too far left to reach doing this in 5D) nor could I reach the door in Gemini 13 w/out DJBs (you just barely miss the bottom block trying.) I can't chain them - it only works the first time - so I can't exploit it to repeatedly jump along the bottom of the screen. Perhaps solaireflaire should fuck around with it and see if he can find some place to exploit it.

The handling in tight spots is fine - it is only a little trickier than before, and leads to more misjumps and cursing, but not nearly as bad as I initially thought it would be when I bitched up a storm about it. Without the wallglitch bug, there are a number of spots where you could previously cheaply bypass tricky jumps across several screens (in Leo and Taurus, probably elsewhere) where that is no longer an option. So all around, a great tradeoff.

Looking forward to killing your new enemies momentarily.

Demo 449

Aquarius 6E: This also has a flower enemy which sometimes spawns offscreen and can be heard firing.

Custom enemies: If they walk, suggest coding them to detect when they're standing on a one-tile block between walls/edges, and override their turnaround behavior so they simply face the player, rather than rapidly changing direction back and forth.
ETA: Actually, now that I think about it, I'd simply suggest you edit the spawning code so it avoids spawning enemies on the top/bottom rows and left/right columns. That would fix the 3-way-hat-on-bottom bug, as well as prevent enemies unfairly spawning directly on top of you when you enter a room. Perhaps the 2nd-from-bottom row should be off-limits, too, for when you're jumping up into a room. Their movement of course doesn't need to be restricted from those rows/columns, just their spawn locations.

Scorpio 21: 3-way hat enemies spawn on the tile above bottom-half tile rocks/cactii, leaving a gap between them, so they appear to float. And they're still spawning on the bottom row.

Scorpio: Suggest cactus enemies reverse direction when you jump over them, instead of continuing away from you.

Scorpio 65: The cave door exit drops you midair next to the door instead of on the ground.

Aquarius 71: The cave door exit warps you inside the bottom half-tile next to the door, forcing you to jump out. Purely cosmetic.

Aquarius 54: The water layer doesn't extend to the far left/right columns, so the boss sticks out of it on the sides.

Aries 60: The cutscene room with Dr. Mo does not have gravity. The Labyrinth and Boss Fight rooms do have gravity.

Aries 71: The flier is kind of pointless in here, since with all the tall narrow gaps, all it does is fly up/down two tiles.

Aries 20: F6 trap beneath the door, if you come up here before getting High Jump.

Cancer 47: This enemy spawns its little enemies quite far from where it is located. It was near the right side at one point, and I was standing on the left edge of the room, and it spawned one directly above me.

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 07 March 2015 - 09:13 PM.


#483 Air Luigi

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:07 PM

Whoa! I downloaded the latest build and man... the faster bullets and custom enemies makes a big difference! Fighting feels amazing now. Great work! I can't wait to see a final beta ^.^


Edited by Air Luigi, 07 March 2015 - 11:20 PM.

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#484 Air Luigi

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 09:45 PM

I modified the quest in Zquest, to see how the game feels without the scrolling between screens.... And it's perfect this way! Now I can't imagine this with scrolling xd It's much smoother, pleasant and fun. I hope you put it as the default option, or at least as a option. I had to force me to stop playing, it's so addictive now. Faster bullets + custom enemies + no scrolling -> blast. I though that I was playing Cave Story at times xD

My mind will blow when I see this with the final music and cutscenes.


Edited by Air Luigi, 08 March 2015 - 09:46 PM.


#485 C-Dawg

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:15 AM

Thanks, Air!  The new enemies are taking a ton of time to crank out and implement.  The way I set them up, I can code like 2 - 3 new enemies a day, but that still means I populate only one section of the game each day.  And there's a LOT of sections to cover.

 

Regarding scrolling, it sounds like Gleeok is going to help me fix that issue by finding a way to crank up the scrolling speed in the next ZC build.

 

Uploaded new version with new enemies up through first visit to Pisces, and fixed all bugs back on this page and the last except for one of NSS's posts.  Also did not fix these yet, due to time or uncertainty:

 

 


Scorpio 23: Cave room warp exit on top of half-tile cactus near right side. F6 trap.
Scorpio 20: Cactus enemy. Potential, but lame as-is. 
Aquarius 6C: This room either spawns one or two flower enemies onscreen. If it only spawns one (onscreen) and I kill it, I can here the other one intermittently firing afterwards.
Taurus 15: This still has enemies that spawn above the top row, don't attack, can only be shot with Ship Bomb, and die off after awhile.
Some of the ships that scroll down the sides occasionally disappear for no apparent reason, partway down the screen.
The enemy with two options circling it - I killed one, and one of the options remained, stationary onscreen, until it disappeared a while later.
The boss still explodes into alphanumerics.
RE: Charge Weapons and Grappling

Edited by C-Dawg, 09 March 2015 - 12:16 AM.

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#486 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:26 AM

C-Dawg, on 09 Mar 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:
Regarding scrolling, it sounds like Gleeok is going to help me fix that issue by finding a way to crank up the scrolling speed in the next ZC build.

