Reminder to please specify what the level actually is, not the number of the level. I don't go by numbers, and it gets confusing to me. The images really help, but the level numbers are actually a step in the opposite direction. It's like referring to people by their social security number. Not sure why anyone would ever really do that.
Anyway, made an image describing how to reach the Red Mail. Like I said, it can actually be done within a single minute or two of going into the Clockwork Volcano for the very first time. All you need is the Hookshot and the ladder, which we all already will have.
I'm supposed to use the Ladder to cross onto a different screen, something that would be considered a glitch in any other quest? There isn't even any hint to it, and since you don't get to see the other screen, you'd have no reason to think using the Ladder there would do any good!
...We need to do something about this. Something to hint toward it, or create another way over there and block off that gap, or...something.
Okay...hopefully I'm done venting. I got a freaking ton of screenshots yesterday before calamity fell. Here's the first half.
Only one in the overworld...
*isn't
...and it's pretty simple.
Here comes the long part. Get ready for a whole lot of brown mountains, dark brown soil, and peach-colored lava. >_>
The enemies always seem to spawn right there when you enter this screen from the west, and they all get stuck.
A rare three part transition error. I have no idea what's going on with those green and blue tiles in the first shot. >_>
A more typical transition error.
Uh...what's that supposed to be all over the right side?
If an enemy spawns on this screen where the bird is here, they're stuck.
Meanwhile, in the caves...
All kinds of strangeness here. Don't without an apostrophe twice, no comma between you and either, and...what enemy is he talking about? The Ultros lookalikes elsewhere in the caves? The fire elementals in the dungeon? Is that name right? Is it supposed to be Lava Blobs? Lava Bubbles, as in the Mario enemy?
The grass-rock border here is missing a corner. It's under the block normally, so it's under combo-based, but nothing some layering can't get around.
Elsewhere, the floor borders don't exist on the spaces where a Myu sits. Can't think of an easy solution to this one, outside of putting a damaging tile with a border on Layer 0 and the Myu on Layer 2.
Link doesn't hold up the Super Bomb on this screen.
Falling from the room above places you onto a block. Normally it'd be a transition error, except being on an NES Dungeon screen makes Link move down a space before the player regains control. So instead, he falls onto a Myu. There's only one pit combo in the room above, and it's the only way out of that part of the caves, so it feels like a cheap shot.
The chest here is using the push block under combo.
Link doesn't hold up the Rupee in this room.
I tried to keep these in rough chronological order, so back above ground again.
The top of the lavafalls don't quite line up with lava-land borders next to them.
That weird tile is also still there from before...but now you can Hookshot over it. Are they on a layer?
Another transition error.
More enemies spawning somewhere where they can get stuck.
Two missing periods in the same cutscene.
When the cutscene on this screen ends, Link walks out of the cave. Yet another victim of the original only have one warp return point to work with.
Two more from the caves.
Another missing border, thanks to an under combo.
Is this path supposed to be one-way? Because if you stand at just the right spot, you can actually get out of the octopus blockade here and take the north exit.
That's a little over half. Sorry in advance for the double post coming up. Blame the board's image limits. >_>
Reminder to please specify what the level actually is, not the number of the level. I don't go by numbers, and it gets confusing to me. The images really help, but the level numbers are actually a step in the opposite direction. It's like referring to people by their social security number. Not sure why anyone would ever really do that.
Force of habit, I guess. So many quests give their dungeons level numbers, you get used to calling them that. I guess it's also done to avoid spoilers, since "Level 5" gives less away about the dungeon than "Sleetstone Caverns". >_>
But since I'm posting screenshots anyway, it isn't doing much good, is it?
Level 7, Clockwork Volcano, Lower Norfair, whichever you call it, every single bug coming up is from it.
We start...with a random wall tile sitting on Layer 3 in the middle of nowhere. >_>
The upper wall here disappears for reasons that, as far as perspective goes, make no sense.
Elsewhere on the screen, the floor border is missing a corner.
This screen has a potential trap...a trap trap, not a Blade Trap. If you take the north conveyor over to where the skulls are, then try to get back, you gain ground at such a slow pace that every time the Blade Trap connects--which is pretty much guaranteed--you lose pretty much all the ground you gained.
*their
More Red Bubble shenanigans. Because of their presence on this room and in one room on the third floor, there's a change players could die while jinxed. Because of that, we need a few more Blue Bubbles wandering around other rooms.
The Gleeok palette is still doing...something.
And once you kill it, these random bits of yellow occasionally show up around the monitors and Goron.
This screen has no enemies...but based on the only door being a shutter, it's supposed to.
This tile, and the tile one space up and three to the left, don't have land-lava borders.
Another missing period.
The cutscene drops you off on the top half of this floor tile. This is somewhere you can't normally stand in an NES dungeon room, and the game won't let you go anywhere until you move down half a space.
Strangely enough, Link can walk on the top half of the open pipes. They're Stairs combos, so it seems unnecessary, as well as weird when they're usually on Layer 3.
Back to the conveyor belts. The right end of them is mirrored from the left side. It's another one of those things you can't stop seeing once you notice it.
For some reason, I'm getting a really weird Lens secret on this screen when I'm on the catwalk.
This pipe opening isn't even on Layer 3.
This Fire Darknut can appear in any walkable location on the screen. This includes a chance of putting it completely out of the way on the left and making it not do its job of guarding the north door, or a chance of giving people going for the key on the right a fight in very close quarters.
