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#31 Radien

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:57 AM

QUOTE(Nick @ Oct 26 2011, 09:27 PM) View Post
I tried to keep things completely random. I really did. But I've actually already skipped one quest before picking up Bikdip's Adventure. Unfortunately, I've had to do it again for next week, so it's time to address this.

Case in point, I was originally slated to review The Realm of Shamanock - DX next week. I did play up to near the end of level 3... but I just can't continue it. It's terrible. This is a 1/5 quest.

Look at this short 3 minute video I made of the overworld. It just has to be seen to be believed.


Warning: "This quest will blow your mind."

...Wow... I guess that's what can happen if you pick quests randomly.

As for that video: at first it didn't look horrible, until I realized how each screen was designed. Something to block the player on several sides, then fill the rest in with randomly scattered trees or rocks, and nothing else. It should be called "Link's Adventure Through Randomly Strewn Debris."

While random is quite fair, I guess that means that my LoZ: Master Quest -- like any other individual quest -- doesn't have much chance of coming up. icon_unsettled.gif Oh well...

A question: if your random selection turns up an old quest that has already been updated, will you review the updated version instead? If so, I'm tempted to remove the older version of LoZ: Master Quest, or at least make sure I've put a note on it about the updated version.

#32 Twilight Knight

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:30 AM

I've seen much worse quest. Yes of course the random rocks everywhere aren't an attractive sight, but this was made in 2004 when nobody really cared about the graphical aspect of a quest + it's his first quest. You can't expect too much. That doesn't make up for the fact it's terrible though.

#33 LinktheMaster

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE(Pokemonmaster64 @ Oct 26 2011, 11:53 PM) View Post

What will you guys do if you get Armageddon Quest I wonder. It's not a gauntlet quest, nor is it a terrible quest, but it's way too hard to beat in a mere week. Will you rate a quest like that based on what you can complete? Do you take off points for difficulty despite the fact that being super difficult is the whole purpose behind the quest?


Well, it depends. If one of us enjoys the quest a bunch, we may take two weeks to review it. There are two of us writing reviews, so that would definitely be possible. However, if we don't enjoy it, then we may just get as far as we can get in one week and then write the review. I don't see us playing a quest more than two weeks before reviewing it, though.

QUOTE(Radien @ Oct 27 2011, 04:57 AM) View Post

A question: if your random selection turns up an old quest that has already been updated, will you review the updated version instead? If so, I'm tempted to remove the older version of LoZ: Master Quest, or at least make sure I've put a note on it about the updated version.

Well, if we know of a newer version, we'll play the newer version. However, if it's not put in the description clearly and we don't know of it, then we'll play whichever version comes up randomly. icon_shrug.gif

#34 trudatman

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 07:52 PM

I'm hoping y'all choose to review the ones you hate, too. five stars mean nothing if there is never a one-star review, if you dig. if it comes up and you can run the file, please review it. don't rule out quests made in 1.84 nor quests that are only five screens nor quests that give you seizures; we want to know. that's the point of reviews.

#35 Chris Miller

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:04 PM

Do Titan's Quest. (cheap plug)
If it doesn't drive you mad you first. icon_biggrin.gif

#36 Kite

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:01 AM

We generally pick a quest two weeks before its review goes live. So if the quest looks like it is going to be long, we can dedicate more than a week to it.

But I have to upfront admit that I generally don't like BS difficulty. I was never a fan of I Wanna Be the Guy, for instance. I'm aware that there are people that enjoy that stuff though, so I will try to account for that if I do run across quests that use it.

QUOTE(trudatman @ Oct 27 2011, 08:52 PM) View Post
I'm hoping y'all choose to review the ones you hate, too. five stars mean nothing if there is never a one-star review, if you dig. if it comes up and you can run the file, please review it. don't rule out quests made in 1.84 nor quests that are only five screens nor quests that give you seizures; we want to know. that's the point of reviews.

While that is a nice philosophy, part of the reason we started this up was to find quests to play. The review part actually didn't come up until LinktheMaster was partway into Hyrule's Christmas DX (after getting it randomly) and wanted to type a review about it. Things rolled from there.

