4847 replies to this topic

[Cukeman]

Guess I just play a lot of pause heavy games, so I don't even notice.

[Nicholas Steel]

I never minded the touch buttons in oot3d. I used them mainly for stuff like the lens, or boots, or any other "toggle" item. Stuff that actually requires a button press went on buttons (bow, hookshot, etc.). I actually liked it more than the original cause they fixed boots, and gave the ocarina its own button.

You're down 1 physical button in OoT 3DS, which is why a lot of people dislike the situation. Everyone agrees that making the Iron Boots a toggle and having a dedicated button for the Ocarina was an improvement, it just would've been nice to continue being able to assign 3 items to 3 physical buttons.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 27 December 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[Anthus]

You're down 1 physical button in OoT 3DS, which is why a lot of people dislike the situation. Everyone agrees that making the Iron Boots a toggle and having a dedicated button for the Ocarina was an improvement, it just would've been nice to continue being able to assign 3 items to 3 physical buttons.

 

That's true. I can see why they did that though, the original 3DS only had two shoulder buttons, and it makes more sense to have your shield be on R than having a 3rd item. Now, if it would have come out with the new 3DS in mind, like Majora's Mask 3D, I can see what you are saying and agree.

 

I finished Oracle of Ages, finally. The final boss was pretty lame, tbh, but I ultimately enjoyed the game for the most part. I remember being a kid, and always being moved by the part in the beginning where Veran says something like, "Dumbass, if you cut me, it's Nayru who dies!". I dunno why, but it seemed so serious, and dire. The writing is pretty decent, and I'm impressed with how much they can fit into such small text boxes.

 

Been playing OoS again. Remember how a few pages back I said I used a code generator to make a linked game code cause I never planned on playing Ages? Well, I completely and utterly lied, and cannot be trusted, ever. I still think I like Seasons more. I'm trying to think of why, and I think I just like the season changing gimmick more than the time travel gimmick. Seasons has not been done before, whereas the two previous console games had time travel extensively. Labrynna is kind of confusing to navigate at times, imo, especially the south western watery area. Some areas are completely different between the two periods, and while cool, makes the map confusing.

 

People also say, "OoA is more puzzle based, and OoS is more combat based" but I have to disagree. I think both games focus on combat, and puzzles, and both games have unique puzzles, and combat scenarios. I think the biggest differences between the two are the items you get, and the world altering gimmicks. I can't say that one focuses more on one design philosophy over the other, but I'm sure others disagree. I will say, I think OoA is actually a bit harder with the world navigation, and I found myself dying a handful of times here (but I play pretty recklessly, so there's that). I made it to level 4 in OoS without dying once yet. I think seasons is the bigger game as well, since it has a full 16x16 overworld, with up to four variations of each area, plus Subrosia! Labrynna is only 14x14, and only has two variations. Oh, and the underwater parts. I forgot about those.

 

edit: Oh, OoA does have those dumbass blocks you have to push with a certain color facing up. If those count as puzzles, then I can see why some may say OoA has more puzzles, but meh. I hate those blocks, btw.

[Cukeman]

Played 4 hours of Cuphead last night. I think it's this generation's DKC. Amazing new game animation style, great challenge, cool platformer, cute mascot and animal characters, similar-ish lives system. Perhaps a dash of Battletoads too, though so far it seems more forgiving maybe. One of the first bosses might be a Battletoads reference. Also, Mugman is a great Mega Man reference.

 

inb4 ''Contra''

Sure there's a comparison to be made to Contra, but I'm thinking in terms of impact. Contra didn't make us think "Wow, I've never seen visuals like this in a game!" That's why I compare it to DKC, amazing new visual style PLUS fun gameplay (and the other points I mentioned before).

Edited by Cukeman, 28 December 2017 - 03:31 PM.

[Anthus]

I've been keeping an eye on Cuphead, and outside of the animation, it looks like another shmup. I was interested, but after finding out it's essentially a boss rush with few actual levels, I decided to give it a pass. I'm not really a huge fan of "bosses" to begin with in general, and a whole game full of trial and error battles doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy. I'd watch someone play it though, it looks cool.

[Cukeman]

I do like the bosses, but I wouldn't call them "trial and error", they telegraph their attacks.

 

Can't say if there are more levels or bosses. I've only done a few of each.

Edited by Cukeman, 28 December 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[Nicholas Steel]

I do like the bosses, but I wouldn't call them "trial and error", they telegraph their attacks.

 

Can't say if there are more levels or bosses. I've only done a few of each.

Like with all bosses that telegraph their attacks, you won't know what the telegraph is telegraphing the first time you see that telegraph during your first fight with the boss/enemy.

[Cukeman]

??? I don't understand your point. With every enemy in every game ever, you have to go up against them to find out what they can do.

 

EDIT: I thought "trial and error" gaming meant stuff like instant deaths under certain floor tiles that look just like the others, where the only way to avoid them is memorization. That's different from attacks you can see coming.

Edited by Cukeman, 29 December 2017 - 03:14 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

??? I don't understand your point. With every enemy in every game ever, you have to go up against them to find out what they can do.

 

EDIT: I thought "trial and error" gaming meant stuff like instant deaths under certain floor tiles that look just like the others, where the only way to avoid them is memorization. That's different from attacks you can see coming.