This lava tile is missing a border.
A transition error, thanks to the Ladder.
This pipe should be using one of those combos where the lava flows around the base of the pipe, like on the entrance screen.
Link doesn't hold up the potion here.
And finally...*drumroll*...having this progress-killing pain in the ass just be sitting there when you're on the catwalk makes no sense when you don't see it on the bottom floor. Either put it in a chest, or have it fall from the ceiling.
Okay...phew. For those who weren't keeping count (and I don't blame you), that was 48 screens. >_>
Notes:
-There are two different types of fire enemies in the volcano: the ones that act like Fire Wizzrobes, and the fully custom ones that shoot fireballs. Fighting them requires different strategy depending on which one it is, but right now they both look the exact same. Maybe you could color one of them red instead of orange? It's especially frustrating because one is hurt by the boomerang, the other is not, and I need to conserve arrows.
-Speaking of arrows, because the dungeon has two different enemies that are hard to kill without them, and because they drop at the same slow rate as always, it gets pretty easy to run out. Could you make the fire enemies drop arrows and maybe also magic at a higher than average rate?
-Is there really nothing I can do on B3 of the Excavation Site until I have the Mirror Shield? Nowhere else I can use the Relic Stones I find until then?
Quote
All kinds of strangeness here. Don't without an apostrophe twice, no comma between you and either, and...what enemy is he talking about? The Ultros lookalikes elsewhere in the caves? The fire elementals in the dungeon? Is that name right? Is it supposed to be Lava Blobs? Lava Bubbles, as in the Mario enemy?
Eh, that's what they're called, apparently, by those who live there. No biggie. It's not like we see them everywhere.
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Elsewhere, the floor borders don't exist on the spaces where a Myu sits. Can't think of an easy solution to this one, outside of putting a damaging tile with a border on Layer 0 and the Myu on Layer 2.
Pretty much. Made two new combos, slapped 'em under there... easy fix.
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Is this path supposed to be one-way? Because if you stand at just the right spot, you can actually get out of the octopus blockade here and take the north exit.
Good! That screen always gave me the willies because I don't know what the heck it's doing. Though apparently, if you step on the square left by the orange .. er .. Blurp, it'll warp you to a screen where you can go to the west and collect an HCP.
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Level 7, Clockwork Volcano, Lower Norfair, whichever you call it, every single bug coming up is from it.
Oh I think it's fairly safe to call it Lower Norfair. ... heh.
But man, ... I tells ya, if you knew just how insanely made this Clockwork Volcano was, you'd rip out your hair and wear a garbage can on your head for a week. I can't believe C got away with this as much as he did. It's like a surgeon patching you up with duct tape and a lollipop. Under the duct tape. Because it's sticky.
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And once you kill it, these random bits of yellow occasionally show up around the monitors and Goron.
Figured out what that was. Those spinies in the caves below actually occupy a 2x1 space of combos, extending only a few pixels into the combo to the left of the spiny, just so it won't get chopped off, animation-wise. That little extra combo was that.
That Gleeok thing is going to be a doozy, though. If Extra Sprite Cset 14 only affects the Gleeok, I can safely replace it, but otherwise, ... eeh..
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This Fire Darknut can appear in any walkable location on the screen. This includes a chance of putting it completely out of the way on the left and making it not do its job of guarding the north door, or a chance of giving people going for the key on the right a fight in very close quarters.
... and yet there's a flag #38 sitting right there in the middle of screen. Should be 37. Damn. O.o
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-There are two different types of fire enemies in the volcano: the ones that act like Fire Wizzrobes, and the fully custom ones that shoot fireballs. Fighting them requires different strategy depending on which one it is, but right now they both look the exact same. Maybe you could color one of them red instead of orange? It's especially frustrating because one is hurt by the boomerang, the other is not, and I need to conserve arrows.
True enough. Uses a different recolored sprite now.
Quote
-Speaking of arrows, because the dungeon has two different enemies that are hard to kill without them, and because they drop at the same slow rate as always, it gets pretty easy to run out. Could you make the fire enemies drop arrows and maybe also magic at a higher than average rate?
Sure.
Quote
-Is there really nothing I can do on B3 of the Excavation Site until I have the Mirror Shield? Nowhere else I can use the Relic Stones I find until then?
Thing is, the thing you get to the west or to the north make the game really easy. Too easy. MeleeWizard barely broke a sweat once he got those items, even in the end-game, which is supposed to be quite difficult, given how much health we can have at that point. It is, however, quite possible to go straight east and pick up something nice without the mirror shield. You just need the ladder.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're going to say "Getting this item this early makes the game way too easy" if I opened up that path.
Thing is, the thing you get to the west or to the north make the game really easy. Too easy. MeleeWizard barely broke a sweat once he got those items, even in the end-game, which is supposed to be quite difficult, given how much health we can have at that point. It is, however, quite possible to go straight east and pick up something nice without the mirror shield. You just need the ladder.
Ah. So all that's left is the Gold Mail and whatever the Level 3 boomerang is called. In that case, we really need a script that lets Link hold multiple Relic Stones.
What "something nice" is there? It couldn't be anything that involves killing enemies, because every room has at least a couple Mirror Wizzrobes.
