667 replies to this topic

[HylianGlaceon]

Wait, so, can someone explain to me why the Wii U pro controllers can't work with this? Glad I didn't end up ever buying one. The controller prices are pretty outrageous, but on the upside, those prices will only go down, I hope, in the coming years.

So they can sell you a $70 controller you shouldn't need to buy.  I looked it up and can't really find anything beyond that the Switch Pro Controller can scan amiibo and it has this "HD Rumble".

[Anthus]

Hm, who knows, they haven't technically confirmed that they aren't backward compatible, and given they've only added controllers to next systems in the past, it's a possibility.

[The Satellite]

I was curious so I did some digging to look up some data to the best of my ability. There've been complaints about a "dry" launch for the Switch, and that that would doom the system, but... well, that doesn't really guarantee anything. Have a look at the games available at launch date for three highly successful systems:

 

NES - Super Mario Bros., Duck Hunt
SNES - Super Mario World, F-Zero

Game Boy - Tetris

 

I had some difficulty tracking down release dates for these systems but as far as I can tell, these are the only games that released at the same time as the system. The NES is hailed as saving home console gaming, the Game Boy revolutionized portable gaming, and the SNES is lauded as one of the greatest consoles of all time. But look at that pitiful launch selection.

 

The N64, which did decently, also had a very limited launch, giving us only Super Mario 64 and Pilotwings 64. The DS, which is Nintendo's most successful line ever, only had Feel the Magic: XY/XX (that game sure existed), Spider-Man 2, Asphalt Urban GT, and its own version of Super Mario 64 DS.

 

Conversely, a smaller launch doesn't mean success either, because at the time of Gamecube's release, the only games available were Luigi's Mansion, Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader, Crazy Taxi, and Super Monkey Ball. Super Smash Bros. Melee was available only a couple of weeks later! And yet, Gamecube wasn't much of a success.

 

At the same time... Shall we took at the number of games Wii U launched with?

 

Assassin's Creed III, Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition, Ben 10: Omniverse, Call of Duty: Black Ops II, Chasing Aurora, Darksiders II, Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two, ESPN Sports Connection, FIFA Soccer 13, Game Party Champions, Just Dance 4, Little Inferno, Mass Effect 3: Special Edition, Mighty Switch Force! Hyper Drive Edition, Nano Assault Neo, New Super Mario Bros. U, Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, Nintendo Land, Rabbids Land, Scribblenauts Unlimited, Sing Party, Skylanders: Giants, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed, Tank! Tank! Tank!, Tekken Tag Tournament 2, Transformers: Prime – The Game, Trine 2: Director's Cut, Warriors Orochi 3: Hyper, Wipeout: The Game 3, Your Shape: Fitness Evolved 2013, and ZombiU.

 

That's a lot! ... but Wii U is Nintendo's least-successful system ever barring the Virtual Boy. And a good number of these are just ports of games that have been out on other systems for some time already.

 

But that also doesn't mean big launches won't be successful. Take a look at the size of these systems' launches:

 

Game Boy Advance - Castlevania: Circle of the Moon, Super Mario Advance, ChuChu Rocket!, Earthworm Jim, F-Zero: Maximum Velocity, Konami Krazy Racers, Rayman Advance

Wii - Avatar: The Last Airbender, Barnyard, Call of Duty 3, Excite Truck, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, Rampage: World Destruction, Red Steel, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, Trauma Center: Second Opinion, Wii Sports

3DS - Asphalt 3D, Bust-A-Move Universe, Combat of Giants: Dinosaurs 3D, Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars, Madden NFL Football, Nintendogs + Cats, Pilotwings Resort, Pro Evolution Soccer 2011, Rayman 3D, Ridge Racer 3D, Samurai Warriors: Chronicles, The Sims 3, Steel Diver, Super Monkey Ball 3D, Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars

 

While the GBA launch was fairly sizable, the Wii and 3DS launches were quite large (even if, again, some of the titles were just ports of existing games), and all three systems went on to be incredibly successful.

 

The secret to a successful console isn't its launch, it's having games people want to play. For the handheld generations, Pokemon alone is a massive seller. Hell, 3DS wasn't a very successful system at first either until it was revitalized and injected with a big lineup of games people wanted to play. Sure, the gimmicks of each system might have partially contributed to a success, but at the end of the day, people want games. And when it comes to Gamecube and Wii U... well, there just weren't a lot of games on those systems the masses wanted to play. More egregiously with the Wii U; the Gamecube library is actually quite solid! It's just that a lot of those games you can get on the other systems as well.

 

Basically, we shouldn't be looking at the Switch's launch to determine its success, but its library, and to be honest, the first year is looking strong. Sure, they need to maintain that momentum in the following years, but a good first year is definitely going to go a long way towards getting people to adopt early. Let's just see if they can grab that momentum and then stay the course. And even if not... remember that 3DS was slow to start as well.

[Nicholas Steel]

Wait, Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader was released before the first game in the trilogy? I believe you can't use the old Pro Controller because it has different analog sticks and the gamepad plastic shell surrounding them is hexagonal shaped instead of circular.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 15 January 2017 - 08:25 PM.

[The Satellite]

Wait, Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader was released before the first game in the trilogy?

Literally no idea how you got that impression. All I said was that Rogue Leader was a Gamecube launch title.

[Anthus]

I think the SNES had Pilot Wings 1 at launch too, along side SMW, and F-Zero. But regardless, that is a really good point. It was actually something I was talking about with some of my friends, cause they are all doom and gloom about the price of the system, and price of the additional controllers, and the launch line up. I told them that most Nintendo systems had very few games at launch. The more I think about it though too, the controller prices are not that bad. How often will you have to replace them? It's a steep initial investment, but I'd like to believe they will last a long time. Nintendo always makes really high quality controllers.

