1641 replies to this topic

[Air Luigi]

I have mixed feelings with this game. On one hand, Zelda backs to his roots (Z1), and non-linearity will be a thing, that's the good part. On another hand, I'm afraid that this could be another empty sandbox like the western counterparts...

Z1 works because is a little thing, with great balance of difficulty and secrets everywhere. Pulling this in a super big 3D world isn't a easy task... Polishing this thing, is something that should take many years, years that Nintendo doesn't have... They weren't capable to polish Skyward Sword (a "world" with only 4 disconnected zones), so I have doubts that they can polish enough this game for the release. And that can lead to a load of boring fetch quests... We will see.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

I have mixed feelings with this game. On one hand, Zelda backs to his roots (Z1), and non-linearity will be a thing, that's the good part. On another hand, I'm afraid that this could be another empty sandbox like the western counterparts...

Z1 works because is a little thing, with great balance of difficulty and secrets everywhere. Pulling this in a super big 3D world isn't a easy task... Polishing this thing, is something that should take many years, years that Nintendo doesn't have... They weren't capable to polish Skyward Sword (a "world" with only 4 disconnected zones), so I have doubts that they can polish enough this game for the release. And that can lead to a load of boring fetch quests... We will see.

A lot of open world games developed in the west has more side content than any Zelda game to date. The latest GTA for example is so full of content, unique content at that, that you´ll be stuck in that world for weeks if you´re looking to 100% it. And we´re talking fully fleshed out side missions, hundreds of hours of extra content besides the main story missions (which there are almost 70 of). GTA is one example, and it´s probably the best, but even if you just look at games that came out the last couple of months, you have Assassin´s Creed Unity, which despite its maaany flaws is so full of content that you can literally not make out the map until you´ve cleared a lot of those missions and activities. Far Cry 4 is another open world sandbox game that´s got you covered with content. Then there´s the upcoming The Witcher 3, which if the developers are to be believed (and you will if you play their other games), it´s going to be one of the biggest games ever made, and it´s all about letting you do what you want when you want.

 

Just saying.

[Air Luigi]

I'm speaking about the QUALITY of side content, not the quantity

 

And no, western sandbox aren't my thing. 

 

Btw, the last Zelda with good side content was Wind Waker, imo.

[Maleboocado]

This is not about raw amount of content in a open, vast world.

This is about how meaningful and hard to find the content is, and how you treat the world to achieve it.

Look at Minecraft. Usually there's no map or clock. How do you examine the world, and create a mental image of it? By going through the dangerous, wild caves, by climbing that high, respectful mountain, by walking and running unexplored green lands.

Look at any other Zelda game. And now look at the first minute of the new Zelda U video.

Edited by Maleboocado, 06 December 2014 - 07:08 PM.

[Eddard McHorn Van-Schnuder]

Random question time: other than what we´ve seen in the videos, have they announced or spoken about what kinds of items we might expect to see in the game? Knowing that would make it a bit easier to have an idea of where they´re going when it comes to exploration and progression.

I'm speaking about the QUALITY of side content, not the quantity

 

And no, western sandbox aren't my thing. 

 

Btw, the last Zelda with good side content was Wind Waker, imo.

Right. I updated my post and it counters your point right there. You just said that games with an open world developed in the west isn't your thing (which in and of itself I find a bit weird, I mean, it´s not like those games are all the same, unless you´re talking about Ubisoft games in which case I would completely agree), and that´s fine, that´s your subjective opinion.

 

That said, you might not enjoy GTA, but to say that its content is not filled to the brim with quality, or anything less than that is wrong, because there is more quality in those games than most games developed period. That said, it is completely fair to say that it´s not your thing, but that does´t reduce the objective quality of the work that was put into it. Obviously I can´t argue against a subjective opinion, but it does not sound like you´re the kind of guy who would be willing to step out of your comfort zone when it comes to games (obviously an assumption on my end), and unless you´ve actually played GTA and you can argue for as to why you think the quality of the side missions is less than favorable, I´d love to hear your thoughts.

 

To be fair though, Grand Theft Auto is sort of an end all example. There´s a reason it´s the best selling entertainment product in the history of entertainment (not a joke, look it up), and there´s a reason it´s got universal critical acclaim. I would not be willing to defend Assassin´s Creed Unity in the same context, for example. That game clearly likes quantity over quality.

[MarinaraSauce]

The main reward for completing the dungeon and defeating the boss should be having being able to complete the dungeon and progress with the adventure. Health containers after bosses are therefore redundant.

That's how I view it.

I feel quite the opposite way. If the only thing you get from finishing a dungeon is story progression and no loot or anything, then the player wouldn't have nearly enough incentive to complete it. In the words of Egotaptor, the game would just be "roadblocks that you need to clear to get to the next roadblock".

