53 replies to this topic

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Sure there is. I can complain about not being able to play Mario Kart Wii online, the best version of Mario Kart.

Okay, but it's a stupid thing to complain about when the game is five years old. You can still play the game, you just can't take it online. If you have to play online, grab an emulator and do it that way. You're not entitled to a service which will cost a company money forever. If you go back and read your old manual, or check the terms of service you agreed to when you started using the console's online services, I'm absolutely certain you'll find that they reserve the right to do things like shutting down the servers once they feel they've served their purpose.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand you just want to play Mario Kart, but... I'm sorry, but this is how online games works. If you disagree with the practice so much, stop investing time in products that absolutely will be discontinued at one point in time.

[Aevin]

I understand they can't leave servers open forever, but it's frustrating they design games in a way that they'll be so heavily crippled without online features. For example, I keep running into this "dream world" problem where pokemon and abilities are now completely inaccessible. The GTS was my only hope. But now that's closing, too ...

 

I guess what's really bugging me isn't lack of online, but permanent missables. *grumble grumble get off my grass*

Edited by Aevin, 27 February 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Koh]

I personally think that while it's to be expected that the servers will be shut down eventually (which is why I turned my head to Pokemon Bank), they shouldn't be shut down until there IS an alternative/new one in place.  Until the new Smash Bros game came out, for example, they shouldn't shut off the servers of the previous game.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

This bothers me. Super Smash Bros. Brawl had a ton of people playing online, and so did the Pokemon games...so why are they on the list? 

Are you sure about this, though? I won't say anything for sure, because I haven't actually seen any numbers, but let's put it this way: Halo 2 has had more players online than Brawl could ever dream of, and that game does no longer have online servers up and running. It saw them cut a few years back, if I recall correctly. I refuse to believe that Brawl has seen the same traffic. Brawl shipped about 12 million units world wide in its lifetime, while Halo 2 has the lower number of about 8 million. But the thing is, most players of Halo 2 went online, and it's one of the most played games on Xbox Live in history. While I don't have actual numbers that back this up, I do believe it's safe to say that the 12 million units of Brawl were not all taken online.

 

Brawl is the kind of game best played with friends in the same room. The Brawl online experience never really was flawless enough to catch on with a big audience the same way Halo 2 did (I know this sounds crazy to Nintendo fans, but just because you love one thing a whole lot, does not mean the rest of the world does as well. This is very important to keep in mind when we're talking about these kinds of stuff).

 

The argument of "everyone I know still plays Mario Kart" doesn't work, because those people are within your own personal little group, and you do not represent the world wide audience of video game players. I know no one has actually used that argument in this thread, but I feel it's relevant. I'd be surprised if more than six million players brought their copy of Brawl online. Also, remember that when I said the game shipped 12 million units, that does not mean it sold all those units. That's just the units that was ordered by vendors.

 

Right now I cannot for the life of me find any numbers related to the amount of players who ever played Halo 2, and Nintendo infamously almost never reveal information like this, so as of right now there's no way I can be absolutely 100% certain that what I am saying here is correct, but I also wouldn't bet against it. Regardless of how many people who might at one point have played Brawl online, I think it's reasonable to assume that those numbers have dwindled heavily in the past few years.

[Russ]

I gotta agree with Koh. I understand servers can't stay up forever, but I would have at least held off on shutting down the servers until Smash Bros 4 and Mario Kart 8 are out. And Pokemon Black/White 2 aren't even two years old yet, so I can definitely understand the frustration people are having there.

[anikom15]

Okay, but it's a stupid thing to complain about when the game is five years old. You can still play the game, you just can't take it online. If you have to play online, grab an emulator and do it that way. You're not entitled to a service which will cost a company money forever. If you go back and read your old manual, or check the terms of service you agreed to when you started using the console's online services, I'm absolutely certain you'll find that they reserve the right to do things like shutting down the servers once they feel they've served their purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you just want to play Mario Kart, but... I'm sorry, but this is how online games works. If you disagree with the practice so much, stop investing time in products that absolutely will be discontinued at one point in time.

I'm the one who bought the game and can complain all I want about it. I'm not going to accept the status quo that game companies can just shut service down after a few years. That's too short of time, and other games on the list are even younger than Mario Kart. I'm gonna be much less interested in future online games from Nintendo. Running servers is not expensive, and arbitrarily shutting them down is stupid. They're doing it in an attempt to push people to upgrade. I say it's fallible, and as a consumer I'm not going to accept it. It's not a stupid thing to complain about. It's my money and my evaluation of whether that money was well spent or not. This decrements that evaluation, moreso for games that are more social and competitive like Pokémon.

[The Satellite]

I would have at least held off on shutting down the servers until Smash Bros 4 and Mario Kart 8 are out.

I don't think Mario Kart is as big a loss, since Mario Kart 7 is kind of a thing.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I'm the one who bought the game and can complain all I want about it. I'm not going to accept the status quo that game companies can just shut service down after a few years. That's too short of time, and other games on the list are even younger than Mario Kart. I'm gonna be much less interested in future online games from Nintendo. Running servers is not expensive, and arbitrarily shutting them down is stupid. They're doing it in an attempt to push people to upgrade. I say it's fallible, and as a consumer I'm not going to accept it. It's not a stupid thing to complain about. It's my money and my evaluation of whether that money was well spent or not. This decrements that evaluation, moreso for games that are more social and competitive like Pokémon.

