1043 replies to this topic

[Zenith]

Hm. I'll take a look for other designs. It's hard to cram 512 pixels of awesome into 16 pixels of .. pixels.

 
I thought they looked close enough to the bow sprite you're already using that all you'd have to do is give the old bow sprite a new paint job.
 
 

.. and no, I don't look that closely at the locations of the boxes. How many pixels are they off by? I'm looking closely and I'm not seeing it. But I'm not looking that hard at it. If it was easy to spot, then perhaps I have quite literally gone insane.

 
Well, actually, when you can look at them side by side...
 

 
...you can see that on the alternate subscreen, the box for the B Button item is shifted up about eight pixels.
 
 

Later on, Coma & Insomnia inform their shadowy master that, and I quote, "Storm tower has fallen!!" So they had a hand in it, possibly.

 
They're the ones behind the nightmares, right?  So couldn't they still have summoned the monsters?
 
 
Let's call this a bonus report...because they're showing up at such a fast clip that I had to get the last one out early just to keep pace. >_>
 

 
First, before I forget again, this screen also has a perspective error on the top right, and what may or may not be another one where the diagonal wall meets the sideways wall.
 
 

 
I dunno which is crazier, the fact that Kokiri Village of all places has a transition error, or that it took me this long to notice.
 
 

 
More under combo shenanigans, and it's the usual culprit.
 
 
I did manage another trip to the Excavation Site.  Scored the Red Lamp, but not without a few hangups.
 

 
Seems like the damage combos on this screen never had a tile picked for them.
 
...And it seems weird that this room has circular floor switches as triggers, when everywhere else so far has used those star switches with the eyes.
 
...And making damage combos appear in front of the doors seems like a dick move. >_>
 
 

 
It's always cool seeing fixes get implemented.  However...I didn't notice the first time, but the sound effect the enemies here are using when they fire magic is actually the sound effect for fire.  Are they modded Fire Wizzrobes?
 
And if they're not using the same sprite as the other Wizzrobes, maybe touch up their hats so the lighter shade of brown isn't inexplicably green.
 
 

 
This Manhandla can go onto the walls for some reason, and I don't know the purpose of having that one floor tile be a different color than the others.
 
 
For everyone else who's been following since the beginning, the fifth dream area is where I got stuck in the original version.  I'm going into all new territory from here on out.
 
And, uh...this place just fell one bug short of Level 4. >_>
 

 
Starting off, the Lens says these spikes are supposed to disappear somehow, but nothing I've tried has made them.
 

 
...It may or may not have something to do with the Whistle whirlwind showing up. >_>
 
 

 
Strange choice of combo here.  This screen is the main exit for the caves, and you exit them by going up a staircase.  So why is this a warp tile--which by this point is associated with leaving the Dream World--and not also a staircase?
 
 

 
Cool to see the Relic Stones finally have messages, but the message box is off center.
 
 

 
The Lens isn't letting me see under the canopy here.
 
 

 
Some poorly placed rocks means that this shortcut only works in one direction.  Since you probably want to make sure players use the regular entrance to get into the Devouring Forest the first time, I'd replace the rocks entirely with pits that you need the Ladder to cross.
 
 

 
*Nightmare
 
...Wait...don't I have the Nightmare Buster already?  Why is an NPC giving me a hint for a sword you can find as early as three dungeons prior?  Is the name wrong, and does that mean I should start looking for the Level 4 sword in a little while?
 
 

 
*Let's, and "hide" got misaligned somehow.
 
 

 
Link doesn't hold up the Heart Piece here.
 
 

 
Back on the surface, the Lens doesn't give away the pit leading to it.  I mean, it's conspicuous as hell, but compared to the others it's still inconsistent. >_>
 
 

 
Transition error, because every area seems like it has one or two.
 
 

 
This flashing tile is actually not an invisible pit.  I want to say it has to do with the Blade Trap, but whether it is or not, it's deceptive.
 
 

 
Finally, Link doesn't hold up the 200 Rupees here.
 
 
Not done just yet.  I made a little bit of progress in one of the most disturbing dungeons in Zelda Classic history. >_>
 

 
Falling down the weak floor in the room above dropped me onto a wall.  Not even the dungeons are safe from transition errors any more...
 
 

 
Turns out, you actually didn't set potions to stop removing jinxes.  That rule needs to be checked, because it breaks the mechanics of the dungeon.
 
 

 
In order to kill every Like Like on this screen, you need at least 18 arrows...more if you miss one and have to start over.  Since you get the dungeon's first key from killing them, and since the Blue Bubbles are all in areas behind locked doors, there is no way of reliably replenishing arrows at the point where you need this key.  If you run out, you're basically trapped.
 
Unfortunately, I don't know how to solve this one without an in-dungeon shop or something else that wouldn't make sense.
 
 

 
Ending on a lighter note, more ceiling-walking...flying...you get the idea. >_>
 
 
More notes:
-The staircase in the Excavation Site's entrance and its counterpart on B1 still haven't been changed to warp tiles.
-Level 4's entrance room didn't feel like, you know, an entrance.  What happened to the fancy designs that were used for Level 1 and 2's entrance rooms?
-AAAAAAAAAAARGH those invisible pits in the Devouring Forest.  There's so little rhyme or reason to them that anyone who doesn't have the Lens of Truth is just setting themselves up for Angrish, ragequits, and metaphorical thrown controllers.  Can you throw us a bone and give them some kind of tell like the marked blocks have, subtle enough to not see right away but noticeable if you know to look?
-The two long trees with the bombable faces were also on the obscure side.  If I didn't have the Lens, how would I have known I could blow a hole in the bases of those two when I can't for all of the others that look the same?  And why are they bombable and not burnable?  Would a tell for them also work?