Time to do a little catching up. I have two days' worth of shots ready, so there may or may not be a double post coming up later. This time I'm beginning with the new hidden area in Capitol Port that I've been calling the Master's Dojo for whatever reason. It turned out to be pretty easy to get to once I realized I was supposed to have been able to find it a while ago. >_>
Starting off, the bookcases are mirrored, and it shows.
The border of the symbol on the upper part of west-east facing doors is transparent instead of black. This was also the point where I realized the whole DMap uses the old minimap border.
I was a little late on the pickup for this one. The pound combo that originally sits at this spot turns into part of the rug when you hit it, instead of first turning into the lowered mole-thing, and then into the rug when you step on the triggers.
Strange room in general. Being an NES-dungeon room means this combo is automatically overlaid, and because the room walks you onto the block but not past it, if you backpedal fast enough you can leave the room.
Another one I was late on. During the cutscene in this room, the tile immediately below the door changes color.
This was also the point where I realized pretty much all the doors in the place are using a darker green than the rest of the walls.
Not being able to do much of anything at the Excavation Site didn't stop me from finding a few problems anyway.
...Such as realizing that you can actually cheat your way through this room and get to the locked door without needing the Mirror Shield.
There's also one spot here with a missing border.
And enemy shenanigans because of Z1's mechanics. This room normally has a pair of Manhandlas in it. I didn't manage to kill either of them before I got low on health, but I did kill a couple Windrobes.
When I went back to the room, the Manhandlas were gone, replaced by two more Windrobes. Weird.
Just a handful in the rest of the Waking World.
From what it looks like, all of the brown-bush-on-dirt combos are still Slash->Next instead of Bush->Next.
Some awkward English here.
Okay, so the conveyors are pointing in the direction they animate in. So why are they moving me south instead of north?
Moving on, a handful more from the Death Mountain area.
The lavafalls are animating correctly now...but, the animation doesn't line up with the tops of the falls, and the colors are still a little off.
Another transition error; this one lets Link walk onto a Hookshot point.
Another stuck enemy.
As it turns out, lava-ground borders are missing everywhere on this screen except for the back wall.
If a Dodongo spawns on the northwestern piece of land here, sometimes they glitch up after trying to turn right, and become invincible. I've seen it happen in a couple other quests, so it must be a ZC thing.
And a walkability issue (or maybe a combo type issue, actually) lets you place the Ladder over this plant.
This session ended with a little progress in Clockwork Volcano. Only a couple bugs here, but one is pretty major.
In this room, the far left of the conveyors are mirrored. Looks like which side got mirrored depends on which direction they're moving in.
(Puzzle Spoilers)
Spoiler
Okay, so having a random walkable spot on the corner of a screen was obscure as hell and arguably unfair. It's also bugged, because if you head north while you're half on land and half on the walkable lava space...
...You end up stuck in limbo on the adjacent screen.
And if you try to go back...
...You end up stuck on the Ladder here as well, making this the second transition error so far that is inescapable.
Another 20+ screenshots? Ho-hum. I think I'm getting a little too used to this. >_>
Note: these were all taken before the latest update, so some of it might've already been fixed.
And we begin this report with...only two screens before the dungeon? Huh.
See the two dirt combos immediately in front of Link? That entire row, from next to the cut bush to the edge of the screen, is inexplicably unwalkable.
Meanwhile, the screen with the glitchy Dodongo has more borderless magma.
As it turns out, the last stretch of Clockwork Volcano had about a third of the dungeon's bugs. Go figure.
Yet another missing border.
No enemies on this screen, and based on the shutter door, it wasn't on purpose.
So it's a cool idea, having the walls in this room turn away and making the entire northwest section be one big magma pool. But I'm (mostly) sure that the bordering rooms have walls encircling them. So where do the walls in this room go?
(Miniboss Spoilers)
Spoiler
If Link approaches the Boss Key from the south, he picks it up while still on the conveyor. By the time he stops holding it above his head, he's been dumped onto the damaging floor. It'd be avoidable if you made it so the conveyors shut down when you shut the machine down.
It might also help if there was a way to make the fireball shooters also stop, but that's more because it seems weird for the machine's defenses to keep working when the machine that powers it has been crippled.
(Boss Spoilers)
Spoiler
Cutscene typo. The ellipsis needs one more period.
*Let's
The damaging rocks seem to be on Layer 5 or 6, of all things. Is that intentional? They'd arguably make more sense on Layer 2...
*That's
A little bit of Death Mountain after that boss fight...and a very important cutscene.
Because this cave is right next to the ladder, you can enter it from the side.
(Plot Spoilers)
Spoiler
*its
I want to say it would look better if there was a comma between "weak" and "but".
*consequences
*nightmare
Also, I totally called that.
Why does "only" show up twice? One of them needs to be axed...preferably the first one, as long as the second one gets capitalized.
Both before and after the cutscene these random tiles are sitting here.
And finally, more enemies getting stuck in weird places, and a one-way shortcut that really ought to work both ways once you've opened it up from the north side, to give players a shorter walk to the dungeon entrance.
Yes, there are gonna be a lot more spoilers from here on out. >_>
Notes:
-You know how a couple of Link's walking sprites use a tunic color in part of his hat? So do the left and right facing slashing sprites.
-Seriously, if you're blocking off access to most of Excavation Site B3 until players have the Mirror Shield (rightfully so, with what's back there), we need to find a way to let Link carry multiple Relic Stones.
