832 replies to this topic

[LinktheMaster]

What do you mean by that?

In that it's starting to feel that some parts of the game are being sort of rushed out a bit sooner than they should be, and it might result in it being one of the more buggy games like Ruby/Sapphire.

[Koh]

It is kind of true...when you compare Ruby/Sapphire to Emerald, they really don't hold up in terms of quality.  Sure, same region with updates, but the engine was also polished a bit more, as well as sped up for Emerald.

Edited by Koh, 18 September 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[Nicholas Steel]

The lack of 3D lets them focus on reasonable artwork/graphical style instead of gimmicky looking stuff when not viewed in 3D. Kinda like how movies made in 3D tend to feature gimmicky crap just to shout out that the movie has 3D.

[Russ]

The difference here is that it's a first party, huge game being released on a system specifically designed for 3D. It may be gimmicky, but having quite possible the biggest game being pushed out by the company who made the gimmick not have the gimmick on a system designed especially for that gimmick just comes off as very lazy.

[Koh]

You can take that argument and claim other games are lazy when they aren't.  SNES' major feature was Mode 7, but not every game used it.  Not all Wii games, for example, used Motion Control, which was its gimmick, and didn't require it either, yet many were still good games.  Not all DS games used the touch screen for touching either, or at least for anything significant, like Puyo Puyo.  The only thing it used that for were menus, if you even bothered with that.  The rest was D-Pad and Buttons.  Just because it's there doesn't mean it needs to be used.

Edited by Koh, 19 September 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[DCEnygma]

Though the 3D feature gives me a killer headache I also have to agree that a lack of support for the feature makes no sense to me. However, I'm confused as to why the 3D would ever cause a framerate issue. I just don't understand that. If I'm not mistaken, isn't the 3D effect captured by having two screens overlayed under the display? If so, I can't even fathom how that would affect game performance since all that should be happening is the image is being displayed twice. I haven't heard of a single game yet that has experienced any lag issues by doing that. The only reason I can think of for this decision is that Nintendo knows kids are going to be playing this game and may have taken focus off the 3D for that purpose, but even that would surprise me.

 

Overall, this is based on a report from a demonstration of the game. I'll wait and see what news comes out closer to launch next month.

 

 

You can take that argument and claim other games are lazy when they aren't.  SNES' major feature was Mode 7, but not every game used it.  Not all Wii games, for example, used Motion Control, which was its gimmick, and didn't require it either, yet many were still good games.  Not all DS games used the touch screen for touching either, or at least for anything significant, like Puyo Puyo.  The only thing it used that for were menus, if you even bothered with that.  The rest was D-Pad and Buttons.

 

SNES was not sold on being "Mode 7". It was sold on being a 16-bit entertainment system. This would be closer to if Nintendo released a major 1st party game on the SNES with graphics comparable to Super Mario Bros 3. It might be good, but you're note using the system's advertised functions you sold us on, which comes across as lazy. Nintendo typically has actually done a great job of showcasing the features of its system with its first party games. To suddenly not seems surprising.

[Koh]

But they've already released plenty of games using the 3D feature, and are yet releasing more.  Again, you can't expect EVERY GAME, first party or not, to use it.  

 

I can take an educated guess why it'd cause lag.  Two images to create a 3D effect.  In code, that would translate to drawing the image on two separate surfaces, because after all, one surface would need to lack the landscape, such as the grass, since THAT isn't supposed to be in your face.  Just things that are specifically supposed to pop out drawn on a separate surface.  That's at least double the draw calls right there.

[DCEnygma]

But they've already released plenty of games using the 3D feature, and are yet releasing more.  Again, you can't expect EVERY GAME, first party or not, to use it.  

 

I can take an educated guess why it'd cause lag.  Two images to create a 3D effect.  In code, that would translate to drawing the image on two separate surfaces, because after all, one surface would need to lack the landscape, such as the grass, since THAT isn't supposed to be in your face.  Just things that are specifically supposed to pop out drawn on a separate surface.  That's at least double the draw calls right there.

 

Actually, I can expect that. I have every right to expect that. Funny thing is that expectations can be set at any whim by any individual. I can also expect them to pay me for their games instead of me paying them, no matter how ridiculous it is. I'm allowed to have whichever expectations I want. You don't want people upset/frustrated that you aren't using the features of your system to their capacity? Don't advertise them as primary features of your system. Done. Simple.

 

As to your suggestion to 3D causes lag, that still doesn't explain why I can't find a single article about any other game having a framerate issue when using the 3D features. I'd be absolutely shocked if Pokemon X & Y is the only game that couldn't figure out a way to implement this without causing some kind of lag. Maybe there are others, but I couldn't find any cases of it.

[Koh]

Just because you have the choice and ability to do something, that doesn't mean you should. Come on, that's one of the first things you learn as a kid~ You have the option to place your hand on a sizzling stove, but you must be prepared for the pain afterwards. In the case of games, if you go in expecting something that was never stated to be added in, only to find out you aren't getting it, you're ultimately preparing yourself for disappointment. The 3DS' gimmick is the 3D effect, however Nintendo never claimed that all games would utilize it. Neither Nintendo nor GameFreak claimed Pokemon would use it either. The frustration I'm seeing around the internet is...well silly. It's not as if the game will suddenly cease to function or become a bad game from the lack of the gimmick.

Edited by Koh, 19 September 2013 - 07:04 AM.

[Nicholas Steel]

I can take an educated guess why it'd cause lag.  Two images to create a 3D effect.  In code, that would translate to drawing the image on two separate surfaces, because after all, one surface would need to lack the landscape, such as the grass, since THAT isn't supposed to be in your face.  Just things that are specifically supposed to pop out drawn on a separate surface.  That's at least double the draw calls right there.

It has the potential to double the work load on the video chip as it's essentially the same as 2 computer monitors connected to a single PC running a game spanned across them both, except the 2 screens are in this case overlapping each other (Amongst other stuff). It would take a fair bit of effort to ensure both screens together don't consume too many resources.

 

I believe this dual screen glasses free approach that Nintendo took also explains the lack of flicker and how they can retain 60FPS in 3D mode so long as great care is taken. 3D technology that requires glasses will, as far as I know, halve the frame rate (It alternates between frames instead of being able to show both frames simultaneously) so you need to double the refresh rate/base frame rate in order to keep things operating smooth to the eyes and is probably just as taxing on the system as the 3DS's approach.

Edited by franpa, 19 September 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[Dawnlight]

All I can say regarding this is don't be surprised if the 3DS's successor removes 3D altogether. It's not a big deal to me tbh. If it means that games will have a smooth framerate, that's perfectly fine to me. 

[SpacemanDan]

I'm on the boat of those who are kinda indifferent on the matter. I almost never used the 3D in the first place, so it's no real loss for me. :S

(Don't get me wrong, I see how it sucks for those who do enjoy it. I've just never been one to use it.)

[Lemon]

They should stop making new Pokemon. Trying to do a PokeRap nowadays would be a half hour affair. 

[LTTP]

Pokemon X/Y coming out in 16 days!!
First pokemon I am ever gona buy :3

I am getting Y, what are you ppl'z getting?

[Haylee]

Not sure which one I'm getting. Pretty sure it's X that I'm getting. :3 (Also, my brother's getting his 3DS when it comes out.)

Edited by Goriya, 25 September 2013 - 12:20 PM.