Edited by Zenith, 08 July 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

How's this for a bow recolor?

Spoiler

...you can see that on the alternate subscreen, the box for the B Button item is shifted up about eight pixels.

Ah I see it now. Thanks. also, it's apparently possible to see the X/Y positions of each entity in the Subscreen editor. It helped immensely as well.

They're the ones behind the nightmares, right? So couldn't they still have summoned the monsters?

One could say, "slippery slope."

Seems like the damage combos on this screen never had a tile picked for them.

...And it seems weird that this room has circular floor switches as triggers, when everywhere else so far has used those star switches with the eyes.

...And making damage combos appear in front of the doors seems like a dick move. >_>

Strange. They used to work just fine. Not sure why I put damage combos in front of a door but that's not my style. Anyway, turns out that I should've made a duplicate of the Train Station palette when I imported the colors for the FF6 train. The lack of color to the damage combo is the result of that. They do have a tile, but we just can't see it. Anyway, fixed.

It's always cool seeing fixes get implemented. However...I didn't notice the first time, but the sound effect the enemies here are using when they fire magic is actually the sound effect for fire. Are they modded Fire Wizzrobes?

And if they're not using the same sprite as the other Wizzrobes, maybe touch up their hats so the lighter shade of brown isn't inexplicably green.

Good timing on that one. I just fixed them all up right before you posted that, oddly.

This Manhandla can go onto the walls for some reason, and I don't know the purpose of having that one floor tile be a different color than the others.

Also a result of the train station palette incident. No idea about the Manhandla. There shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary about those walls.

Starting off, the Lens says these spikes are supposed to disappear somehow, but nothing I've tried has made them.

There were no screen flags set for that screen. At all. "Enemies->Secret" is now checked for that screen, permanently.

... .. I have a looooot of "Whistle Whirlwind" Dmap flags to uncheck now, don't I.

Strange choice of combo here. This screen is the main exit for the caves, and you exit them by going up a staircase. So why is this a warp tile--which by this point is associated with leaving the Dream World--and not also a staircase?

My presumption is that since it was behind a layer, nobody would see it. It was I who allowed the Lens to see past those layers.

The Lens isn't letting me see under the canopy here.

Interesting. On every other screen, there was a layer for the canopy, and a layer for the mist. On that screen, they were on the same layer. Neat.

Some poorly placed rocks means that this shortcut only works in one direction. Since you probably want to make sure players use the regular entrance to get into the Devouring Forest the first time, I'd replace the rocks entirely with pits that you need the Ladder to cross.

Interesting. What if, instead, we keep the L2 boulders to stop the player from entering the Devouring Forest, and rather, we limit the player's movement with ladderable pits in Capital Port? There are already a bunch, but they can visit Enigma Castle and get an HCP or two while there. Not a heck of a lot to do there without the ladder. Can't even use the new Dojo proper. (You're going to love that.)

...Wait...don't I have the Nightmare Buster already? Why is an NPC giving me a hint for a sword you can find as early as three dungeons prior? Is the name wrong, and does that mean I should start looking for the Level 4 sword in a little while?

Because I'm not good at working with string control codes yet. Thanks for the reminder though. I'll definitely have to look into that. I'll have a lot to fix though. I can never remember who talks about the sword.

This flashing tile is actually not an invisible pit. I want to say it has to do with the Blade Trap, but whether it is or not, it's deceptive.

... yeah, what's up with that?

In order to kill every Like Like on this screen, you need at least 18 arrows...more if you miss one and have to start over. Since you get the dungeon's first key from killing them, and since the Blue Bubbles are all in areas behind locked doors, there is no way of reliably replenishing arrows at the point where you need this key. If you run out, you're basically trapped.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to solve this one without an in-dungeon shop or something else that wouldn't make sense.

I can create an "arrow pod" creature that basically just sits there and kinda hurts a little to walk into, and can be killed in a single hit with just about anything, and will almost certainly drop arrows. I can't believe this is a completely viable option.

-The staircase in the Excavation Site's entrance and its counterpart on B1 still haven't been changed to warp tiles.

Nah, the one on the entrance screen can remain a staircase. It's only going down one level.

-Level 4's entrance room didn't feel like, you know, an entrance. What happened to the fancy designs that were used for Level 1 and 2's entrance rooms?

We can use the dungeons' names, if you want. Nobody goes by their numbers, really. It's not a standard Zelda quest. They're too heavily themed, which ties in to your point. Is Level 1 the Hideout? That makes Level 4 the Mirage Temple. That's why I don't use Level numbers in verbal descriptions. I consider places like the Hideout and the Dam levels. But nobody can possibly get confused when their names are used.

I'm dumb like that. Feel free to call me on it. I know I deserve it, somehow.

-AAAAAAAAAAARGH those invisible pits in the Devouring Forest. There's so little rhyme or reason to them that anyone who doesn't have the Lens of Truth is just setting themselves up for Angrish, ragequits, and metaphorical thrown controllers. Can you throw us a bone and give them some kind of tell like the marked blocks have, subtle enough to not see right away but noticeable if you know to look?
-The two long trees with the bombable faces were also on the obscure side. If I didn't have the Lens, how would I have known I could blow a hole in the bases of those two when I can't for all of the others that look the same? And why are they bombable and not burnable? Would a tell for them also work?

Something I'll have to think about for a while, I guess. Gotta hit the hay right now though. I'll get back to it tomorrow. Thanks again.

[SpikeReynolds]

Tackled the Predator. That boss fight was a bitch.

Spoiler

Speaking of running out of arrows, I had to save/quit because I died, the Likelikes in the boss fight respawned, but the bats didn't. I was hosed.