-Something kind of funny, actually: If you look at the orb switches on B3 with the Lens on, it shows a fireball reflecting off the Coated Shield instead of the Mirror Shield. I guess that one's because ZC is hardwired to show the Level 3 shield in those hints regardless of whether it's the Mirror Shield or not.
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Ah. So all that's left is the Gold Mail and whatever the Level 3 boomerang is called. In that case, we really need a script that lets Link hold multiple Relic Stones.
I agree so hard. We really need to find a way to do that. Just so it can have a game counter on the subscreen, and when it goes down when Link doesn't have the item if it's greater than zero, it subtracts one and gives him the item again. That'd be nice.
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What "something nice" is there? It couldn't be anything that involves killing enemies, because every room has at least a couple Mirror Wizzrobes.
Believe it or not, my directions to it were kinda literal. Just go straight east from the first room of B-3. Just keep going. In a straight line. Minus lava pools and whatnot of course. Bomb a wall, then walk through a wall.
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...Such as realizing that you can actually cheat your way through this room and get to the locked door without needing the Mirror Shield.
Hahaha, I'm actually laughing right now. Wow. I can disable the ladder there.
Quote
And enemy shenanigans because of Z1's mechanics. This room normally has a pair of Manhandlas in it. I didn't manage to kill either of them before I got low on health, but I did kill a couple Windrobes.
Gotcha. Before, the Mirror Robes were the last enemies in the list almost anywhere I looked. But that flies in the face of the requirement for having the Mirror Shield. I did make the Mirror robes weaker a while ago because they're annoying as hell, but an item requirement is still mandatory.
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In this room, the far left of the conveyors are mirrored. Looks like which side got mirrored depends on which direction they're moving in.
Those conveyors are a bit of a pain to fix, graphically. Maybe I'll get to it when it gets more complaints. Then again, while I was typing this, I managed to do some stupid little fix. Oddly complex, but happy it's functional. Okay.
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See the two dirt combos immediately in front of Link? That entire row, from next to the cut bush to the edge of the screen, is inexplicably unwalkable.
Yeah, that there is an unfortunate result of having to slide in combos. Either that or I dramatically misclicked. Sure, why not.
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No enemies on this screen, and based on the shutter door, it wasn't on purpose.
Probably not. But on that note, I reworked a scant few of the screens' enemies, and added another Blue Bubble on the screen where you arrive on F-3.
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So it's a cool idea, having the walls in this room turn away and making the entire northwest section be one big magma pool. But I'm (mostly) sure that the bordering rooms have walls encircling them. So where do the walls in this room go?
Right into a room with a cutscene. Damn it Jim. I'm a Doctor, not a movie producer. But I'll see what I can do.
... ... ... ... okay, I think that should do it. Not too bad.
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If Link approaches the Boss Key from the south, he picks it up while still on the conveyor. By the time he stops holding it above his head, he's been dumped onto the damaging floor. It'd be avoidable if you made it so the conveyors shut down when you shut the machine down.
It might also help if there was a way to make the fireball shooters also stop, but that's more because it seems weird for the machine's defenses to keep working when the machine that powers it has been crippled.
Agreed on the first one, and luckily, I feel like the machine is powering its own defenses. Anyway, I did a bit of fixing, and the Miniboss is more satisfying now, complete with miniboss music.
Quote
Both before and after the cutscene these random tiles are sitting here.
.. and what's the bug, exactly? O.o
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-Seriously, if you're blocking off access to most of Excavation Site B3 until players have the Mirror Shield (rightfully so, with what's back there), we need to find a way to let Link carry multiple Relic Stones.
Yes. Yes we do. Wish I was better at scripting. I actually tried this earlier, and met with failure. A few times, actually.
Quote
-Something kind of funny, actually: If you look at the orb switches on B3 with the Lens on, it shows a fireball reflecting off the Coated Shield instead of the Mirror Shield. I guess that one's because ZC is hardwired to show the Level 3 shield in those hints regardless of whether it's the Mirror Shield or not.
Heh. Yeah, it's also like that for the Reflected Magic flags. You could technically fix it by making the L3 shield a copy that looks like the Mirror Shield, and then have the Coated Shield at 4 and the actual Mirror Shield at 5.
But then everyone with a Coated Shield right now would end up with the dummy one. It'd have to wait until after we're done testing.
.. and what's the bug, exactly? O.o
It's a graphical one. Those two tiles don't seem to fit at all. Nothing major, but it's there.
On the homestretch now. This is where things are gonna get interesting.
I think that's supposed to be a fairy...at least, since the screen acts like a fairy pond. Even if it isn't, I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be a floating boomerang. >_>
And if you look closely, the lower right walls of the fortress are mirrored.
The enemies here always get stuck in that four tile area. Can you open up the low brush somehow?
The rest of this one involves me getting lost in the Cave of Mirrors. Get some popcorn ready. >_>
It'd go a long way if the magic multipliers turned into magic absorbers once you killed all the enemies in here.
This is supposed to be Floor B2, isn't it? The minimap says F1, but I went down a set of stairs to get here.
Borked secret combo here.
Why are there Ice Arrows in this chest? You need to have them to get to Sea Dog; it isn't like you can get this far without them.
Okay, this puzzle felt unfair. How is someone supposed to know there is exactly one space outside the ice that you can push a block on to?