That is great news! Honestly, with scrolling off, it massively improves gameplay, but introduces other frustrations I already mentioned. Speeding up the room scrolls to maybe 3x to 5x their current speed would resolve the former's issues without introducing the latter's, so that solution is ideal. You'll still have to cope with up/down/up scrolls sometimes, but they shouldn't be nearly as painful.
ETA: But please, for the love of all that is sacred, get them to do the same with the subscreen scrolling...

Edited by newstarshipsmell, 09 March 2015 - 01:35 AM.


#487 C-Dawg

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 11:07 AM

Really?  Do you find yourself swapping stuff around in the subscreen all the time?  I really hadn't noticed that.  Particularly with the new custom enemies not really caring what kind of weapon you use, you think that there would be less need for subscreen fixes...?

 

Oh, which reminds me, I still need to get the freeze ray working with the new enemies.  Bleh.  I think I'll make it work like in Super Metroid, where you have to wear them down first before they'll freeze.



#488 newstarshipsmell

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:26 PM

Really?  Do you find yourself swapping stuff around in the subscreen all the time?  I really hadn't noticed that.  Particularly with the new custom enemies not really caring what kind of weapon you use, you think that there would be less need for subscreen fixes...?

Not so much in this quest - but it would be useful in general for ZC, and I'm mildly surprised they haven't sped it up by now. It's just really annoying to put up with it scrolling at the original NES TLOZ's speed, when there's no need to keep it that way, really. Options for quick scrolling or instantaneous switches would make sense.

Demo 451

Aquarius 5D/4A/34: Suggest adding grass above the bottom row, bottom-half tile platforms. They're completely hidden with scrolling turned off, and somewhat hidden otherwise.

Aquarius 7B/7C: Spawning code is messed up in these two rooms. All three enemies always spawn on top of each other, and in the same location (sometimes midair, sometimes inside blocks) when I leave/re-enter, but the location changes if I travel farther away and return.

#489 Air Luigi

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 01:37 PM

What are exactly the issues with no-scrolling? I didn't read all the messages in the previous pages >.> I don't see any problem with it, i found intuitive to jump to see the upper screen without any delay.

About a special ZC edition, the issue that I see with that, it is that people is lazy to download specific versions of ZC (I know this because I have a webpage with a ZC section). I don't mind, of course. But i'm not sure if it worth the effort just for the scrolling. Lost Isle received a special ZC build in 2007, but the quest had a ton of features that were only possible in that build. Maybe you could release the quest in 2.5 without scrolling, and in a special build with custom fast scrolling... I recommend to have at least a version of the game for the official 2.5. But I will be happy in any case, I love this game so much.



#490 C-Dawg

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 02:11 PM

Air, the issue is that if you can't see the room scrolling, it's possible to bump your head and fall down without seeing the layout above indicating where you should jump.  I've fixed a lot of this issue by just redesigning the room, but it's still a real thing.  It makes vertical passages harder to traverse unless you've been through it before.

 

When I'm finally done, the goal here is to have a big ol' zip file with a shortcut that is the game icon and some subfolders for data, music, and the manual.  The data folder would contain ZClassic and the quest file.  The shortcut will, ideally, load up ZClassic with some blank save files for Zodiac already present.  That should make it extremely user friendly.



#491 Legen Dary

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 02:56 PM

Ok, let's ask the dumb question:

 

Is it possible to make something like THIS?



#492 C-Dawg

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:02 PM

Possible?  Sure.  You just make the entire game using DrawTile functions and use the ZQuest Map data as a data structure instead of as the actual playing field.

 

Feasible?  Not really.

 

I mean, it's more feasible here than in most Quests, actually, but that doesn't make it easy.  Given certain starting conditions, I'm already doing so much custom work that that making this kind of thing function could be accomplished by having every FFC that is a shot or enemy have a "CheckIfTheScreenMoved" function that nudges the item here or there as you scroll.  That part isn't a big deal. 

 

What WOULD be a big deal is that I'd have to totally re-code everything that involves moving the player.  Re-code the canMove function to check for solidity.  Change how state carryovers are implemented.  Replace every secret flag with some other script-based solution.  And, worst, completely and totally re-vamp the way that FFC scripts are set up to function in the game.  That includes custom enemies.  Right now, the screen is used to store certain FFCs that run on that screen.  Move to a screen, start running certain code.  If I didn't use the screens anymore, then how would I load FFCs?  Uh... I guess you could, like, see what screen you're on using direct warps to load them, but then you'd get screwed up behavior from functions that check for screen transitions and... ugh.

 

I do not have plans to embark on this epic boondoggle.  If I wanted to revamp things this heavily, I'd just make a new game without an existing engine to support it.  I plan to pick up Allegro and try something there after Zodiac is finally done.


Edited by C-Dawg, 09 March 2015 - 03:10 PM.

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#493 Legen Dary

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:26 PM

That was a pretty elaborate answer, thank you =)



#494 Air Luigi

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:35 PM

About the subscreen, you can use scripting to enable L/R buttons to switch quickly the weapons, even Ex1/Ex2 for the A button. I see that in another scripted quests.


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#495 ShadowTiger

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 05:25 PM

Sure is.


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