Managed to kill the last phase of it with sword beams somehow, though. That was cool. Also note I just hit 50 deaths. Wheee.

 

Quick question. Is there a place that I can buy Super Bombs? I hear about this dojo in Capitol Port that I should check out. I've used most all of the Superbombs I've found (mostly by accident -_-)

 

Also, I'm pretty sure doors don't work that way, Link!

[ShadowTiger]

(Boss)

Okay, that particular boss had some weird flags set. Now, "Enemies always return" is set. If anyone wants to repeat the boss, you're free to do so. The arrow-dropping bats will return.

... what a creative boss. Amazing, yuh.

(Door)

Interesting! I wonder what does that.

Quick question. Is there a place that I can buy Super Bombs? I hear about this dojo in Capitol Port that I should check out. I've used most all of the Superbombs I've found (mostly by accident -_-)

Ah. Yes, actually. There is a guy a few screens west of the Graveyard in Dreamworld, west of Granny's House, along the southernmost edge of the map. It's right near the path to Kanavas. Big house. Hard to miss.

Amazing though, actually, just how many Super Bombs you'll actually be getting from chests and the like that you won't be using much.


Anyway, Revision.

[Zenith]

Speaking of which, I also just beat the Predator.  Whole bunch of bugs as usual...but first, replies, yada yada, same as always.

 

How's this for a bow recolor?

No offense, but...you missed the mark with it.  The Killer Bow isn't just solid red, in battle (at least, in the 3D games) it's a mix of dark red and black.  Problem is, that CSet only has two reds, both are bright, and there isn't a dark gray you could use for the black parts.  Uh...I think the Red Keese used a shade of red that might work better.

 

 

Interesting. What if, instead, we keep the L2 boulders to stop the player from entering the Devouring Forest, and rather, we limit the player's movement with ladderable pits in Capital Port? There are already a bunch, but they can visit Enigma Castle and get an HCP or two while there.

I think you're missing the point.  Because the Level 2 boulders are there, players could enter the Devouring Forest for the first time via Crystal Canyon instead of via the overworld.  Since the whole point is to find the dreamers and enter their dreams through them, it kills the purpose if you can enter an entire section of the Dream World without ever needing to find the person dreaming it up.  If you replace the boulders with pits, the player can't use that shortcut until they have the Ladder, which means they have to get into the Devouring Forest the "correct" way.  Does that make any more sense?

 

Adding more Ladder pits at Capitol Port wouldn't accomplish much either.  Seal off most of that area, and you make the game that much more linear.  Even beofre you get the Ladder, there's still a couple Heart Pieces and a Relic Stone to find.  Sure, put some pits in the way of the entrance to Enigma Castle, but I don't see the point of going any further with it.

 

 

Nah, the one on the entrance screen can remain a staircase. It's only going down one level.

...Except it isn't going straight down a floor, it's going down one floor, three screens north, and one screen west.  They're too far away from each other for a staircase to logically connect them.

 

 

We can use the dungeons' names, if you want. Nobody goes by their numbers, really. It's not a standard Zelda quest. They're too heavily themed, which ties in to your point.

Okay, this one was poor word choice on my part.  Look at the first screens of the first couple main (nightmare) dungeons.

 

 

Notice how they have the ornate doors, the special floor design, things that make the screen feel like an entryway?  If you showed the Storm Tower's entryway to someone, they'd think it was a regular dungeon screen unless you told them otherwise.  Something small yet noticeable could be done to its design to make it feel like the first screen of a major dungeon.

 

 

Okay, on to the main event.  I looked around the overworld first, like usual.

 

 

Two more under combo errors.  It's the usual culprit.

 

 

 

The border tiles here, between the land, water, and mountain, don't mesh together very well.  It's like the problem that one screen near Lake Hylia with the whirlpool had.

 

 

 

Map view shows that the perspective on these mountains is off.

 

 

 

This secret combo is using the wrong CSet.

 

 

 

*DREAMER'S

 

 

 

Seems like this part of the mountain can't decide how tall it is.  The northern wall is at least five tiles high, but the diagonal wall in the middle of the screen is only four, and when it joins up with the lower wall it's only three high.

 

 

 

And, Link didn't hold up this Heart Piece.

 

 

A quick detour to the mines to grab a different Heart Piece that I couldn't get the first time I was there...

 

 

...and in this room, the top of the door on the west side doesn't line up right with the walls.  Did the door combo layer itself over the corner?

 

 

And on my way back to Level 5...

 

 

...another transition error reared its ugly head...

 

 

 

...and I found a way around a puzzle.  Those skulls are there to keep you from moving on if a Red Bubble got you, but right now you can walk around them.

 

 

Now for the main event...or should I say main course?  The rest of the dungeon managed to be one of the buggiest so far despite being the shortest since Level 1.

 

 

The key in this room appears instead of falling from the ceiling.

 

 

 

The layering here is inconsistent.  It seems like the lower walls are always supposed to be covered, but on this screen they aren't in two spots.

 

 

 

You can cheat your way through this archery puzzle with sword beams.  Is that on purpose, or should the arrow triggers in this room be turned into strike triggers?

 

 

 

The tile warp for a screen that sends you to here (I think it was...the screen with the breakable floor on the northwest side of the Body?) uses zap effects instead of the Entrance/Exit warp everything else in the dungeon uses.

 

 

 

The Ladder has no item message.

 

 

 

Any idea why the dive warps are on Layer 3?

 

 

 

Nice to see the wall was moved up, but now you need two rows' worth of layering here.

 

 

 

I like the new enemy...but it sticks out like a sore thumb.  Since they're only appearing in this dungeon, you ought to be able to get away with using CSet 2, 3, or 4 to make it blend in better.