[Moonbread]

I'm pretty sure part of the reason there's not a huge launch line-up is because what is everyone going to get?  Breath of the Wild.  Everyone wants it.  EVERYONE.  Nothing will get, or would get, nearly as many sales as that will.  So... why bother trying to sell anything else that's huge at the time?  Wait at least a month to start selling other big stuff so people have gotten something of a fill of Zelda.  Heck, third party companies are probably loving that there's not that many games at launch because they don't have to compete as much- Skylanders and Just Dance will sell better than if they had to compete with like, eight other big games, which should make Activision and Ubisoft pretty happy.  And the new version of Rayman Legends (which is reported to be more than a port, having a good chunk of new content) might do pretty well since it's not at launch!  I'm personally really hoping Bomberman R does really well, because it not only looks good, but if it does well, that might tell Konami that people are still interested in them, no matter how much they've pissed us off.  Of course, another reason is that Bomberman R is made by both Nintendo's devs AND they got old Hudson devs from the good ol' days.  That alone should make it hella good.

 

Also, Mario Kart 8 DX should be a backup saving grace, considering it was MK7 that really saved the 3DS in the first place, and coming out a month and a half after Switch launches is a grand time to do it, for all the people who love Mario Kart but didn't own a Wii U. (spoilers: that's a lot of people.)  I'm sure a decent number of people will double dip too, thanks to the revamped battle mode.

 

And yeah, looking at the N64 in particular, it didn't launch with the most impressive selection (I mean SM64 is fantastic but I'm talking number of options here), and yet these days it's actually the most popular retro system.  People have a lot of nostalgia for it, and it's for stuff that came out later in its cycle- Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time, Banjo Kazooie, Smash Bros; stuff like that.

 

The only things annoying me right now... There's two things.  The grip for the joycons that comes with the system doesn't charge them.  That's infuriating- you have to plug the joycons into the portable itself to charge them, I believe, while the actual charging grip is $30.  Plus I'm gonna want a second set of Joycons when Arms comes out, which is another $80.  (This is getting expensive...)  Of course, if the battery on them is like, half as good as the Wii U pro controller's, it'll last for 10 years before it needs a charge.  The other thing is the online service, because right now it just seems like a slap in the face.  Like, as much as paying for online with XBox Live and Playstation+ is annoying, at least there's perks for it.  And you know, they need to maintain servers, so fair enough.  But after the Wii U and 3DS just having online services for free for everything... Yeahhhhh I'm not feeling it here when it's mostly just to play MK8 with friends and to play Splatoon 2.

[HylianGlaceon]

I think the SNES had Pilot Wings 1 at launch too, along side SMW, and F-Zero. But regardless, that is a really good point. It was actually something I was talking about with some of my friends, cause they are all doom and gloom about the price of the system, and price of the additional controllers, and the launch line up. I told them that most Nintendo systems had very few games at launch. The more I think about it though too, the controller prices are not that bad. How often will you have to replace them? It's a steep initial investment, but I'd like to believe they will last a long time. Nintendo always makes really high quality controllers.

Meh, if I want to do a multiplayer game that requires a Left and Right Joycon it'll be an additional $80 or $110 with the charger, That's pretty bad for a controller..

 

(Also my DS Lite and OG 3DS were crap and had to be replaced pretty soon after I got them despite buying them new. Not controllers exactly, but still.)

[thepsynergist]

Meh, if I want to do a multiplayer game that requires a Left and Right Joycon it'll be an additional $80 or $110 with the charger, That's pretty bad for a controller..

 

(Also my DS Lite and OG 3DS were crap and had to be replaced pretty soon after I got them despite buying them new. Not controllers exactly, but still.)

Kind of makes you think when the cost of the controller is more expensive than the 3DS (if you got the $99 one.)

[kurt91]

Well, I guess in a way it's a good thing that there's nobody to play with where I live? I don't think I'd be able to afford all of the extra gear, which is sad when you consider that Nintendo's big selling point besides portability is playing with other people.

[The Satellite]

Judging by 1-2 Switch, they haven't abandoned that notion, and I'm sure that was their basis for giving one set of Joy-Cons the capacity to be two controllers. They just... made anything beyond that more complicated.

[Cukeman]

If we get a new Pokemon on Switch that's gonna be huge

[MaeioParty]

While a Pokémon game would be great , the biggest issue as always will be third party support. The Hardware is going to limit the number of initial ports which means if Nintendo doesn't sell this thing quick, no one is going to make games for it. Again, Like the Wii U. Then we are going to be stuck with the slow first party cycle. Again.

As someone who always forks out for a Nintendo console, if only to support them in an increasingly less creatively diverse industry, this cycle of third place on the home console is aleady becoming tiresome.

[thepsynergist]

Then we are going to be stuck with the slow first party cycle. Again.

 

When has that ever not been the case with Nintendo?

[Nicholas Steel]

Literally no idea how you got that impression. All I said was that Rogue Leader was a Gamecube launch title.

Isn't Star Wars Rogue Leader 1 also on Gamecube? Were both the first 2 games launch titles? I don't know why you would launch a console with a sequel and then release the first game later on, that sounds dumb to me so I am wanting to understand why you think they released the middle game of a trilogy as a launch title when all 3 games are on Gamecube.

 

Maybe I'm getting confused with a different star wars series on the console?

$110 isn't as bad as the $200 Xbox One Elite controller.

Edited by Nicholas Steel, 16 January 2017 - 12:38 PM.