1333 replies to this topic

[Radien]

So long as it gets rid of the limited use items like Ball and Chain and the Beyblade from TP, and not replace them with similar bad ideas, I'll be happy as punch.

Stop calling it the Beyblade. It's the Spinner. English language names are not inferior by nature. And might I point out that I have a minor in Japanese, and yet I still say that.

Secondly, if you think the Ball and Chain is useless, that means you probably don't know how to use it properly. It's an extremely slow weapon, yes, but it's also extremely powerful and -- here's the kicker -- long range. You can even use it to kill bats if you want to, assuming you want to save ammo and have no fear of getting hurt.

But the real combat application of the Ball and Chain is blizzalfols, or whatever those frozen warriors are called. It breaks through their defenses. It can strike from a distance. And it hits them once on the way out and once on the way back. That, plus its hitbox size, are good balancing factors for its inaccuracy. When you're trying to hit a huge, unmoving target, accuracy is not necessarily all that important.

I very much enjoyed the Ball and Chain as a fresh change from the overused Hammer item. It had its strengths and its limitations, which was the perfect reason to keeping swapping between it and other weapons/items. I don't expect it will return in Skyward Sword, but that's okay. It fits the tone and feel of Twilight Princess perfectly. And better yet, it bore a wonderful similarity to Alundra's Chain Hammer.

Yes the ball and chain is powerful but it greatly restricts your movement while using it and is both incredibly inaccurate and slow to use. Every other zelda game uses items that are fast to use if they impede movement or are of average speed while allowing you to move reasonably. Also the items have very little use outside of ghost/heart piece hunting once you've done the dungeon the item is found in.

Beyblade had tons of potential until it was found you travel extremely slowly when not on a track with it.

As far as I can remember there was only one area outside of that dungeon where you could use the Spinner. When at the very least they could have incorporated it into the following dungeons. It saddened me, especially considering how much potential it had.

True: they designed the Spinner so that it is nearly useless without a track, and there weren't enough tracks. However, I'm sure there were at least three or four areas you could use it on the overworld. Maybe more. Still not enough by far, but certainly more than one area.

However, I think there's one thing we can all agree on: no more rupee-sucking armour! It was especially useless considering by the time you got it, it was useless anyways. I suppose that's kind of the same as the Magic Armour in Wind Waker, though.

Agreed: I don't want rupee-sucking armor.

...I want a rupee-sucking giant sword. Who needs ridiculously overboard defense when you can have ridiculously overboard offense?

As for the Magic Armor in WW, true, it was similar to the Magic Armor in TP. The problem was that TP's used rupees, which, unlike WW's magic meter, are time-consuming to refill, no matter how frequently you are presented with rupee chests.

In any case, I mostly ignored the Magic Armor in WW. I'm not sure whether WW was harder or easier than TP, but I certainly never saw a Game Over in WW. (Except that one time when I did it on purpose just to see what it looked like )

[Nicholas Steel]

Secondly, if you think the Ball and Chain is useless, that means you probably don't know how to use it properly. It's an extremely slow weapon, yes, but it's also extremely powerful and -- here's the kicker -- long range. You can even use it to kill bats if you want to, assuming you want to save ammo and have no fear of getting hurt.

Use arrows, sword, hookshot or slingshot etc. numerous ways to kill stuff significantly more efficiently and you never run out of ammo unless your terrible or intentionally avoiding using Z-Targeting.

But the real combat application of the Ball and Chain is blizzalfols, or whatever those frozen warriors are called. It breaks through their defenses. It can strike from a distance. And it hits them once on the way out and once on the way back. That, plus its hitbox size, are good balancing factors for its inaccuracy. When you're trying to hit a huge, unmoving target, accuracy is not necessarily all that important.

You encounter such ice enemies in one dungeon and maybe once or twice in a tiny cave located somewhere in the overworld with the cave requiring you to kill all enemies to reveal a ghost/heart piece. Barely useful outside of the dungeon considering how many better methods of killing stuff are available to you.

True: they designed the Spinner so that it is nearly useless without a track, and there weren't enough tracks. However, I'm sure there were at least three or four areas you could use it on the overworld. Maybe more. Still not enough by far, but certainly more than one area.

I can only remember 2 places in the overworld for using the beyblade, one was to get a heart piece while the other was south or west of castle town where Tabatha sometimes appears, you use it to get a orange rupee. You might also use it one or 2 other places but without tracks it is 100% useless.

Both are probably used in the Cave of Ordeals as lame progression limiters to stop you beating the Cave of Ordeals when the rewards would be most useful..

Edited by franpa, 11 June 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[Mitchfork]

Stop calling it the Beyblade. It's the Spinner. English language names are not inferior by nature. And might I point out that I have a minor in Japanese, and yet I still say that.

I wasn't aware that its Japanese name was the Beyblade. It just... looks like a Beyblade.

I didn't like the Ball and Chain. It was too cumbersome and wasn't necessary for anything except the few ice enemies you encountered. It's cool that they tried something that hadn't been done in Zelda before, but I would have preferred either a different implementation or a different item.