 

 

 

The blood-water is missing the combos for where it borders the floor.  It showed up in a couple other rooms, too, so I'd look for the same thing everywhere else in the dungeon.

 

 

 

Link doesn't hold up the Boss Key.

 

 

(Boss Spoilers)

Spoiler

 

In every phase of the fight, you can barely make out a Like Like sitting behind the boss' head.  I get that it's there as its HP for each phase, but it still shouldn't be visible.

 

...And maybe make the gem on the Megalodon's forehead shimmer or glow a little, to show that it's what you're supposed to be aiming at.

 

 

(No Screen)

 

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take a shot of this one in time, but during the last phase, the bottom right dirt tile doesn't scroll.  I don't think it's even a conveyor combo.

 

 

 

When you pick up the crystal afterwards, you get warped right back to the screen it was on, making players have to hear the Hunter admit defeat a second time and take the warp tile out.

 

 

 

The game can't seem to decide whether to use "Wind Fish", "WindFish", or "Windfish".  I'd go with the first one, but it's your call.

 

 

 

*overseer; it isn't the start of a new sentence.

 

 

 

And finally, if you're really fast, once you leave the dungeon you can head north before the Megalodon appears again, and wind up on a layer screen.

 

 

Notes:

-Link's hat still uses a couple pixels of his tunic color during a few frames, and his minimap icon is still using one of his hat colors.

-There actually is a really minor tell for the invisible traps.  From what it looks like, all of them are disguised as grass tiles, but they're uncuttable.  So you could leave it at that as long as an NPC somewhere in the forest points it out.

-Is there a way to use a different secret sound than the normal one when you slash a skull that grows spikes and turns into a damage combo?  Something similar could also work in Capitol Port, with the spies hiding in bushes that look at you or try to stab you.

-(Boss Key Spoilers)

Spoiler

Okay, that Boss Key was hidden a little too well.  I spent a couple hours looking for it, failed, and had to look at MeleeWizard's LP to figure out where it was.  I can safely say I never would've thought I had to dive in the east side of the northeast room with the Vires, when diving anywhere in the north or west part of the room does nothing.  There's nothing to hint that there are dive warps in only a certain part of the room.  How is anyone else supposed to find out without randomly stumbling across it or looking it up?

Edited by Zenith, 09 July 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[SpikeReynolds]

This little spot here where you talk to this dude is still using an old minimap border.

 

Also, Enigma Castle...Holy shit this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. ZC puzzles that make you use your brain.

[ShadowTiger]

Quote
No offense, but...you missed the mark with it. The Killer Bow isn't just solid red, in battle (at least, in the 3D games) it's a mix of dark red and black. Problem is, that CSet only has two reds, both are bright, and there isn't a dark gray you could use for the black parts. Uh...I think the Red Keese used a shade of red that might work better.

Feel free to draw me one if you feel it's that important. Seriously. If it's good enough I'll import it right in. Take a screenshot anywhere, import its palettes, and draw something up, or replace colors as you see fit. A picture is worth a thousand words, after all, and words mean so very little to me these days.

Quote
I think you're missing the point. Because the Level 2 boulders are there, players could enter the Devouring Forest for the first time via Crystal Canyon instead of via the overworld. Since the whole point is to find the dreamers and enter their dreams through them, it kills the purpose if you can enter an entire section of the Dream World without ever needing to find the person dreaming it up. If you replace the boulders with pits, the player can't use that shortcut until they have the Ladder, which means they have to get into the Devouring Forest the "correct" way. Does that make any more sense?



Adding more Ladder pits at Capitol Port wouldn't accomplish much either. Seal off most of that area, and you make the game that much more linear. Even beofre you get the Ladder, there's still a couple Heart Pieces and a Relic Stone to find. Sure, put some pits in the way of the entrance to Enigma Castle, but I don't see the point of going any further with it.

ok
. Wait, there already are pits in front of Devouring Forest's Crystalia entrance. What am I talking about.

Quote
...Except it isn't going straight down a floor, it's going down one floor, three screens north, and one screen west. They're too far away from each other for a staircase to logically connect them.

Ah, logic. Death of a video gamer.

Quote
Notice how they have the ornate doors, the special floor design, things that make the screen feel like an entryway? If you showed the Storm Tower's entryway to someone, they'd think it was a regular dungeon screen unless you told them otherwise. Something small yet noticeable could be done to its design to make it feel like the first screen of a major dungeon.

Gotcha. Thanks for the screenshots again. Okay, added! Even covered in icicles. Kinda neat.

Quote
And, Link didn't hold up this Heart Piece.

Weird. The screen flag is checked for it. Also, how can we tell? The text box is totally covering Link, I find.

Quote
...and in this room, the top of the door on the west side doesn't line up right with the walls. Did the door combo layer itself over the corner?

Not only that, but the screen transition is wrong with the walls.

Quote
..another transition error reared its ugly head...

Already fixed.

Quote
You can cheat your way through this archery puzzle with sword beams. Is that on purpose, or should the arrow triggers in this room be turned into strike triggers?

True. The player is supposed to have the sword available at that point.

Quote
Any idea why the dive warps are on Layer 3?

Corners were cut while those were being laid out a decade ago. I fixed it.


EDIT: Wasn't done. Hit Save Changes for some reason. O.o

Quote
In every phase of the fight, you can barely make out a Like Like sitting behind the boss' head. I get that it's there as its HP for each phase, but it still shouldn't be visible.



...And maybe make the gem on the Megalodon's forehead shimmer or glow a little, to show that it's what you're supposed to be aiming at.

What, hitting it in the mouth isn't enough? With an arrow or something? It's one of the faster conclusions one may arrive at. Anyway, not sure why I left it visible. Maybe just to beta test the existence of the hit points beast. 'tis invisible. I mean it has no sprite now. That's invisibility.

