431 replies to this topic

[Deedee]

Spoiler

 

I'm not fast enough at this puzzle. Help!

Spoiler

Keep Link and Zelda, use either aquamentus or Zelda's arrows to switch, Ex2 to switch while magnet. Can be done from top end.

[Mitsukara]

Hello everyone! Sorry I haven't been around much the past few days, but I'm back with an announcement that (what I really hope to be) the final update, Version 1.3, is up on the quest database! It should be up within a day, and as before, it should still cooperate properly with old save files (but you should make backups first). The Support Pack file has also been updated this time.

 

Old changelist from version 1.1

Old changelist from Version 1.2

 

Version 1.3 Changelist:

1. Changed the houses in Caragonne Town to have solid top-halves on the doors. Previously, this allowed you to get the heart piece on the roof in an unintended way.
2. A broken sidewarp to re-enter the top of Terui Palace, which I apparently broke in 1.2, has been fixed.
3. The hookshot won't get you stuck if you use it as you fall into lava anymore (I think).
4. A superball trigger in Miyahon has been fixed so it can be hit with Link's vertical superball.
5. If you stand near a save point and open the music selector, the text no longer overlaps.
6. I've added a special life meter graphic for Moosh's postgame boss, instead of the standard one.
7. Added a missing black-screen transition in Maze Palace that previously allowed you to scroll into a wall if you were too high up.
8. Improved Error Mode slightly.
9. Yamauchi Palace can now be entered and completed without the sword or arrows, if you have enough bombs.

Support Pack 1.3 changelist:

1. There were two corrections to the Instruction Manual Booklet (the key ring was added, and a typo at the end of page 10 was fixed).
2. Added a line in the Secrets and Guides "weird exploits" document about a certain wallhacking trick Dimentio discovered.
3. Added a "Story References and Jokes" document to the Secrets and Guides, listing most of the references in the game (as I did rambled off in a spoiler block earlier in this thread), although most of the Zelda 1, Zelda II, LTTP, Link's Awakening, and OoT references are unlisted due to their sheer quantity.
4. All the Support Pack changes from 1.1 and 1.2.
5. Added an extra music file for particular use in Error Mode.

 

I hope that's everything that needed fixing. Here's a couple weird things I know are still the case, but don't intend to fix:

• You can still go down into the lava while playing the flute on the ladder... sorry! But on the bright side, you never actually need to play the flute while standing on the ladder in sideview.
• The Maze Palace map layout is kinda weird, with a spot where you fall down a pit and then appear two rooms to the left. I hate rearranging maps and left it as-is, since it's technically still usable, just... slightly confusing.
• Standing near a save point, but not perfectly on it, means it will say "Press Start to save" when it won't actually save. This is because the way ZC's built-in save points want you to line up on the tile is REALLY finicky for some reason and I couldn't figure out how to align the area it checks to display the message properly. Sorry for any confusion.
• Similarly, standing near stationary fairies may case the subscreen's flash effect even when you haven't touched them yet. It's the secret of the Fairy Disco!
• There's a billion ways to exploit items in potentially game-breaking ways (see the Item Trickery exploits document in Secrets and Guides for a list of what I knowingly left in).
• I can almost guarantee I accidentally spelled "Separate" as "Seperate" somewhere, as my brain is thoroughly convinced it's spelled that way when it really isn't.
• Many scripted enemies don't have proper knockback because I never learned to Ghost.zh like all the cool kids do.
• There's still lag problems (see below).
• The whole game is a janky pile of crud. Bah!

(That said, there's one thing I want to reiterate: if anyone wants to use any or all elements of this quest themselves for their own new quest or edited quest variant, or even a heavily fixed up version of this quest or a randomizer or whatever, they are free to do so. I may not be around to help figure out how to use it, and any element of it can probably be done better in some other way... but I will never, ever object to anyone imitating any of what I did here. If anyone else berates you for imitating it, let them feel my scorn and disapproval from my vantage point here in the past, because you totally have my permission to do that. If you want to do any of this kind of stuff, I say go for it, I'd love to see it! Although giving credit would be nice.)
 
I've missed a lot of discussion, so let me respond to all the feedback at once...
 

 

This quest is extremely impressive o_o
I just wish the scripts were a bit less resource intensive, my pc for ZC is kind of crappy >.<

Thanks! Sorry about the slowness though. This quest definitely has slowdown problems on older systems; it doesn't play that well on my own if I've got my internet browser open, either. (My computer is assembled from 5+ year old parts and is running Windows 7, with 2GB of RAM. When I try to watch streams, they barely work at all... when Dimentio streamed his test plays he cranked the settings way way down for me, and I still missed half or more of what he was doing, and anybody streaming at standard bitrates just doesn't load much at all on my end, so, yeah.)

I did what I could figure out about how to speed it up (it was worse during early beta testing), but there's some things that doesn't fix (especially if there's a lot of enemies or a lot of enemy weapons, such as fires, on the screen), because I have the global script checking way too many things at once (and a lot of my code is probably sketchy and dubious since the whole thing was a learning experience). But yeah, I'm pretty certain my scripting was not efficient.