Don't mind me, I'm just being facetious.

[Anthus]

Trial and error might sound harsh, but all I mean is, I'm just not a fan of run-n-gun bosses. I've seen a lot of videos, and it just looks like something that would frustrate me.

Still though, gotta give credit where credit is due; those guys made a visual masterpiece.

[Norzan]

I forgot how bad the battle against the koopaling Ludwig in Superstar Saga was. Like yeesh, it's godawful and easily one of the worst in the series.

 

 

^

 

And after a trip to the wiki, this battle is like this only in the remake. The battle in the original is just a standard battle. For some goddamn reason, they decided to change his whole battle to be like the Shrowser battle in Partners in Time, where you can't attack at all, there's no turns, and you have to hit the projectiles he fires at you with your hammer. Meanwhile a giant energy ball is starting to fall on you and you fail to push back the energy ball, you die. He also keeps firing projectiles at you while the energy ball is falling. I hate this change, this is easily the change i hate the most in this remake.

Edited by Norzan, 29 December 2017 - 11:02 PM.

[Anthus]

I'm about halfway though Oracle of Seasons now. I took a little break cause I was starting to get burned out on it since I started playing right after finishing Ages.

 

I'm not going to go into too much detail yet, but I think I'm more accurately able to say why these games have been so low on my personal list. Firstly, they are not bad games by any means. I just think that a lot of other Zelda games are better, or more streamlined, or just more fun to play. Besides the annoying inventory, I have to say I'm in general not really a fan of the dungeon design in these games. Most of the dungeons like using those dumb ass mine carts, which I have always hated, and most of the dungeons just feel very similar. They have different music, and slightly different graphics, but the stuff you are doing in the dungeons don't really change. And, when they do try a new gimmick, I often find it to be annoying, and not really helping the dungeon. These include the water in Jabu-Jabu's belly, or those red/ blue turn styles that make you navigate the same set of rooms a million times if you mess up. There's another instance of annoying design in Level 4 in Seasons. There is a key you must get by lighting torches from a mine cart. Now, this is fine in itself, but the problem is, you pass this room right before the midway boss. Later, when you get the slingshot, you have to actually backtrack from the beginning of the dungeon, since the mine cart resets its position, leaving you stuck in the room before the midway boss. Thankfully it was easy enough to do, but it made me want to put the game down.

 

The overworlds. Oh boy, where to even start? I don't think I've ever felt this ambivalent towards a set of games. I find the world design in both of these games to be really confusing. But, I also really like exploring them? I think the worlds are a little too big. I love exploring an area for the first time, and finding stuff, but each time you have to go through it again, or go back because you missed a plot item, it wears a little more thin. The Gale seeds are a cool idea, but the warp points are too far and few between, in both games. I still like season's world more, but both Labrynna and Holodrum can be quite confusing, and annoying to navigate at times. I have looked at a map several times, since the in game map is basically useless, and there are 256 screens in Seasons.

 

Honestly, I'd put up with all of this a lot more if the inventory management wasn't so agonizingly pace breaking, and annoying.

 

Here's how I'd try to fix the inventory system, while still only using 2 buttons: Free up select by putting the map in the pause screen. Now, what I'd do is have select pull up 4 items that you can set from the subscreen to the d-pad. Each of these would be mapped to a d-pad direction. Think how the quick equip in ALBW worked. It's like a more hacky, simple version of that. Tap select, use the d-pad to pick your item, then press either A or B to set that item. You could actually have up to 5 items if you used the d-pad's neutral position as a slot too (or the sword could always be in the middle, idk). It's not perfect, but it could be quicker to have a pool of frequently used items for an area, instead of navigating the ever-changing item selection subscreen each and every time. Taking this a step further, you could even save different item presets. Gotta jump a hole with a Pegasus seed, then lift some rocks? Easy. With this method, that won't require three separate pauses. All of this would be optional, since there probably are people who are totally fine with the item selection currently. 

 

I'll be finishing this up soon, and moving onto LA, which is the most archaic of the bunch. Wish me luck.

[Cukeman]

I hope you've played LA before... LA is miles ahead of the oracles in story and music (can't say about dungeons, I never compared them). Anyway the Oracles are so derivate from LA/OoT/MM it'd be a shame to play the Oracles before LA as they borrow so much from LA you might be blinded to it's originality since the Oracles repeat stuff from LA.

[Anthus]

I actually own a copy of LA for the original GameBoy, and I have got pretty far before. I think I actually got to level 6, or 7 (which ever is the face shrine). I liked it, but sadly, my game cart decided my save was too n00b tier and wiped it. So, I'll be playing the 3DS DX version.

[Norzan]

Have fun with the last two dungeons of LA. If you didn't liked Jabu Jabu's Belly from Ages, oh boy, you are in for an annoying time with the last two dungeons of LA. The inventory management nightmare of this game is pushed to its breaking point with these two dungeons.

 

The rest of the game is decent, good for Gameboy standards. Found the story completely forgettable and failing what it was trying to do (making me care about the island). Overworld is alright and i would like the music if not for the seed theme playing over whatever music is currently playing when you pick up seed of power (this theme is grating).

Edited by Norzan, 01 January 2018 - 05:35 PM.