Quote
-Is there a way to use a different secret sound than the normal one when you slash a skull that grows spikes and turns into a damage combo?

Sure, as long as it's the only secret on the screen. In fact, if it's happening in the first place, it will be the only secret on the screen. Otherwise it'd trigger everything else that happens to be on the screen too. Good idea. I have that ooT Poe laugh sound already in the quest, I think. Great sound for that.

Quote
Boss Key

Well, first, we have to figure out what sort of hint the player could be given. Maybe it swallowed a squirrel. ... Eh, okay, that might work. Squirrels get swallowed by dinosaurs all the time where I'm from. That should do it. Okay, tested it, and it works great.

[Zenith]

I have that ooT Poe laugh sound already in the quest, I think. Great sound for that.

Actually, the Poe laugh might not be the best fit there.  Maybe a sound effect of something growling or snarling for the rocks, and the sound the soldiers make in LttP for the bushes in Capitol Port?

 

 

We have another record.  Thirty-six.  Brace yourself.

 

As it turns out, the Ladder opens up a couple parts of Overland Hyrule.

 

 

...And a transition error that wasn't possible before.

 

 

Then I pushed a rock and found a side area with a bug count on the disproportionate side.

 

 

Such as ceiling tiles that vanish into thin air between screens...

 

 

 

...or water overhangs that are sitting on the upper walls in some spots and don't appear at all in others.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's going on here, but the lowest wall is the wrong CSet, and it outright vanishes under the corner of the second-lowest wall.

 

 

 

The water overhang here applies even when Link is on land...

 

 

 

...the upper walls down the middle are a mess...

 

 

 

...and to top it all off, the Whistle whirlwind can show up.

 

 

I also did a little Dream World scouting...and you can guess where this is going. >_>

 

 

Another Ladder-based transition error.

 

 

 

An NPC that can be walked on.

 

 

 

And an incomplete treeline.

 

 

Capitol Port came after that, and with it brought under combo shenanigans...

 

 

...here...

 

 

...and here.

 

 

 

Plus an invisible wall that has a reason to be there, but a more natural obstruction like a raised part of the roof would look better.

 

 

 

I don't know if he meant Darknuts, or if he spelled it that way on purpose.

 

 

The hotel managed to shatter the record for bugs in a minidungeon.  They ought to look into an exterminator. >_>

 

 

*basement.

 

 

 

The key in here appeared instead of falling from the ceiling, and the Dodongo in here is Z1-style (with a 1x1 sprite when it moves north or south) instead of being BS-style like every other Dodongo so far is.

 

 

 

Almost all of the water in this passage is invisible.  I don't know if it was a deliberate choice done to show how dank it is, or an oversight.

 

 

 

The water combo next to Link needs to have a water-land border.

 

 

 

*a lot; *furniture.

 

 

 

The entire first floor has no subscreen map...and on a side note, it looks like the Triforce box is misaligned.

 

 

 

*purpose.

 

...And this is the only message in the dungeon without a box.

 

 

 

Okay, this one's more aesthetic.  Take a look at the very bottom of the walls.  Notice how the pattern below the windows doesn't match up with the rest?  Now look at the rest of the wall near the window.  It doesn't line up either.  It looks like the right side of the window was mirrored from the left, and it's jarring in the way the mirrored floor combos were in Level 4.

 

 

 

It's entirely possible for Link to die in this room or elsewhere in the dungeon while jinxed.  I'd either put a Blue Bubble at the entrance, or, since this is the only room with a Red Bubble, replace them altogether with the regular ones that jinx temporarily.

 

 

 

I...don't remember exactly what went wrong here, but it was item-related.  Either Link didn't hold it up, or no message played.  One of the two; probably depends on what the item was.

 

 

 

The back of these doors are fully walkable.  It's like that for the one on the other side, too.  I have no clue how I figured this out. >_>

 

 

 

Fall from the B1 screen with all the Hookshot blocks in just the right spot, and you end up stuck here.

 

 

 

The warp tile on B2 sends you here, instead of to the entrance one screen south.

 

 

 

*I'm; *falls.

 

...And that's it.  Phew.

 

 

The rest are in the next post.

Edited by Zenith, 10 July 2013 - 05:39 PM.

[Zenith]

Sorry in advance about the double post, but there were so many images it wouldn't let me put them all in one. >_>

 

 

A transition error that was there all along.

 

 

An image with a misleading name (my mistake >_>).  This one's actually more under combo shenanigans.

 

Over in the swamp, Link is able to walk into the combos that have a phallus plant on the right if he approaches them from the left side.  He can only get back into the water by going left.



Turns out, that thing where the dark bushes have abnormally dark grass around them shows up just about everywhere in the swamp.  Must be a CSet thing.



And one little thing in the Excavation Site.  The Level 3 Helmasaurs don't have breakable helmets.

 

...And that's it.  Phew.

 

 

Next up: Sea Dog, Level 6, and hopefully a few new sword techniques.

 

Notes:

-The Whistle wihrlwind could use a touch up.  It flashes between blue and red, animates at ludicrous speed, and doesn't look very good because of that.

-Any idea what the Ice Arrows are supposed to resemble?

-It's been four dungeons since I found the Nightmare Buster and three since the Blue Mail.  Am I getting to the point where I should be looking for the Red Mail or Level 4 sword?

Edited by Zenith, 10 July 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

My apologies for the brief reply. Today I found out I'm dying. They estimate I have about 72 years left to live. I was very disappointed. Time flies by far too quickly, doesn't it. ... But yeah, I just don't have much to reply with. Thanks for the bugs.

Quote
-The Whistle wihrlwind could use a touch up. It flashes between blue and red, animates at ludicrous speed, and doesn't look very good because of that.