I know that our harsh criticism makes it look like we are out to slam every quest in existence, but that isn't the point. These are our honest opinions. They don't look nice and we certainly don't mince our words, but that's just how it is. We are not trying to bash anything. We are trying to give detailed reasoning behind our opinions, though I admit that a lot of it is subjective.

We also do this so that various quest makers (even if they didn't make the quest being reviewed) can look and say "oh. They had a problem with that part? Maybe I should take a better look at that?" Of course, another reason is so that all the quest players out there can get more detailed information on various quests in the database beyond what can be conveyed in the limited reviews.

And then we are doing this to make something potentially interesting to read. If it isn't interesting to read, then no one will read it.

That is why we decided to set up a filter. Playing every 1/5 quest in existence and trying in vain to come up with interesting things to say about them would not be very fun and would end up being contrary to our original reasoning for starting this. We also feel that taking our time to write up a lengthy review on a quest that 10 people say is extremely buggy and unplayable would ultimately be a waste of time for both us and the people reading the reviews. For these quests, the current reviews on PZC's database are sufficient.

With that said, we might be touching the 1/5 quests we run across at some point. These will probably be done as mini-reviews separate from the main reviews.

#37 Cukeman

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:39 PM

Maybe you could just list the 'skipped quests' so we know what the quests are that you didn't feel
were good enough to review. That is a type of rating in itself, in a way.

#38 Rocksfan13

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:45 PM

I would recommend that any quests of mine you plan on reviewing, take some time.
Especially any of the newer ones.

Actually this reminds me of what the FQoTM was meant to be.
It doesn't seem to be getting any where as much attention as this one... icon_frown.gif

#39 Kite

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

Weekly Random Review #4 –11/1/2011
X-Flakes 2 by LavaBall


As those keeping up with the thread may know, I had a bit of a hard time finding a quest to review this week. I was originally going to review a different quest, but I couldn't find enough interesting things to say without turning to gimmicks that would be kind of lame. I could have mentioned a few facts about that particular quest's creator, but that would have gone down territory I'd rather not tread in this thread.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This week's quest is certainly odd. It uses Happyman's rarely used HappySet. It has a mixture of unique ideas and is driven by a plot. The quest name is a pun of X-Files and even stars a character named Mulder. However, everything seems to fall flat in the actual execution.

IPB Image
Disclaimer: This review will not contain Chuck Norris jokes. Sorry.


Gameplay

This quest is linear. It is so linear that it railroads you.

The quest is broken up into five main overworld-ish areas. In order to properly progress, you need to complete everything within the current area before continuing. This includes buying all the unique shop items and getting the item of the dungeon in the area. You are technically supposed to be going after "artifacts" in each dungeon (the 8 triforce pieces), but I'll explain why that doesn't matter later.

IPB Image
Welcome to Overworld2, not to be confused with the second overworld. Wait, what?


The fact that you need to do everything before progressing is not made immediately obvious. You don't get to spend a lot of time in the first overworld before being railroaded into a one-way cave entrance. This first path blockage does not matter since you will eventually be able to return to the first overworld near the end of the game. You really can't get anything from it anyway. However, it's a mistake to assume that you are safe to plow through the rest of the quest as quickly as possible.

On my first playthrough, I explored nearly everything and bought all the items I could find. Because of this, I didn't run into this quest's major issue. When playing through a second time, I rushed through things and accidentally skipped the shop that contained the candle and the bait replacement (a fruit). Because of this, I was unable to complete the game when I reached the fourth overworld since it is impossible to backtrack.

IPB Image
Two of these three required items are only available in this particular shop. You have to buy the letter (juice) from a different shop to access this.


But it isn't too much of an issue to replay the quest if you are that desperate to see it through to the end. I beat the quest in my first casual playthrough in 35:49. The overworlds are extremely small and easy to explore and the four dungeons are even smaller (the longest dungeon is probably 7 screens large). The only challenge in the quest comes from bats and wizzrobes being in early levels they should not be in for a balanced difficulty quest, but even that is offset by how spacious and bland the dungeons happen to be. The quest also hands out powerful items like candy. You get the hammer in level 2 and a whole cache of upgraded items before you touch level 3.

