1641 replies to this topic

[Shane]

For all we know, the game could only be halfway done by the time the NX actually releases, which is why they didn't say such a thing.

Actually no, they said it's in its final stages of development (you can easily find other articles too regarding this) since last month. The whole delay was to probably make it a NX launch title, it sounds the most logical and why I believe March 2017 is the release month for Zelda U.

[Moon]

Way to screw over the people who bought Wii U for Zelda, Nintendo.

[Koh]

Actually no, they said it's in its final stages of development since last month. The whole delay was to probably make it a NX launch title, it sounds the most logical and why I believe March 2017 is the release month for Zelda U.

Which is sort of reasonable, but you still have to consider that the hardware wouldn't fully exist until then.  Which means, at least the rest of the month would have to be spent making sure the code is ported over correctly to the just now released hardware.  That would mean Late Spring, Early Summer would be the more reasonable time to expect the game to be optimized for fresh hardware, even if it makes use of coding standards for easy porting.

 

Way to screw over the people who bought Wii U for Zelda, Nintendo.

It's still coming to the Wii U, so they didn't screw over anyone.  Even so, a lesson not to buy a system for just one game, lest something happens (delays, or even cancellations in extreme cases).  Build yourself a library of at least 5 games you want for a system before you buy it, and you won't ever have regret issues.

Edited by Koh, 27 April 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[Moon]

It's still coming to the Wii U, so they didn't screw over anyone.  Even so, a lesson not to buy a system for just one game, lest something happens (delays, or even cancellations in extreme cases).  Build yourself a library of at least 5 games you want for a system before you buy it, and you won't ever have regret issues.

I myself did not buy the Wii U only for Zelda U, but I'm certain there is people that did.

 

It was announced in what, 2013 or 2014? It was supposed to be a Wii U exclusive.

 

It was also supposed to come out in 2015. Now it's coming out in 2017 just so it can be ported to NX.

[Mani Kanina]

Not really, no.  Depends on the hardware and interface, and approach taken.  If the hardware is properly optimized and easy to port TO, like from PC to PS4 or XBox One (or vice versa), porting the code (which is done by some supported standard, like C# or C++, or even Java) is almost as simple as copy and paste, with some minor adjustments, which would take a month to two months tops to sort out and retest.

Like, can we stop living in a fantasy world? I'm not even sure where to begin because practically everything here sounds like wishful thinking. The reason why porting between PC, PS4 and XBone is easy is due to the fact that the PS4 and Xbone is basically running a PC architecture. That does not mean it does not take a lot of time and work to actually get it working and bug free. If you want to have a look at shitty ports you need to look no further than warnerbrothers and their atrocious PC ports, which clearly need several more months of work to get the optimization for the new system right. And even then most PC ports are optimised to be run with a gamepad just like the console version, because it would take even more development time to make proper mouse and keyboard controls that work. Heck, many AAA ports don't even have rebindable keys, which you'd think is one of the easiest and quickest features to implement.

Nintendo generally run their own architecture, so I'd estimate that porting would be quite problematic. GC to wii was easy since the wii was a gimped GC, and from wii to wii U is also easy since the wii u is basically a gimped up wii. What is known about the NX so far seem to suggest that it runs a very different type of use experience, so the might have come that nintendo decided to start fresh, who knows? But I'd make an educated guess that NX will have very different architecture compare to the wii U. Even so, the wii u have a very unique controller so that's one thing they'd have to completely change in the NX port and make sure it works.

If you want to keep dreaming that multiplatform porting is just a quick copy and paste job, feel free to. Sadly, that's not really the reality of the situation, and you only need to look to all the examples within the industry to see that.

There's also concurrent development approach, where the different versions are being worked on simultaneously, and therefore the same logic and algorithms are put in place, but optimized for different hardware.  As long as there's enough communication between the teams on the different versions, this also wouldn't take much time.

Which require devoting more people to the project overall. Making proper version handling tools and automating parity between platforms is actually work in the first place and would take time, not to mention this is bloody new hardware and mostly like have it's own quirks that needs to be worked out.
 

The NX isn't actually out yet, so that's what the larger delay for a multiplatform release comes from.  Not the act of porting.

That's an assumption, you don't actually know this. It also makes no sense in the context of any other multiplatform release not on the edge between two systems. This argumentation is also mutually exclusive to:

But, you also can't assume they're trying to release it alongside the NX.  For all we know, the game could only be halfway done by the time the NX actually releases, which is why they didn't say such a thing.

And from a business perspective it makes no sense for this delay of the wii u version to the launch of the NX unless they plan on releasing both versions on the same time.