-Any idea what the Ice Arrows are supposed to resemble?

-It's been four dungeons since I found the Nightmare Buster and three since the Blue Mail. Am I getting to the point where I should be looking for the Red Mail or Level 4 sword?

Yeah, we really do need a new whirlwind, don't we. I'm surprised how little I used that thing when I was playing. Not sure why. Probably because I use the Tilde key to speed things up.

I'm not at all sure what the L2 Arrows are supposed to be, visually. I really don't. I'd like to turn them into Ice Arrows, but I don't want to get into the whole scripting thing with turning enemies to ice. They will definitely have their uses soon enough, though, and I think they're mandatory to proceed. There will be groups of flames that need to be extinguished with them, and soon.

Your next upgrade will be the Red Mail, which can be gotten very soon when you enter the Clockwork Volcano. (Just a few screens in, in fact, if you know where to look and what to bomb, and are clever with your side warps.) The L4 Sword must also be "unlocked" by speaking to the right people. There's a Subrosian in the Goron Hills 9need Raft/Flying Boots to get there from west of Error's Mansion) that lets you get down into Subrosia from the watery caves you showed off earlier. You will need the Mirror Shield though, which is in the last "Triforce" Dungeon. Much later.

[Zenith]

Okay, good news.  This report's less than half the length of the last one. >_>

 

 

There are even only two from outside the Dream World:

 

 

Under combo shenanigans...

 

 

 

...and the Golden Arrow has no message.

 

 

Capitol Port doesn't have very many either.

 

 

Another under combo bug.  This one's under an Armos instead of a rock, though.

 

 

 

As is the under combo here.

 

 

 

And in a shocking twist, cutting the bush here leaves you with an open chest. >_>

 

 

Sea Dog's trials turned out to be about as challenging as you said.  Pretty buggy, as well.

 

 

The cutscene in the first room is missing the prompt to move right to advance it.

 

 

 

*fiendish

 

 

 

This cutscene is also missing arrow prompts.

 

 

 

*mastery.

 

 

 

And the Black Belt (Violet Belt?) doesn't have a pickup message.

 

 

Enigma Castle's been an interesting change of pace.  I actually had to look up how to do prime factorization again because I forgot what it meant. >_> I want to say I'm about halfway through, and here's what I've found so far:

 

 

This chest is the only one in the room without a monster hiding inside...and it doesn't have an item in it.

 

 

 

Could there be a better way to hint to how the Black Belt is needed to get anywhere in Level 6?  Is there a better combo you could place that would be more obvious about being set off by arrows?  And couldn't players bypass the puzzle altogether with sword beams?

 

 

 

The arrow tile Link is standing on doesn't become unwalkable when you step off it.

 

 

 

I want to say that the tile Link is pointing at is an accidental duplicate of the one to its left.  There's supposed to be one there with a top left-bottom right diagonal line and two squares on its bottom left.

 

 

 

Less logic, more fridge logic.  Why is this NPC floating in midair?

 

 

 

And finally, the under combos in this room don't include the floor borders.

 

 

Notes:

-When is the rest of the Dojo supposed to open up?  I never saw any option to learn any new techniques...

-The Wand is really underpowered for how late you get it.  How about buffing it to 4 damage so that it becomes worth using despite the magic cost and all of the enemies that are immune to it?  ...Or maybe lower the magic cost instead.  ...Or some combination.

-The Level 3 sword's beams seem to be doing 3 damage.  Was that on purpose?

-When Link faces north and uses the Wand, the sprite of his open palm doesn't line up with the rest of his arm.

-Look closely and you can catch a quick glimpse of a random set of stairs at the very end of the Golden Arrow's trailing explosions.

 

EDIT: The room with the 3x3 grid that changes colors when you press the switches.  What the hell am I supposed to do there?  Does it have to do with the 1x2 patterns in those two rooms on the first floor? Never mind, figured it out, but I'm still confused.

Edited by Zenith, 11 July 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

This chest is the only one in the room without a monster hiding inside...and it doesn't have an item in it.

It never had anything in it. Then again, it is Enigma Castle. Who knows. Doesn't matter.

Could there be a better way to hint to how the Black Belt is needed to get anywhere in Level 6? Is there a better combo you could place that would be more obvious about being set off by arrows? And couldn't players bypass the puzzle altogether with sword beams?

Sword beams are blocked. Not sure what kind of hint to give, though. There are plenty of hints to go look for Sea Dog in Capital Port, and nobody ever really has a problem with it, on average.

The arrow tile Link is standing on doesn't become unwalkable when you step off it.

Nice find. These puzzles operate in a really, really strange way. It's all walkability and direct warps.

I want to say that the tile Link is pointing at is an accidental duplicate of the one to its left. There's supposed to be one there with a top left-bottom right diagonal line and two squares on its bottom left.

Y'know, you're absolutely right. That there is a major bug, I would consider. There was even a combo for it, too.

-The Wand is really underpowered for how late you get it. How about buffing it to 4 damage so that it becomes worth using despite the magic cost and all of the enemies that are immune to it? ...Or maybe lower the magic cost instead. ...Or some combination.

Yeah, the wand has always been a bit of an anachronism at that point. I'm thinking it should be able to affect almost any enemy to some degree. It could be a powerful weapon against enemies that are usually invulnerable to certain things, or enemies that you really don't want to handle close to you that can't be stunned with the boomerang. Besides, there's no reason why heavy armor should block energy bolts. Then again, there's also no reason why Wizzrobes should be immune to arrows. Unless of course they're halfway phased out. But that would mean they're immune to swords too, and they're not. (Magic would really affect them then. ) It's quite a weird thing to think about.