Narrative

This quest stars a character named Mulder, which is not at all a p
but then Mulder decides to go after the artifacts after Chuck Nor
guy tells you that he is from the future, or something. I have no
another agent is seeking the artifacts for some vague evil purpo
and then Mulder goes into an alternate dark dimension portal f
The evil agent guy makes a lame pun involving Sonic the Hedge
"I see You know everything the Beast with the 666 Know"
and then the agent guy sends Mulder to "The past Of Mulder."
Despite time traveling, Mulder picks up more powerful items
the temple doesn't have an artifact as advertised, but that doe
Mulder returns to the present and rafts down from the beginn
feeds the fruit to the ladder in order to progress to the final are
Mulder defeats the four evil black x's by turning them green wi
it turns out he didn't get all the artifacts, but maybe he will get
them next time.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but the strings in the quest cut off randomly. It's usually only one character at most, but it sometimes feels like I am missing major chunks of what is going on. I checked this in 2.10 since I thought this might just be a 2.50 issue, but it is not. The strings also contain numerous typos, making the already hard to follow story even harder to follow. I would normally try to ignore the disjointed story, but LavaBall made it a major focus of the quest. There are actually cutscenes in this quest outside of randomly going into guy caves. I dare say the story is the only reason to play this quest (not that it is a good reason).

IPB Image
Nothing says X-Files parody like... Sonic the Hedgehog?


Also, X-Flakes 2 tries to be funny... but I honestly think it is annoying. Chuck Norris just ends up being odd and the quest makes several random jokes that make no sense or look completely out of place. I'm aware this is supposed to be a parody of X-Files, but the jokes could have been done much better. The only thing that made this even remotely like X-Files was the usage of random cryptic conversations that made no sense.

Design Attention

Things get really spastic here.

The overworld, as small as it is, has most of the screen design effort put into it. The only overworld screens that have major design flaws that stick out to me are the ones featuring heavy amounts of water. However, this doesn't excuse how horribly bland every interior screen is.

IPB Image
Imagine three screens adjacent to this one. That's level 1 in its entirety.


It also doesn't excuse how horribly designed the dungeons are. All dungeons can be summed up as walks through bland areas to get an item then get the artifact. The plot even tries to hand wave it by claiming the first dungeon was bland on purpose, so LavaBall clearly knew this. What makes this even more annoying is that the main dungeon objective, the artifact, is not even necessary to beat the quest. There are only two artifacts in the quest. The last dungeon does not check if you have them, so you can presumably beat the game as soon as you have all the necessary items.

IPB Image
Imagine four scree—oh you get the point! This is about as detailed as the "real" dungeons get.


Get used to this midi. As nice as Espilan's custom midis are, this midi is overused in the quest. Of the 7 midis in the quest, this one is used for almost every dungeon and is used for the alternate dimension. I eventually just muted midis and played my own music over it. I think LavaBall set all of the midis to volume level 255. They are really, really loud. The one thing I can complement the quest on in the music department is that it didn't shy away from using PureZC midis.

What really kills me about X-Flakes 2 is that it contains random spurts of cleverness. They are just not used effectively. In the first cave, there is an instant death pit. Sadly, it is really easy to ignore and that is the only instance of it in the entire quest. Armos statues can often be found hidden under bushes (a dickish move I enjoy seeing). There are some actual "cutscenes" in the quest that do not involve just walking into a guy cave, but they are few and far between.

There are also things that make me scratch my head, such as the first screen of "overworld2" (the third overworld). When you walk off to the right, you cannot return to that screen since there is a random scrolling warp. That just makes no sense. There is also a random magic carpet thing that takes you out of the first cave into the second overworld appropriately titled "Where am I." The quest sets up rows of bushes that can only be cut with a more powerful sword... only to give you the necessary sword on the same screen. Ganon is also just a collection of four black X's. icon_confused2.gif

Suggestions

The quest could really do with far less railroading. I'm aware that there was a story to tell, but part of the design process of a quest involving plot is to create a balance between gameplay looseness and keeping things to the plot. If this is hard, then the least that could be done is to allow for backtracking so that players do not screw themselves over if they forget a necessary item.