On the other hand, if you cover that tile in ice, it makes the puzzle really easy...
Some strangeness here with the pushable mirror. Push it over either adjacent ice patch and it looks like the ice disappears under the floor.
The secret sound plays when you enter this screen...even though it isn't all that hidden.
...And Link doesn't hold up the item.
Duplicate Heart Pieces here, courtesy of the NPC.
This one's unusual. When you bomb the wall on the screen to the east, this wall doesn't become bombed out.
Finally, this chest has a floor under combo...
...and the secret combo for the orb switch is messed up.
Notes:
-Forgot to mention this one: I ended up with an extra key after clearing Clockwork Volcano. We could solve that and make getting the Red Mail a little more climactic if we put a key in the chest the Red Mail is currently in, then move the Red Mail to the room on the NW edge of the first floor where a key currently sits and put a lock on the door before it.
I think that's supposed to be a fairy...at least, since the screen acts like a fairy pond. Even if it isn't, I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be a floating boomerang. >_>
Yeah Tiles Page 1 is messed up. Had to replace it with some other sprites I found of a fairy.
And if you look closely, the lower right walls of the fortress are mirrored.
Oddly enough, it isn't a horizontally flipped combo. There actually is a tile for that in the tiles page.
This is supposed to be Floor B2, isn't it? The minimap says F1, but I went down a set of stairs to get here.
Due to Dmap schenanigans, I think it would be best to remove all instances of "stairs" and replace them with warps, and turn it all into a single floor. Not that it makes any physical difference.
Why are there Ice Arrows in this chest? You need to have them to get to Sea Dog; it isn't like you can get this far without them.
Old screen. It's rupee-time.
Okay, this puzzle felt unfair. How is someone supposed to know there is exactly one space outside the ice that you can push a block on to?
On the other hand, if you cover that tile in ice, it makes the puzzle really easy...
I think I may have fixed that by changing that corner of ice into an up-border piece. Looks like the block slides right off of it.
The secret sound plays when you enter this screen...even though it isn't all that hidden.
Mostly because it contains a lot of money. Either the secret sound can be removed, or the map screen can be removed off the map. ... or the way into the screen hidden under some layer. ... or or and. Whichever.
This one's unusual. When you bomb the wall on the screen to the east, this wall doesn't become bombed out.
That is unusual.
Also, all of the orbs in the Cave of Mirrors had that secret combo bug where it turns into a cave. Going to be interesting to go through them all.
-Forgot to mention this one: I ended up with an extra key after clearing Clockwork Volcano. We could solve that and make getting the Red Mail a little more climactic if we put a key in the chest the Red Mail is currently in, then move the Red Mail to the room on the NW edge of the first floor where a key currently sits and put a lock on the door before it.
Neat. Actually, it would also be possible to make it unlockable with a key. ... or even a boss key. What do you think?
-------------
EDIT: Something really, really, really weird and unfortunate is happening. Link is no longer able to scroll to the west from the screen north of this one. He uses his ladder, but the edge of the screen stops him. I didn't even do anything to cause that. Very interesting. O.o
Due to Dmap schenanigans, I think it would be best to remove all instances of "stairs" and replace them with warps, and turn it all into a single floor. Not that it makes any physical difference.
...But B1 has to be a basement floor. You fall down pits to get there. >_>
Neat. Actually, it would also be possible to make it unlockable with a key. ... or even a boss key. What do you think?
What do you mean by "it"? The door before the corner room? I dunno how much I like the idea of two different boss doors. It'd be potentially misleading. If you mean the chest itself, then it'd be the only locked chest in the entire game, and it'd stick out in a bad way.
Another two parter coming up. At least I'm almost done, right?
A single screenshot outside of the final dream world. I'm looking at some strange black outline on the upper part of the stairs. It only seems like it shows up after the screen stops scrolling. Is there an item back there?
And now we return to the maze that is the Cave of Mirrors.
Beginning with...a missing under combo.
A warp tile that, as I found out, wasn't supposed to have been active right when I walked in.
The corner of the upper wall here disappears under the lower wall.
Another case of the game not deciding how to handle the Wind Fish's title...
...And a duplicate key.
The boss fight went off without a hitch, surprisingly enough. This marks the first dungeon without boss spoilers since...the Dam? >_>
Meanwhile, back in the woods...
This medal doesn't have an item message. Neither does the other one, actually.
And here we have a transition error.
Onto the other minidungeon...and this one's just as bug-infested.
Link doesn't hold up the Map here.
The basement's minimap says it's the second floor. I'm pretty sure you can't go up a floor by falling into a pit. >_>
This little bit of water is missing a border.
So Link is holding the orange rupees above his head now. Cool. But why is he holding them with both hands when he's held everything else up with one?
The Manhandla 2 sprite is still using some questionable colors. Is it any clearer on a screen that isn't mostly blue like the Storm Tower?
Time for a whole lot of block puzzle bugs. With this one, the under combo overwrites any ground details and borders, and because there is no limit to where blocks can be pushed and because both doors are shuttered when you enter the room, you could technically get trapped in here. I dunno why the east door even needs to be shuttered, to be honest...
Meanwhile, you can get trapped in this room as well...
And in these two, the under combo also erases ground details.
I'd doublecheck the "dead" versions of the block puzzles, too. Probably the same issues.