-The Level 3 sword's beams seem to be doing 3 damage. Was that on purpose?

Little bit of a challenge. It previously did half that amount, I think. Half of 4, I mean.

-When Link faces north and uses the Wand, the sprite of his open palm doesn't line up with the rest of his arm.

Oddly enough, it would be significantly harder to fix this than you'd think.

-When is the rest of the Dojo supposed to open up? I never saw any option to learn any new techniques...

Well, the north path is the shop, and the west path is the hammer, which is pretty much feature-complete. If you have any ideas for the right (sword) path, lemme know. I'm game for anything. Anything simple to implement, anyway.

[Zenith]

Well, after wracking my brain and saying a lot of choice words, Level 6 is finally behind me.  I never did find out what was up with those numbered doors in a couple parts of the third floor...

 

Well, the north path is the shop, and the west path is the hammer, which is pretty much feature-complete. If you have any ideas for the right (sword) path, lemme know. I'm game for anything. Anything simple to implement, anyway.

I mean I never saw any path at all.  When I went back, it put me right back into the trials for the belt.  Is that a bug, or should I check again somehow?

 

 

Another long haul coming up...but in a twist, this time we're starting with the rest of a dungeon.

 

 

A pair of walkability issues in the second arrow room.  The tile on the first screen can be walked on completely after doing a little maneuvering in that area, and you can get halfway onto the tile on the second screen.

 

 

 

This door may or may not be in the wrong CSet.  It looks like it's using solid black instead of the very dark gray the other open doors use.

 

 

 

No secret sound plays when you open this decoy chest.  It happens in a couple other rooms as well, if I remember right.  Maybe you could also replace the regular secret sound with the sound of some monster attacking.

 

 

 

Not an actual bug, but this puzzle is way too easy.  If you changed the arrow in front of Link to go down, and the one on his right to go right, then players would have to go through more of the room than just the southwest corner.

 

Then again, with all the crazy tile warps that puzzle uses, changing it is easier said than done...

 

 

 

No item message.

 

 

 

There is currently no way to activate the secrets in this room.  The only reason I knew where to go was because of the Lens.

 

 

 

Strange one.  Using the Lens in this room reveals a ton of off-color invisible warps.  They seem to work correctly, but one is on a wall and the one on the far right is on a space that actually isn't a trap.

 

 

The south end of the room, however, is a trap.

 

And the four raised blocks on the far right are misleading, in that they never go down.  Maybe replace them with regular dungeon blocks?

 

 

 

The 2 and 5 on the south wall are backwards.  It seems they were vertically flipped, but not horizontally flipped to make them face the right way.

 

(This was one of the aforementioned rooms where I had no clue what the puzzle was. >_>)

 

 

 

When you step onto the II tile, you get warped slightly south, enough to potentially give away the safe tiles for the next part of the puzzle.

 

 

(Boss Spoilers)

Spoiler

http://i1136.photobu...tentNaming.png]

 

*castle's

 

 

 

*Mano a mano

 

 

 

*impertinence

 

And the borders randomly disappeared on the space the prince is on and the two to the right of him.

 

 

 

*It's

 

 

 

This door doesn't close after the cannon gets destroyed, and you can go in and replay the fight ad infinitum.  Is there an event flag that isn't triggering?

 

 

And now for the rest, starting with a couple surprisingly close to home.

 

 

These two bushes use the rock under combo, like the four in the graveyard did.  It took me this long to realize they were burnable. >_>

 

 

 

And, no side warp is set when you leave to the west, even though you're entering the Lost Woods.  I don't believe there's one going in the other direction, either.

 

 

A quick detour to the Dream World...

 

 

You can find transition errors in the strangest of places.

 

 

 

The Winged Boots have no pickup message.

 

 

Both the activated switch and activated warp tile have weird colors.

 

 

 

This warp tile never turns on, even when you activate the one at the end.  It could also use a recolor. >_>

 

 

Another run through the overworld...

 

 

I had a feeling this would happen.  The nature of this shortcut puts you in the wrong DMap no matter which way you take it.  You can fix this one by setting a side warp to the north that puts you in the Lon Lon Heights DMap, and ones to the south and east that put you in the Lost Woods DMap.  It might mark the first time anyone has used all four side warps on a screen. >_>

 

 

 

This cave is basically a dead end.  It's actually designed more to leave through this entrance than it is to enter through it.

 

...Which would raise the question of how Link exited through a bombable wall, when it arguably isn't worth making bombable in the first place. >_>

 

 

 

On the top half of this dead tree, there's just one pixel that was accidentally made transparent.  You can see Link's foot through it here.

 

 

 

These conveyors have the problem the ones in the Excavation Site used to have: they point south, but move north.

 

 

And a quick sign of things to come.  Hoo boy, we're getting close to full blown plot spoilers now...

 

 

I want to say the first line is a complete sentence, and needs a period at the end.

 

 

 

And finally, what the hell is going on with the lava falls?

 

 

Notes:

-Was the sprite for the Winged Boots always the current one?  Right now it looks like Link is riding on top of a giant boot SMB3-style whenever you use it.

-There was one other puzzle besides all the numbered doors on 3F that I didn't get: the final picture pattern one.  I couldn't make heads or tails of it.  Was there another wrong tile in there?

-Any reason you made an orange rupee worth 200 and a strangely-shaded white one worth 100?  Would it be worth changing the 100 to orange and making a silver one for 200, for consistency's sake?

-Can I do anything on B3 of the Excavation Site until I have the Mirror Shield?  And what's up with the one room on the west side of 1F and the two below it on B1 that I can't get into?

Edited by Zenith, 12 July 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[ShadowTiger]

Quote
I mean I never saw any path at all. When I went back, it put me right back into the trials for the belt. Is that a bug, or should I check again somehow?