[ShadowTiger]

I used the ball and chain item a lot in Twilight Princess, to be honest. It was exactly as described - a cheap way to preserve ammo. I'd bring it out for a quick burst of firepower when I had an opening, then put it back and rely on my sword and shield when I needed to block an attack and swing quickly. Most of the time, it was never out for more than 3 seconds at a time.

[Hawkmask20]

I heardthat myamoto is going to abolish Zelda forever if this isn't the greatest Zelda game of all time is this legit?

[Shane]

Not likely, he has no power to do that. Only nintendo, as a whole can. So we are safe to say Zelda won't stop there.

[Radien]

I wasn't aware that its Japanese name was the Beyblade. It just... looks like a Beyblade.

I have to admit I just assumed it was the Japanese name seeing how franpa swapped names so freely.

I didn't like the Ball and Chain. It was too cumbersome and wasn't necessary for anything except the few ice enemies you encountered. It's cool that they tried something that hadn't been done in Zelda before, but I would have preferred either a different implementation or a different item.

I would agree that if the Ball and Chain were brought back, it would be better to make it a little less cumbersome -- preferably not bulkier than the Skull Hammer in WW. But I still liked it in TP.

Use arrows, sword, hookshot or slingshot etc. numerous ways to kill stuff significantly more efficiently and you never run out of ammo unless your terrible or intentionally avoiding using Z-Targeting.

You encounter such ice enemies in one dungeon and maybe once or twice in a tiny cave located somewhere in the overworld with the cave requiring you to kill all enemies to reveal a ghost/heart piece. Barely useful outside of the dungeon considering how many better methods of killing stuff are available to you.

How carefully you want to conserve your ammo is more a matter of personal preference than determining a clear "best" strategy.

When you are out of range of an enemies attacks, there's nothing wrong with attempting to use a less accurate attack in order to conserve ammo. Also, arrows and the Clawshot do nothing against the ice warriors. Bomb arrows work, but you have to use up two bombs and two arrows per ice warrior to take them out completely. And THAT'S only if you don't miss (they try to run away and regroup after the first hit). All that considered, unless you are doing a timed speed run, it is WELL worth attempting to use the Ball and Chain whenever you have a clear shot.

Also: while its true that those ice warriors are concentrated one dungeon (AND don't forget the Cave of Ordeals), I'd say they are without a doubt the most dangerous enemies in the game. (Well, aside from Darknuts... but those almost always appear in smaller numbers.)

Additionally, don't forget those blizzard-spewing chunks of ice and the little sliding ice blocks that they split into (I really need to look up some enemy names here, but I don't feel like it right now). Basically, the Ball and Chain works well against anything frozen. True, such enemies mainly only appear in the ice dungeon, some overworld caves, and the Cave of Ordeals, but "items that are mostly only useful in the dungeons where you find them" is a problem that prevailed through MOST of Twilight Princess. It has more to do with the game design philosophy than the nature of the individual items. I guarantee you, if Nintendo put their minds to it, they would have NO difficulty making the Ball and Chain useful in every single dungeon after you acquire it.

I can only remember 2 places in the overworld for using the beyblade, one was to get a heart piece while the other was south or west of castle town where Tabatha sometimes appears, you use it to get a orange rupee. You might also use it one or 2 other places but without tracks it is 100% useless.

Agreed: there are not enough tracks.

But if you think it is 100% useless without tracks, try this:

In the Light Temple, you know those areas where a bunch of Ghoma larvae attack you at once? Try using the Spinner and hitting the A button repeatedly. If your back is turned, they will rush you. Since Link doesn't necessarily face the direction he is moving while on the Spinner, they will run right at you head-on, directly into the Spinner blades. It is a VERY quick way to kill them without using a single piece of ammo.

You talk about efficiency, but I think you aren't being creative enough. This method is QUICKER than the Clawshot or anything that uses ammo. (Although I use all of the available methods in turn, depending on where I encounter them and how many there are)

I used the ball and chain item a lot in Twilight Princess, to be honest. It was exactly as described - a cheap way to preserve ammo. I'd bring it out for a quick burst of firepower when I had an opening, then put it back and rely on my sword and shield when I needed to block an attack and swing quickly. Most of the time, it was never out for more than 3 seconds at a time.

This is a good point. Sure you move really slowly when you have it out, but it's the same limitation the Biggoron Sword had in OoT (except with the Ball and Chain you get a free shield while it's out).

It only takes about half a second after you press the button to take it out and throw it. So wait for an opening, let it fly, and then immediately switch back to another item.

I heardthat myamoto is going to abolish Zelda forever if this isn't the greatest Zelda game of all time is this legit?

As a rumor, no, it isn't legit, because it isn't correctly quoting what he said. You can watch it in a video yourself if you want to look up the E3 Zelda presentations.

But in short, Miyamoto told his staff that they need to make sure that this is the best Zelda game ever made or "maybe there won't be any more Zeldas." (rough quote) He did not THREATEN anything, he merely warned them.