Outside, the ground details on the upper floor are inconsistent. It's more noticeable when you're going between screens, like I was here.
*Don't
This might be one of the strangest bugs yet. Fall down this pit and you wind up in the basement...via a scrolling tile warp. >_>
(Boss Spoilers)
Spoiler
So you're supposed to hit one of the flowers with magic to make the main plant open up. But...how is the player supposed to know which to hit? If it comes down to random guessing, they could end up using all their magic power trying and failing to find the right target, and then have to endure a barrage of fireballs for even longer until their magic power starts to regenerate.
(lol, Spore Spawn)
And strangely enough, there aren't any fireballs on this screen.
Link doesn't hold the item here.
Why have another map here, when players will have to have picked one up in the other version of the room. Literally; it's on a space you have to touch to get to the door and go onward to the key past there.
Having a statue-based Patra is an unusual choice, the palette is an unusual choice, and the animation for the Mini-Patras are off. They're facing north when they should face south, and vice versa.
Another quick visit outside, and a transition error.
The room immediately north doesn't seem to exist, even though the map claims a room is there.
And we close with a strange enemy choice in the basement. The Stalfos 3 birds don't appear anywhere else in that version of the dungeon. Probably because of how ugly they look in the palette. >_>
Here's where things get really interesting. So much so that I don't want to spoil the location of the first few. >_>
(Plot Spoilers)
Spoiler
*didn't
*Don't
Enough typos that I don't even know how to restructure that sentence. >_>
Also very strange, putting the Peril Ring in this shop, as well as an item on the right that I don't even know the purpose of.
After the spoilers, I found myself in a cave system. That is all that needs to be said for now. >_>
You can see all of B1's map without ever finding a Dungeon Map.
The colors for the ground on these pound combos don't match up with the rest of the cave floor. I want to say it happens everywhere in here.
The door in this room is also a weird color. I want to say it doesn't happen elsewhere.
Once you get to this point of the caves, the minimap suddenly fills itself in.
(Boss Spoilers)
Spoiler
The back walls do some weird things when you hit them. I get that the secret flags are a red herring, but why does the wall turn all glitchy?
*don't
And after that I...found myself in Level 8. Eesh. This'll be fun.
You can actually see the map here before you pick up the Dungeon Map. It really ruins the ability to freak the player out when they pick it up and watch the entire minimap get filled in. >_>
Speaking of which, there's another map sitting in the same chest when the other set of blocks is up. Any way you could make it so when you pick one up, the other goes away? Can screen state carryovers do that?
This shop sells different things depending on which set of blocks is up. Is that intentional?
The under combo here goes over the yellow blocks, "erasing" them until you leave the screen and come back.
When you reach the rooms in the southeast corner of the main floor, the map disappears.
And finally...*drumroll*...more misleading conveyors. The ones that move east still point west.
Notes are...also spoilered. >_>
Spoiler
-Okay, the boss of the Elf Caves was clever. The trick was also frustrating, since there seems to be no hint that the north door is open. All you ever see is the top of the door, and the top of the cave doors look the same whether open or closed.
-Can you make an easier way to get back to Marathon Labyrinth after you get there the first time? Maybe add in a warp a few rooms in that you can activate that goes back to the Twilight Gardens? It's a pain in the ass having to go to the pedestal and through the fake village, Elf Caves, and fake boss every time.
...Although I suppose you could always set Marathon Labyrinth's entrance as a continue point...
Quote A single screenshot outside of the final dream world. I'm looking at some strange black outline on the upper part of the stairs. It only seems like it shows up after the screen stops scrolling. Is there an item back there?
Dunno why the stairs to the Dojo is being called the final dream world, (Crystalia, the Crypt, the Devouring Forest, and Capital Port are all on one map.) but yes, there is in fact an item hidden in back of those stairs in that screenshot. Just ladder over to it from behind the white column thing.
Quote A warp tile that, as I found out, wasn't supposed to have been active right when I walked in.
Indeed. It was a placeholder, and I probably got distracted.
Quote The Manhandla 2 sprite is still using some questionable colors. Is it any clearer on a screen that isn't mostly blue like the Storm Tower?
Why no, I have never actually seen a Manhandla in real life. I don't know what sort of stripes it has, or what sort of animal call it makes, or even its mating call, or when it likes to take its annual vacation to Hawaii, or if it writes with its left front claw or its right front claw. I don't know the name of its sister, or its address, or what kind of pasta it likes. I don't know if it likes green eggs or ham, or whether it likes strawberry jam. I don't know if it can make a fist, or if we're starting to get the jist. Hahaha. Whatever, bro. Not a big deal.
Quote Time for a whole lot of block puzzle bugs. With this one, the under combo overwrites any ground details and borders, and because there is no limit to where blocks can be pushed and because both doors are shuttered when you enter the room, you could technically get trapped in here. I dunno why the east door even needs to be shuttered, to be honest...
I just changed this room around quite a bit. I hate block puzzles that make you go through them more than once. So I made all the enemies' deaths turn some normal blocks into gold pushable blocks, and then when the block puzzle is solved, a chest appears with a key to unlock the new west locked door. It's a lot of tiered secrets, but it works beautifully. Should solve a lot of hassles.
Also fixed a bug in the screen to its west where if you fall down the pits there, it uses a scrolling warp instead of an entrance/exit. A pretty interesting effect actually. O.o
Quote Outside, the ground details on the upper floor are inconsistent. It's more noticeable when you're going between screens, like I was here.