Oh crap I'm sorry THAT dojo. Sea Dog's Dojo. I thought you meant my Dojo, which incidentally, is also found in Capital Port. At least my Dojo isn't required to progress the game. In that case, ... requote!

Quote
-When is the rest of the Dojo supposed to open up? I never saw any option to learn any new techniques...

It's just the Wand. Though there is a Magic Container available in the maze path. To get to it, from the start of the maze, go:

Spoiler

West three times, then Bomb the north wall. You'll need the L2 Arrows, which you should already have to have gotten up the vines.

Quote
Not an actual bug, but this puzzle is way too easy. If you changed the arrow in front of Link to go down, and the one on his right to go right, then players would have to go through more of the room than just the southwest corner.

Then again, with all the crazy tile warps that puzzle uses, changing it is easier said than done...

Yeah. I was looking into a scripting solution, such that if you're standing on an arrow, you can't move in the opposite direction. But I have very little of the proverbial foggiest idea on how to go about doing that. I mean if I can find out how to check for Link's position relative to a combo type, then it's easy.

Quote
There is currently no way to activate the secrets in this room. The only reason I knew where to go was because of the Lens.

I think this was intentional. It's not a "secret to trigger" per se, but just a way to allow the player to use the Lens if they have it. Otherwise, ... well, ... Enigma Castle.

Quote
The south end of the room, however, is a trap.



And the four raised blocks on the far right are misleading, in that they never go down. Maybe replace them with regular dungeon blocks?

Made a few changes to the room. Just a few. Oddly, mostly combo-related. They should work out nicely.

Quote
The 2 and 5 on the south wall are backwards. It seems they were vertically flipped, but not horizontally flipped to make them face the right way.



(This was one of the aforementioned rooms where I had no clue what the puzzle was. >_>)

I suppose that's one reason why. Good find. I don't turn my head that much when I'm questing. The correct solution, by the way, was the lower-left door. But you probably got that already.

Quote
This door doesn't close after the cannon gets destroyed, and you can go in and replay the fight ad infinitum. Is there an event flag that isn't triggering?

Okay, I did a brief little script that untriggers the secrets on the courtyard door screen, effective once you leave the screen.

Quote
I had a feeling this would happen. The nature of this shortcut puts you in the wrong DMap no matter which way you take it. You can fix this one by setting a side warp to the north that puts you in the Lon Lon Heights DMap, and ones to the south and east that put you in the Lost Woods DMap. It might mark the first time anyone has used all four side warps on a screen. >_>

Good catch!

Quote
This cave is basically a dead end. It's actually designed more to leave through this entrance than it is to enter through it.

...Which would raise the question of how Link exited through a bombable wall, when it arguably isn't worth making bombable in the first place. >_>

Mm.. On one hand, it actually isn't a dead end. It's meant to provide an optional exit point for something which you drop down from above. But yes, you're absolutely right, he shouldn't exit through a bombable wall. Removing now.

Quote
-Was the sprite for the Winged Boots always the current one? Right now it looks like Link is riding on top of a giant boot SMB3-style whenever you use it.

There's no better way to do it. The original game never separated the item sprite from the "Whatever the heck Link actually rides" sprite. So he rides a giant pair of boots instead of wearing a smaller pair. It's messed up.

Quote
-There was one other puzzle besides all the numbered doors on 3F that I didn't get: the final picture pattern one. I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Was there another wrong tile in there?

Which one? There's a bunch of puzzles there. In which quadrant of the level is this one, and what shape was the room? Any enemies on it?

Quote
-Can I do anything on B3 of the Excavation Site until I have the Mirror Shield? And what's up with the one room on the west side of 1F and the two below it on B1 that I can't get into?

Which rooms are those? All of them should be accessible; the ones on F-1 are all reachable through bombable walls. All of the bottom-left 2x2 section of rooms. On B-1, from the exact middle of B-1, you can go directly south, through defeating enemies and bombing southern walls. Then when you're on the southernmost edge of B-1, there shouldn't be much stopping anyone from going west. Not sure which rooms you're referring to if they're giving you problems.


Another update.

[Zenith]

...I just lost three hours' worth of progress.

 

I made it most of the way through Level 7.  Found the Map, Compass, Boss Key, but no item yet.  I was trying to figure out how to get to the west side of the main room on the first floor.

 

Thanks to the Lens revealing something, I found my way onto a walkway just above the entrance, where a Relic Stone sat there.  I already had one, so I kept my distance.

 

A while after that and after having checked every passage imaginable and found no solution, I ended up on that walkway again, looking for a Hookshot point I hadn't seen before or somewhere to fall.  I start pressing keys in frustration, wondering what I could've missed.

 

...Suddenly, I hear the item fanfare.  I look at the screen and realize I just touched the Relic Stone.

 

I had to reset immediately, if I didn't want to make it impossible to get everything in the ruins.

 

...And now I have to do the entire seventh dream area all over again.

 

An entire day's progress, gone.  Just...like that.  And now I'm left wondering what I should've done, if I should've saved once or twice before that and toughed out the long journey back every time, should've realized the longer I went without saving the more I was tempting fate...

 

It's been a recurring thing for me the last couple years.  I'm unlucky.  I plan and strategize the best I can, and fate laughs in my face.  Any time I make too much progress, I get pulled right back down to where I was before.

 

...Maybe it's for the best, anyway.  I already have so many screenshots that I'll need a two parter.  Is this some kind of twisted punishment for wanting to finish a quest I never got to before, and slowly making that more important than finding the bugs and glitches I was asked to find?

 

I mean...hell, I couldn't even find the Red Mail.  There was nowhere left to look, nowhere more to bomb that the Lens would tell me.