[Matthew]

Is the final product even going to be worth the wait?

[Norzan]

Welp, glad i didn't bought a Wii U.

[Koh]

-post-

You're only looking at the bad examples of porting.  There are more than enough good examples of them being either within the same month, or within two months of the original release, if not outright released concurrently all together.  Look at the Puyo Puyo series or Street Fighter series, for example, which feature some of the most ported games of all time (Puyo Puyo TSU and Street Fighter 2).  For arcade to home, it only took a matter of a couple of months, and the architectures were most definitely different at that time.  Now, there are libraries and such made to take care of the gritty work for you. You are vastly underestimating just how far along the development instrustry has evolved.  Look at most indie titles released in multiplatform fashion.  Either the same day, or within a month or two of the original version tops.  Just because some companies are notorious for terrible ports doesn't mean they're hard to do and nasty, it just means those companies didn't give a shit.

Edited by Koh, 27 April 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[Jared]

I honestly don't even mind waiting a little longer for the game. I have plenty to finish in the meantime. I just don't like how the fanbase is going to split up in between two groups again, just like what happened with TP on GC and Wii.

Personally, it's only going to make it harder for me to get the game, because I'm not sure whether to fully move onto the new system, or just get it on the "past" system with all of my current games and gameplay achievements.

[Matthew]

Frankly, I would wait a while before buying the NX and Zelda for it, Jared. Maybe make sure there are enough games to incentivize it.

[Cukeman]

I've been thinking about how the Zelda series has developed over time, becoming more linear and falling into a standard game length (not many entries come close to the number of dungeons in LttP). I think the biggest reason for this is that Nintendo wants the series to be accessible to a large number of people so they simplify things for that broader audience.

 

I think one thing Nintendo could do to fight that downward trend is to keep the necessary 8 dungeons that have items you need to reach the end / revive the correct number of sages / maidens / elements or whatever, but also have a bunch of optional dungeons hidden throughout the world that aren't necessary or obvious. These can have higher difficulty and can reward you with unnecessary but fun / cool / overpowered items, kinda like the LttP Medallions, Magic Cape and Cane of Byrna.

 

I don't really understand this simplify to make 'accessible to everyone' mentality of Nintendo's- sure it makes sense with the Wiimote a new method of control so certain demographics aren't put off by tons of buttons- but that's only gonna work if the motion controls come with deep motion based gameplay. Simple to pick up doesn't mean it can't have deep nuances to master. The original Super Mario Bros. is simple in concept- two buttons, run and jump, but it's anything but a walk in the park because of all the variations and combinations of platforming, obstacles and enemies. I feel that with game like A Link to the Past, there is a fairly high level of difficulty involved  (I'm not saying it's Castlevania or Ninja Gaiden) and it attracts a strong core fanbase and it's reputation gets the general audience interested enough to want to find out more about it and try their hand at it. People would see others playing it and think 'Wow, that's intriguing, I want to become good at that, I want to see why it's so well-liked' rather than fostering this 'I'm not acing this game instantly I quit' attitude.

Edited by Cukeman, 27 April 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[Moonbread]

Let's be clear, apart from dev time porting it to the NX, it was probably mostly a business delay. Zelda is a big deal, and this is their most anticipated title. Why exclusively put that on what is effectively the Sega Saturn of this generation? Zelda is a damn good title to have at launch (look at the Wii), and the NX is likely avoiding the main issue the Wii U had, which was the software drought it had for so long.

Am I incredibly annoyed by the delay? Hell fucking yeah I am. Is it a smart move on Nintendo's part? Yep. It really should've come out by now (look how many Souls games came out between '09 and now and those are huge games) but Nintendo's having a harder time. They need to start outsourcing Zelda to companies like Retro, but I guess that is a whole 'nother rant in itself. I'd just like to see more than one console Zelda in a whole decade at this point.

[Matthew]

I'm wondering if Nintendo should just become a third party developer altogether... They could create Zelda games to the current set of consoles rather than worry about creating their own consoles and balancing that with their own deadlines.

[Deedee]

I'm wondering if Nintendo should just become a third party developer altogether... They could create Zelda games to the current set of consoles rather than worry about creating their own consoles and balancing that with their own deadlines.

 

Nah, then they're basically doing what Sega did: "We quit. Here, have some low quality 3rd party games, and rushed Sonic games". The console before the Wii U was an incredible success, so I doubt they're going to abandon ship. Hell, they're ruling in the handheld market currently.

[The Satellite]

Just because Sega's third-party titles were generally of low-quality doesn't mean Nintendo's would be if they decided to go that route. They have more standards than that.