You accepted it by accepting their terms of service. It's your fault if you didn't read them, but in your defense nobody does.

 

Listen, you either take online features with the expectation that they will one day be gone, or you go with singleplayer-only experiences. You can't have it all, it's not possible. It's not economically viable for companies to keep servers for games up forever. Five years is a long time when it comes to these kinds of things, especially considering the fact that we've moved on to two new consoles since then.

[thepsynergist]

I don't think Mario Kart is as big a loss, since Mario Kart 7 is kind of a thing.

Playing on a TV versus playing on a handheld are two totally different things.  Mario Kari Wii also plays differently than 7.  For one, there's bikes.  For two, you can play with up to four players locally without the need for a second console (and up to two on one console while playing online.)

 

I care more about the Pokemon Black2/White2 debacle, personally (2 years old and what not...)

Edited by thepsynergist, 27 February 2014 - 06:34 PM.

[nicklegends]

This change doesn't affect me because I don't play Wii games with online functionality anymore. The only game I used to play online was Brawl, but ever since my launch-day Wii broke and I got a replacement without GameCube ports, I haven't been as inclined to play. With that said, I can understand why this would be frustrating to those people who still do play online. I wish Nintendo would wait another year or so before pulling the plug, but it makes sense from their point of view if they want to encourage avid Wii gamers to upgrade to the Wii U.

[anikom15]

You accepted it by accepting their terms of service. It's your fault if you didn't read them, but in your defense nobody does.

Listen, you either take online features with the expectation that they will one day be gone, or you go with singleplayer-only experiences. You can't have it all, it's not possible. It's not economically viable for companies to keep servers for games up forever. Five years is a long time when it comes to these kinds of things, especially considering the fact that we've moved on to two new consoles since then.

Terms of Service are for liability. I am not saying they are liable. Terms of Service have nothing to do with mine own satisfaction.

This is a false dichotomy. I am not asking for the servers to stay on forever. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that the servers for Mario Kart Wii will stay on for a few years after Mario Kart Wii U. Mario Kart 7 is not a successor. First of all, it is on inferior hardware, second of all, it's not in a living room.

You still haven't given me a real reason as to why I can't complain. You ask, 'Why complain?' and I ask, 'Why not complain?' I think a company has an obligation to support their products for as long as possible. It's a philosophy that I strongly believe because I consider software to be scientific evidence. If a company doesn't have the resources to maintain a server for online applications, it should make server software available. (For clarity, I only think this all necessary for public software.) Obviously, we have differing philosophies. That doesn't mean I don't have any reason to complain just because you have no reason to complain yourself.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Terms of Service are for liability. I am not saying they are liable. Terms of Service have nothing to do with mine own satisfaction.

This is a false dichotomy. I am not asking for the servers to stay on forever. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that the servers for Mario Kart Wii will stay on for a few years after Mario Kart Wii U. Mario Kart 7 is not a successor. First of all, it is on inferior hardware, second of all, it's not in a living room.

You still haven't given me a real reason as to why I can't complain. You ask, 'Why complain?' and I ask, 'Why not complain?' I think a company has an obligation to support their products for as long as possible. It's a philosophy that I strongly believe because I consider software to be scientific evidence. If a company doesn't have the resources to maintain a server for online applications, it should make server software available. (For clarity, I only think this all necessary for public software.) Obviously, we have differing philosophies. That doesn't mean I don't have any reason to complain just because you have no reason to complain yourself.

I've given you plenty of reasons, you just happen to disagree with them. Again, like I said, if you don't like it, don't invest yourself in games with online functionality unless you're willing to accept that the features are eventually going to be taken down. Even if that happens sooner than you'd like.

 

I would completely agree had it been taken down a year or two after release, but five years is more than a lot of online games gets to stay on, believe it or not.  You're free to complain all you'd like, but there's so much to complain about when it comes to Nintendo that it makes this little thing is 100% irrelevant.

[anikom15]

I've given you plenty of reasons, you just happen to disagree with them. Again, like I said, if you don't like it, don't invest yourself in games with online functionality unless you're willing to accept that the features are eventually going to be taken down. Even if that happens sooner than you'd like.

 

I would completely agree had it been taken down a year or two after release, but five years is more than a lot of online games gets to stay on, believe it or not.  You're free to complain all you'd like, but there's so much to complain about when it comes to Nintendo that it makes this little thing is 100% irrelevant.

 

I disagree. You shouldn't postulate what ought and what oughtn't to be complained about. There are a lot of things that people complain about that I don't complain about, but that doesn't diminish their own complaint! You can say, 'I don't see this as a bad thing,' or 'I think they are justified in their decision,' but you oughtn't say 'You shouldn't complain! You should've thought about this all when you bought the game and accepted their Terms of Service /snark /inappropriate_smiley /logical_fallacy /snark'

[Zeldaman23]

Ok you two.  That is enough for argue.   This is all about Nintendo will disconnect for mostly online game.

[anikom15]

It's too bad.