44 replies to this topic

[DrDiabetus]

Thanks a lot guys, I'am really happy that my entry won^^
Of course I will accept the critics I recieved so I can make better ones next time

[Naru]

I got 4 votes for that dungeon?!, I feel like the big winner now

 

Thank you for playing and congratulations to the real winners.

[TheLegend_njf]

The results here is exactly the reason why I now feel there should be less categories. I could create half a dozen specific categories, and tally them up and you wouldn't be able to get a reasonable satisfactory winner. You could have a well designed dungeon lose to a potentially poorly designed dungeon because it got unanimous favored votes for "best tileset". Not only should votes be counted, there should be some understanding which categories are considered more important with the community. 

 

For example:

 

Say if we went with an earlier suggestion I made and have three options:

 

Best overall design

Most enjoyable

Most Aesthetic

 

Out of those three options, we can decide which options the community finds overall most important. In my opinion, the best overall design should be the most important here. So perhaps giving it a bigger score in the final total wouldn't be unreasonable. Lets say for example:

 

x 2 pts for Best Overall Design

x 1.5 pts for Most Enjoyable

x 1 pts for Most Aesthetic

 

Here, a poorly designed dungeon will have a much more difficult time winning because it's "pretty".

 

Say if the votes turned out this way for example:

 

4 votes for Best Overall Design

5 Votes for Most Enjoyable

6 Votes for most Aesthetic

 

This example would bring the actual total to:

 

8 pts for Best Overall Designed

7.5 pts for Most Enjoyable

6 pts for Most Aesthetic

 

Overall, I think it would be much more fair to otherwise amazing dungeons that probably lack in the "prettiness" category. I'd also like to agree that as far as dungeons are considered. It's playability and enjoyment factor should be most important. What's a pretty dungeon when it's essentially not even playable?

[Anthus]

I appreciate your input. I agree some adjustments should be made. However, tallying total votes does, IMO reflect a "winner" cause it is an absolute total. You get the most votes for your entry across all categories, you win seems simple enough.

[Joelmacool]

Thanks for the votes guys. I'm going to enjoy this one pizza slice.

[Anthus]

Are you guys tired of the Triangles yet?

NJF, I reread your post, and I missed the part about weighing certain categories as more. That's not a bad idea. I see what you mean about how a pretty tileset with presumably mediocre gameplay could beat a very well designed Classic dungeon. I might have a way of skewing that. I think I might do away with the tileset category altogether and use, "Best designed (which would encompass puzzles, enemy/item use, layout, and design)", "Most fun to Play" (which is more subjective and should generate a few different outlooks, and points of critique), and, "Most Atmospheric" (which is kinda like design, but can cover other stuff like music, SFX, visuals, and over all feel in conveying a gimmick, theme, or idea.)

I feel that weighted votes wouldn't be so necessary with those three, broader categories.

[Naru]

I am more with NJF, most enjoyable and most aesthetic are easy to understand and to rate them different (less points) feels fair to me. Best overall includes everything else and you can just call out in the review what is outstanding about it.

With best design and most atmospheric we once more have two categories that are not clear and there are many things that fit for both. It feels a bit like deviding best overall into two categories and I don't see why. It kind of adds to the confusion.

[Anthus]

Maybe there could only be two categories? I'm having some trouble myself truly justifying that third category. It is similar to the first one. Back to the drawing board

I might not be around much today or tomorrow, I'm going on a small trip with my friend today.

[TheLegend_njf]

Three categories are fine.

Most aethestic and most atmospheric is essentially the same thing for most people. Aesthetic still sounds like a more fitting word covering a much broader range.

Also, after second thoughts, it's okay to tally the votes equal based off these three categories:

Best Designed
Most Enjoyable
Most Armospheric (Or Aesthetic)

Edited by NewJourneysFire, 13 June 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Naru]

Hmm... I am not completely of the same opinion but since I know not too much about art and don't get always what exactly a word means in english (since most words do not translate 1:1) the following could be rather pointless.

Two really important categories are which one you like the best (most enjoyable) and which one "is" the best (best designed). Most enjoyable is obviously and important since fun is the most important thing for a game and can make even simple quests outstanding. Best design is not so obvious for me, I know what you mean but design includes pretty much everything to me, including fun. Important here is the fact that a complex and challenging quest can be worth your time even if you more struggle with it than enjoy it. I kind of would prefer a category name that excludes the fun-factor from the design-category.

The aesthetic category kind of is making an extra-category for an underpoint of best designed, but I think how a quest looks is one of the more important things. Also, if the best designed would not include the looks it would be perfect. Like: most enjoyable, best looking, best designed "excluding fun and looks". Though this could also be done by giving the categories a definition through the rules.

[Anthus]

Since a lot of people may interpret things differently, the three categories are defined pretty broadly. A lot of it is still opinion too. What someone enjoys, or finds aesthetically pleasing may be a complete opposite of what someone else finds enjoyable or aesthetically pleasing. Regardless of language, people will interpret as they will, so keeping them more broad means I don't have to be as strict, and potentially undermine the contest by making excessive rules for voting if all that makes sense. We will try three categories and see how it works.

I will write up guidelines on what the categories are intended to entail, but a lot of it will be up to the player, how they play, what they like/ dislike, and what they take away from it with their expectations.

[Naru]

That is still not exactly what I meant, but it is not too important anyway

[Shoshon the Elegant]

I like Most Enjoyable and Most Well Designed, as it seems to cover everything that should be covered.

Something else I was thinking was Most Appropriate Difficulty. This may fit under Most Well Designed, but basically, it's somethung where maybe the dungeon was fun or designed well, but perhaps it doesn't feel appropriate as a level 1 or 8 dungeon.

[Anthus]

That's an interesting idea. A lot of these level ones have been pretty hard.

 

I'd say it fails into most enjoyable in a way, because difficulty, like a lot of things, is relative to the player.

 

 

 

So here's the deal. I'm really thinking about doing away with categories. Thought?

 

Also, as a reminder, since this thread is more active than the main DotM thread, we are in desperate need of accepting entries for Dungeon of the Month 4! 

[Anthus]

That's an interesting idea. A lot of these level ones have been pretty hard. 

 

I'd say it fails into most enjoyable in a way, because difficulty, like a lot of things, is relative to the player.

 

 

 

So here's the deal. I'm really thinking about doing away with categories. Thought?

 

Also, as a reminder, since this thread is more active than the main DotM thread, we are in desperate need of accepting entries for Dungeon of the Month 4!