Note: this warning means more in Japan, where Zelda isn't as popular as it is overseas. While it seems ludicrous to us to imagine Nintendo halting the Zelda series, keep in mind that the series has mostly been kept alive for the Western audiences, particularly the titles with more realistic graphical styles (TP, SS). Japan prefers the cuter "toon" Link games, which is why they went to handheld (handhelds being more popular in Japan).


So anyway... TL;DR:

No. Miyamoto did not threaten to abolish Zelda. He merely warned his staff that they need to do their very best if they want Zelda to continue to be a successful series.

[Moonbread]

But if you think it is 100% useless without tracks, try this:

In the Light Temple, you know those areas where a bunch of Ghoma larvae attack you at once? Try using the Spinner and hitting the A button repeatedly. If your back is turned, they will rush you. Since Link doesn't necessarily face the direction he is moving while on the Spinner, they will run right at you head-on, directly into the Spinner blades. It is a VERY quick way to kill them without using a single piece of ammo.

Haha, I just always used the BALL AND CHAIN to take out like 20 at once. Boy I'm pretty subtle on "useless" items.

I'm hoping they'll bring in some kind of new "heavy" weapon, honestly. I wouldn't mind the return of the ball and chain merely because its range well makes up for how weighty it is, but I'm tired of hammers, and they're not really my style (yes, I can have a style in Zelda, and it's called quick and efficient). I'm wondering if a few items from OoT will make a return though, considering we have a prequel on our hands.

[LinktheMaster]

No. Miyamoto did not threaten to abolish Zelda. He merely warned his staff that they need to do their very best if they want Zelda to continue to be a successful series.

This worries me a lot. Because Zelda is still really successful in America, it just doesn't sell that well in Japan. I would hate for Nintendo to stop the series just because bad Japanese sales.

Anyway, I haven't been this excited for a game in ages. Skyward Sword just looks fun, and it's a really pretty game despite not being HD and having anti-aliasing. I really can't wait until this December!

[Mitchfork]

This worries me a lot. Because Zelda is still really successful in America, it just doesn't sell that well in Japan. I would hate for Nintendo to stop the series just because bad Japanese sales.

Yes, the Japanese numbers for Twilight Princess weren't that impressive at launch. Still, I think that Nintendo still sees Zelda as one of its flagship franchises, and it hasn't done financially poorly by any stretch. By now, surely Nintendo sees that its market is global and low sales in solely one region shouldn't justify the conclusion of a franchise (although in the 90's, that might be the case).

I think the biggest hurdle that Twilight Princess had to overcome was the explosion of the casual market around the Wii in Japan. Remember how scarce it was to find a Wii after its launch? A lot of the people that bought the console at its launch (when Twilight Princess was released) were in the "casual" crowd that was not necessarily interested in a story-driven adventure game; they bought a Wii for games like "Just Dance" and "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games" (which are the 18th and 11th best-selling Wii games at the time of this writing). I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who had been Zelda fans jumped ship to Sony or Microsoft to avoid this. Maybe now that this generation of consoles has been around for a while, more of the old guard will have a Wii and make Skyward Sword more successful, but that's just speculation. In any case, I'll be doing my part to make it successful stateside.

[MoscowModder]

This worries me a lot. Because Zelda is still really successful in America, it just doesn't sell that well in Japan. I would hate for Nintendo to stop the series just because bad Japanese sales. icon_unsettled.gif

I know! They can make it US-only! Sweet revenge!I know yhat would never work, but it would be fun.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Yeah, guys, no need to worry about Zelda going away anytime soon. Nintendo's already begun planning on a new title (Possibly for the Wii U, don't have any details other than "planning has begun") so yeah.

The franchise is one of their biggest, regardless of sales in Japan. The Zelda games sells like hot bread in all other parts of the world (more or less), so while I'm not certain about the exact numbers in Japan, it's still earning them one heck of a profit

[AgentLym]

I'm not worried about Zelda leaving, really. But that's not why I post here...

I post here to share this video from ZeldaInformer that shows off the music and sound effects, and I wish to know what you guys think! It's a German video, so I skipped all the flousen-housen doogen-floogen at the beginning. It DOES contain minor spoilers (nothing new, though), such as little story elements before and after the Flying and Ghirahim demos.

http://www.youtube.c...FP2ijdAg#at=161

Also, I HAVE to point out my favorite piece of music from this entire video, which starts HERE and ends at 6:00. It's a beautiful little piece, and if it turns out to be Zelda's Theme, I'd be extremely satisfied (there's a tiny bit of spoilers here, but nothing to ruin the fun of the game, in my opinion). The interaction between Zelda and Link has also cemented its place among my favorite moments in all of Zelda, therefore I believe it's worth watching just because of that.

Edited by AgentLym, 13 June 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[Jared]

Wow, that scene with Link and Zelda was wonderful!
I wonder what happens if you don't call the bird though...

[Sheik]

So, I wonder what realse in the holiday season actually means. Are they talking about the summer holidays or are they talking about december? I haven't read that much on the matter and I'm really too lazy to research it since I bet some one of you knows it anyways. So? =)