Yeah, they were flipped horizontally for some reason. Also there is an upper floor border effect similar to the lava in the Volcano going on here. Never noticed that before.
Quote So you're supposed to hit one of the flowers with magic to make the main plant open up. But...how is the player supposed to know which to hit? If it comes down to random guessing, they could end up using all their magic power trying and failing to find the right target, and then have to endure a barrage of fireballs for even longer until their magic power starts to regenerate.
I added a little visual effect to the flower that you need to burn. I've also added some bats that drop magic.
Quote Why have another map here, when players will have to have picked one up in the other version of the room. Literally; it's on a space you have to touch to get to the door and go onward to the key past there.
Made a Room State Carryover for this. I really hope that works as well as it ought to. Room State Carryovers are a great concept, functionally.
Quote Having a statue-based Patra is an unusual choice, the palette is an unusual choice, and the animation for the Mini-Patras are off. They're facing north when they should face south, and vice versa.
Well that wasn't supposed to be there. O.o Turned it back into the plant based Oval Patra.
Quote The room immediately north doesn't seem to exist, even though the map claims a room is there.
Ah, nice find. That's definitely something of interest.
Quote And we close with a strange enemy choice in the basement. The Stalfos 3 birds don't appear anywhere else in that version of the dungeon. Probably because of how ugly they look in the palette. >_>
Because they use Cset 9. I'm actually quite okay with this. They look "dried out."
Quote You can actually see the map here before you pick up the Dungeon Map. It really ruins the ability to freak the player out when they pick it up and watch the entire minimap get filled in. >_>
DoY is renowned for its reliance on level numbers to do some intricate event-work. Many Dmaps are set to level 0 for some inexplicable reason. That causes map errors like this. For now, I've made all of them 8. Let's see what horrors result from this.
Quote This shop sells different things depending on which set of blocks is up. Is that intentional?
Until I get LTM's shop script all set up, it'll be alright. There are actually plenty of places where Link is supposed to be able to buy a key, so I'm not concerned. An underabundance of keys is an issue. An overabundance helps ease the player's mind.
Quote When you reach the rooms in the southeast corner of the main floor, the map disappears.
The Dungeon Dmaps use(d) a different level number than the Interior style Dmaps. Hopefully this'll be fixed now. Hopefully.
... aaaand those boss spoilers 'n stuff.
Spoiler
Quote -Okay, the boss of the Elf Caves was clever. The trick was also frustrating, since there seems to be no hint that the north door is open. All you ever see is the top of the door, and the top of the cave doors look the same whether open or closed.
Hm. This is a tricky one. What if Link only needs to walk halfway up the boss (Don't hear that every day.) to trigger the screen scrolling to the north? Apparently it's possible scroll a screen when you're not even on the edge. I can enlarge the doorway into the next room, sure enough, so he won't get stuck.
Quote ...Although I suppose you could always set Marathon Labyrinth's entrance as a continue point...
EDIT: You crazy bastard, you already did.
It's Link's Nightmare, Not Link's walk in the twilight park. If anything, the true challenge would be to make the player unable to return there. But if that isn't consistent with any other nightmare, there's no reason to do that.
Oh, you'll definitely want to download this next update. I fixed a ton of spelling errors and whatnot, to cut your screenshots down by about 9/10ths. Oh yes.
Same download link as all of them. Use the one in the more recent post of mine if you'd like.
Why no, I have never actually seen a Manhandla in real life. I don't know what sort of stripes it has, or what sort of animal call it makes, or even its mating call, or when it likes to take its annual vacation to Hawaii, or if it writes with its left front claw or its right front claw. I don't know the name of its sister, or its address, or what kind of pasta it likes. I don't know if it likes green eggs or ham, or whether it likes strawberry jam. I don't know if it can make a fist, or if we're starting to get the jist. Hahaha. Whatever, bro. Not a big deal.
Whoa, whoa. I mean its choice of colors for shading purposes looks off compared to how it looks in similar tilesets. PTUX and DoR are good points of reference.
Because they use Cset 9. I'm actually quite okay with this. They look "dried out."
It's less the colors, more the fact that they don't show up anywhere else in the dead version of the dungeon. I think they might've been an accidental carryover from copy-pasting the living version of the room.
Another shorter report. Probably has something to do with putting off yesterday's mammoth 45-screen one for so long. >_>
I think this might actually be the first full report so far that only covers one area.
And we have a transition error. For a dungeon that feels more like an overworld area, it was only a matter of time. >_>
In both locations, the switches actually change color when you step on them. It gives you a situation where the yellow switch is up and the blue switch is down when the yellow and blue blocks are the opposite.
More misleading conveyors; the ones that move north point south.
The map also disappears when you enter this room. I think it uses the same DMap as the southeast rooms, which means you already fixed this one. >_>
These two low wall corners look like they've been vertically mirrored.
The railings here don't end at the blocks, making it look like they go under them...somehow.
Okay, this one's weird. Just a heads up.
So for some reason, when you enter this room from the south and hit right about where Link is standing, the game puts you on the the DMap used by the small rooms. The disappearing map is a dead giveaway.
Why is this weird? Well, that DMap is NES Dungeon-style, which means...