Also, the interiors were extremely bland. They had very little effort put into them. I know that HappySet has far more tiles available for interiors than what LavaBall used in this quest. Some actual puzzles would have also helped the monotony a bit to keep it from just being a walk from point A to point B formula for all the interior areas.

Summary

Overall, X-Flakes 2 is a quest that tried to tell a story, but just didn't do it effectively. The design of the quest seemed secondary to the story and it really shows. But it wasn't without a few random clever things sprinkled in it. It just wasn't enough to make the quest worthwhile.

I don't recommend playing this quest unless you are really curious about the disjointed story. This barely gets a 2 out of 5 due to its game stopping issues.

Score: 2/5



#40 Moosh

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:22 PM

2/5 is a magic number, is it not?

#41 Kite

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 02:50 PM

QUOTE(Pokemonmaster64 @ Nov 1 2011, 03:22 PM) View Post
2/5 is a magic number, is it not?

That has unfortunately been our luck so far. I added a list of quests we (or rather, just myself so far) have skipped to the first post. I'm cursed with horrible luck on the random number generator. I think my next quest to review might have a higher rating (at least a 3), but that's only based on playing one dungeon.

But I have to admit that I'm getting kind of sick of running into so many 1-3 out of 5 quests. We may try something to make things a bit less monotonous and to also allow more reader participation. It would be something to be done once a month or so in order to keep things from becoming stale. We'll have more details later once we have hammered out how to go about doing it. icon_wink.gif

#42 LinktheMaster

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:45 PM

Nick and I would like to announce a slight change to how we’ll decide quests from now on. From here on out, every three weeks we’ll review a quest randomly from a list of requested quests by users. icon_smile.gif These weeks will be the Random Requested Review weeks. icon_wink.gif

Essentially, what we’ll do is have everyone PM either myself and Nick with suggestions for quests for us to review. A week ahead of when that review is due to be posted, we’ll gather the list of quests, pick one randomly, then we’ll review it. The reason we’re doing this is to break the monotony of the simply average quests we’ve had the last couple of weeks.

However! There are six restrictions:
  1. One person can only suggest up to 2 quests at a time.
  2. Suggested quests have to have at least a rating of 4 on the database (main database only).
  3. You have to be okay with us listing you as the person who requested the quest. icon_razz.gif
  4. Whenever you PM us quests to review, put something like “Review Request” in the PM title.
  5. Quests have to be either in the 2.5 or normal PureZC database. Also, link us to the quest just in case there’s a DX version we’re not aware of.
  6. All other restrictions for quests apply, so look over those restrictions.
So, feel free to PM us to let us know what you want us to review, then we’ll hop to it. For the first review, we’ll need all submissions by Tuesday November 8th. The first Random Requested Review will be Tuesday November 15th. This will be week #6, so take that into consideration.

#43 Avaro

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:23 PM

And we can suggest our own quest if it meets the restrictions? You guys knew, that this question would be coming. I really like the idea. This way, it will be much more interesting to read the reviews. Not that they aren't already interesting, but still.

Edited by Avataro, 02 November 2011 - 07:06 PM.


#44 Kite

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:50 PM

QUOTE(Avataro @ Nov 2 2011, 06:23 PM) View Post

And we can suggest our own quest if it meets the restrictions? You guys know, that this quest would be coming. I really like the idea. This way, it will be much more interesting to read the reviews. Not that they aren't already interesting, but still.

Yes. You can suggest your own quest if it meets the restrictions. Just remember that we are not going to go easy on anything. icon_wink.gif

#45 trudatman

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

if you draw a 1.84 quest, will you play it in 1.84? judging it from 1.9x/2.x is not fair. if you cannot run the require version, will you skip it?

please define "gauntlet quests" as it pertains to the decisions and where a line is likely to be set.

a four rating is a bit high of a requirement, I think.

could you indicate which version it is for in the thread for easier use?

please keep them coming. thanks.


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