[Maleboocado]

You can still get new items to open some few (few! the world should be open!) paths or discover new secrets, so your knowledge of the world is gonna change everytime. That's a grest incentive for me. So Zelda U's items should be new, fresh and deep. They should be a natural extension of the player's abilities and resources. The hero's bow in the 3D Zeldas, for example, is not a natural extension. It's just a weightless, deepless, soulless external item, with a completely mechanical use and purpose. Here's the switch, use the bow. You learn a few things about how to use it the first time you use it, and then you never came back to the studying of how to use a bow. I'm pretty sure that had I have a bow in our real world I would need hours and hours to learn all the tricks and advance stuff, and then I would use it for purposeless ways. Zelda can achieve that.

I think the problem comes with the mentality of always expecting to find/being rewarded with something, and when there's nothing, we want to quit the game. It's some sort of entitlement. I'm playing the game, gimmegimmegimme. Well, it turns out reality does not work that way. Reality is dangerous. It's wild, meaningless, purposeless. You fight for your survival, you create friendships and webs, you have rivalities. Sometimes you're put against your will in a front. People hate you, for any reason.

I never open a book hoping the author will reveal everything for me, I never watch a movie hoping the director and actresses are going to make it clear all the tricks and themes and stuff they used/want to achieve. Why Hyrule should open its rules to my desires, it is something I currently don't understand. But I know this mentality, I certainly had it, and I still sometimes have it.

Zelda is the hero's quest. The hero crosses a world. A world is not for you.
Zelda 1's wild world was already conquered by the enemy forces. It was up to you to fight for everybody, not just to save your ass.

How hard Zelda U should be, I cannot give an answe. People have different skills, abilities. Everybody have learned different values, everybody have lived different experiences - good and bad -. Not everybody is in the same part of the functional spectrum. So, as I said, I cannot say how "hard" it should be.

I'm gonna step back from this topic, as I believe I'm already taking too much space.

[Nicholas Steel]

I wouldn't mind it if completing dungeons earned you Heart Container Pieces instead of Whole Heart Containers. In fact, just do away with whole heart containers entirely. I'm hoping Nintendo will greatly expand upon the item gathering/equipment upgrading stuff we saw in Skyward Sword.

 

I still don't see how this is like Skyrim, they have huge open worlds and dungeons, that's about the only similarity and yeah I'm leaning more towards Darksiders II and Shadow of the Colossus for this game, that's the vibe I'm getting. Maybe also Dragon's Dogma for at least the overworld.

Edited by franpa, 07 December 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[Anthus]

All we have is one short video. A lot of what we saw might change, or not even be in the game at all. I dunno, but there's been times in the past where we will see stuff that is not in the final game, or close to it at all. Either way, I doubt Nintendo is going to say anything about this until after MM 3D comes out, which gives them nearly a year to do all kinds of stuff. If the world we saw is really that big, then we know these guys can pump out the content, and assets, and hopefully make them interesting. I think they will find ways to make them interesting, since SS showed some really creative dungeon ideas so we know the potential is there. I suspect there will be a new alternate way to travel around such a huge world too. I am really excited to see where this goes though, cause it does look really promising.

 

EDIT: Just for the record, Ubi-Soft is not "western" at all. They are based out of France.

[Shane]

Skyward Sword's linear gameplay and heavy story telling? Come on guys, admit it, they are totally copying Final Fantasy XIII there.

 
But seriously, for me, I am not expecting or looking for ground breaking innovation in this title, I knew this for a while because they kept stressing they were going back to basics with the franchise. But still, I think an open world is refreshing for the Zelda series, regardless if they "copied" another game. I like to think what they are mainly focusing on in the overworld is to make traveling diverse and easy for the player, and most importantly, entertaining. Having something in every patch of land would make traveling feel more slow, so I wouldn't mind empty bits of land every now and then. Areas like Hyrule Field were made for simple transition, so the game doesn't feel bloated. I like to think this will be a re-imaging of the first Zelda where you hunt down the dungeons (seen in the video), tackle enemies big and small (also seen in the video, and E3 trailer) and find occasional secrets. And since we're in the era where side-quests are common in Zelda, we can expect maybe a lot from that regard, right?

 

But hey, that's just me, I guess.

[The Satellite]

Besides, Skyrim basically copied Zelda 1.

[Russ]

EDIT: Just for the record, Ubi-Soft is not "western" at all. They are based out of France.

France is still considered western, as is most of Europe, because of the shared "western" culture. This is as opposed to eastern countries like China or Japan, and Middle Eastern countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel.

[Old-Skool]

At this point we dont know if this is the whole map or not, just that It has been zoomed out a lot.  I would like to immediately point out however the existence of an East coast in this game, something I have not seen in 25 years.   A Good portion of the map also greatly resembles Labrynna to me

Edited by King Aquamentus, 07 December 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Anthus]

France is still considered western, as is most of Europe, because of the shared "western" culture. This is as opposed to eastern countries like China or Japan, and Middle Eastern countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel.

 

I didn't really think about it that way,

 

That is a interesting image though, KingAquamentus. I too wonder if it is the whole map. Where did you find that image, btw? Are there any more like it? It kind of reminds me slightly of Zelda 2's map, in layout.

[Shane]

The map zooms out further.