...as long as you don't activate any tile or side warps, the entire outer ring of tiles is automatically overlaid, and Link can't turn left or right if he's within two tiles of the edge of any screen.
The first time I caught on, I went and backtracked to the far north hallway to hit one of the switches there and get back on the right DMap, and...
...Yeah. >_>
We're at 503 total screenshots now. I might just break 600 by the time this is all said and done. >_>
Notes:
-I've actually been coming up with an idea for one of the bonus dungeons. It's...kind of complicated, though, so I've been wanting to wait on that until after I finished the main game.
-You wouldn't happen to have a Skype account, would you? I'm on there all the time anyway for things based around my other forum, so it'd give me an easy way to communicate if I get involved in anything after I beat the game.
Just a quick reply while I can - Won't be on until Friday night at the earliest, and haven't opened ZQuest since my last reply.
1) I do have a Skype Account, though I'm almost never on it due to having nothing specific to talk about with anyone. (I'm very pragmatic.) I'll reveal it when appropriate, soon enough.
2) An idea for a bonus dungeon would be most welcome.
3) I was saving this for much later, but I want to get together the serious testers for some sort of cameo. I'm a decent-enough pixel artist, apparently, and can likely pull some strings to get a picture of you and pixcalibur and a few others into the credits. Thoughts?
First, though, good news. I finally beat the allegedly endless dungeon.
It also shattered the old record for bugs in one area, but with that many rooms, is it really a surprise? >_>
The contents of this chest don't carry over between versions of the dungeon, which means I was able to double dip for this potion.
The door doesn't overlay, which is probably a combo type problem. This shot was taken with the blue blocks down; I dunno if the same thing happens with the yellow blocks down.
As it turns out, pretty much all of the color switches are yellow when they're up and blue when they're down. How about color-coding them to show which color blocks they're tied to?
Here's a weird one. Head to the next screen while on the lower floating panel...
...and Link stands on thin air until you press any direction...
...at which point the Ladder deploys and inexplicably stops him from going back to the east. It lets him step off to the west, so he isn't stuck, but it's still unusual.
A different transition error nearby, with another inexplicably deployed Ladder. This one lets you head back north, though.
And a third one from the same damn screen, which leaves you hanging over the abyss instead of a platform like the others.
The effects of the switch don't carry over from the other version of the dungeon. Not exactly a bug, since it would've been a pain in 1.92, but since it's a breeze now with screen state carryovers it'd be a nice touch.
Pushable magic multiplier using a chest undercombo.
And I'm not entirely sure "fireballs" needs to be capitalized there.
More ceiling-walking...or maybe it's related to the glitch that happens when Peahats enter from the side of a screen. It showed up on the edge of the screen, flew straight north, then got stuck in the corner.
*a lot
Doublecheck the doors on the west and east walls. It seems like quite a few of them all over the dungeon are using part of the low wall instead of the regular wall.
You can swim around the raised blocks here. Not that it's much of a puzzle, but it might've been meant to be solved nonetheless.
The railing here is missing an end piece, as is the one that meets the wall nearby.
The piece of railing that goes along the top right of any given combo looks strange in general. The corner piece doesn't match up with all the other ones, and I thing part of the line heading down was mirrored. Did that make any sense, or is my word choice sucking again? >_>
And this version of the second floor, with the blue blocks down, doesn't show the map. Must not be set to Level 8 still. I had a different screen to illustrate it, but it put me one over the image limit. >_>
It seems that enemies can walk right over the horizontal railings.
Link doesn't hold up either version of the Purple Rupee here.
Link doesn't hold up the key in here.
He doesn't hold up this Orange Rupee, either.
And considering how easy this one is to find, maybe make it a 50 or 100 instead of a 200?
The only enemies on this screen are a pair of Patras, which are immune to magic. This makes the mirrors here pretty much pointless.
The contents of this chest don't carry over, letting players get two sets of bombs from what is supposed to be only one chest.
This room is functioning normally for the most part...except I had the blue blocks down.
More misleading conveyors.
The top of this door isn't overlaid, either.
And finally... (Boss Key Spoilers)
Spoiler
The Lens would be someone's main tipoff in this room that something isn't right, beyond realizing no one would make a miniboss, with music and everything, only lead to a warp to the entrance. It's showing some funky secrets here that keep it from doing its job as advertised.
Link doesn't hold up the Boss Key.
And on the return trip, the floor tiles on the edge of the screen are overlaid. Why is that screen set as NES Dungeon, anyway?
The boss itself went off without a hitch, surprisingly enough. Well, aside from it being disappointingly easy. >_>
Notes:
-Was I supposed to find a hint or two on 2F somewhere? I figured out a couple secrets in the northwest corner that led to the Boss Key area by using a combination of the Lens and intuition, and I know the game requires you to have the Lens to get through the Elf Caves, but I still can't help but wonder if I missed something...
-Forum question: do nested spoilers work here? Can I have a spoiler tag within a spoiler tag? It's about to be relevant very, very soon.
That screen always gave me the willies because I don't know what the heck it's doing. Though apparently, if you step on the square left by the orange .. er .. Blurp, it'll warp you to a screen where you can go to the west and collect an HCP.
If anything, the true challenge would be to make the player unable to return there. But if that isn't consistent with any other nightmare, there's no reason to do that.
I mean its choice of colors for shading purposes looks off compared to how it looks in similar tilesets. PTUX and DoR are good points of reference.