(I've also heard from one tester that the "7 Grand Dad" joke mode has extra lag all it's own, but I still can't figure out exactly why that part's happening.)

Sorry that the lag got unplayably bad, though : (

Sadly, I won't be fixing it any time soon because it would basically require a ground-up rebuild of the entire global script (which is over 8000 lines of code). I'd rather make a better new quest instead, and before then I have some other personal stuff to work on first. Sorry!
 

 

Well, the only slowdown I got was in the north palace, where I tried to kill the infinite Gels and Zols.

Basically, the way I understand the lag is like this:

• Each additional enemy causes slightly more lag (because I'm checking each one for certain effects continuously, and probably phrased some of those checks badly).
• Each additional weapon/projectile/fire/etc causes more lag (same reason).
• The quest is checking a bunch of other things continuously also, mostly in order to handle the partner system and the many custom items you can use anywhere, but also some little stuff. Any weird behavior you can do on basically any screen of the game, is being checked for constantly, meaning a little bit of a constant CPU burden.
• Certain elements only run on certain screens by using FFC scripts that are set on that screen, such as most boss monsters, special puzzles with things like pressure plates and elevators, and so on; but these might add to the lag a little bit if they happen to be present.
• The Ladder and Flute both run special FFC scripts when used, which might cause additional lag until you leave the screen or put them away.

In my case, I can run a standard default quest, like 1st.qst, at 350-450 frames per second if I uncap. I can only run LaZPoC at 100-200FPS maximum, on a good day.

Based on feedback (here, beta testers, etc), most players only seem to encounter meaningful lag when there's a very high number of things onscreen (generally from the infinite Zols, and often from enemies that make a lot of fire if you let them keep doing that).

However, if you have a somewhat crummier computer like I do, you may also start getting lag at random intervals, especially if your computer is trying to do anything else intensive (Windows update, Internet Browser stuff, etc). I actually get a very small amount of this random lag with ZC in general, but more of it in my quest than any other. When you combine this random lag with having too many objects at once, it gets much worse.

So basically it all adds up and my quest is kinda always laggier than normal, so, older systems can't always keep up. I can usually get it to run okay on mine, but I might need to close my browser, or mess with my system processes a little bit (like turning ZC to be "Above Normal" priority in the task manager- which is probably not recommended? I don't know how Windows' underpinnings really work, so I take no responsibility for anyone else if you try changing that setting like I do sometimes).
 

 

why the day/night system is so faaast? It's a bit weird.

It is a bit unrealistic, but I was basically optimizing for ease of play in terms of things that were daytime-dependant, and in terms of being more likely to see the cycle play out, rather than realism. Even then it's probably a bit faster than, say, Simon's Quest or Dragon Quest III, which used similar concepts.

I also just wanted to mix up the feel of the environment frequently, so the weather changes pretty often too.

Regarding all the weird stuff I threw in, I definitely erred on the side of including every idea I wanted to, rather than any sort of minimalism. So the whole thing may play a little like a big proof of concept tech demo or something. But I tried to think at least about how the different elements would interact and combine over the course of the game, and sort of made a weird chart plan of what I was doing when I made it to think what items would allow which kinds of puzzles and stuff like that. But basically, I winged it and tried to use everything I could think of and wanted to do, especially when it comes to items. Items are my favorite thing in Zelda games.
 

 

more like Zelda 1

Hmm, if you say so. : ) But personally, I feel more like I took a giant grab bag of items, everything I could recreate from Zelda II but ducking mechanics and other proper mechanical subtleties, and sort of took some bits of Chip's Challenge puzzles and Lost Vikings puzzles to a heavily-sequence-broken game of LTTP like a can opener, along with a crude approximation of Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin's partner system, and glued the whole mess together.
 

 

I always have the dream to play the REAL ZELDA 3. But I never imagined it this way xD

This was also part of my thinking when I started out, but I think I made it way too complicated for something that could appear on the NES. Instead, it drifted more in a direction of "what if you had unlimited cartridge space to develop on, to make the game bigger and more complex in every way" kinda thing. I've often dreamed of a game like Super Mario World, but with four times as many branching paths, and a huge bank with like 50 kinds of powerups, and levels where even a cape and blue yoshi or a P-wing couldn't cheese it because there'd be elaborate sky hazards just like on the ground... eheheh. Sadly, I doubt I'll be realizing that specific dream anytime soon, but, same kind of idea here with what I was going for.
 

 

Originally Posted by Sparkster:
The Mau's keep destroying my bettle!!

 

Originally Posted by Alucard648:

Took me 450 tries to solve this.

I'd kill the maus first with the Bola or some other sort of weapon, if possible. Sorry for the pain though! : (
 

 

I'm already stuck at this kind of puzzle. That looks a bit too complex for me.

Here's a full step-by-step description of the two intended solutions; that's one of the hardest puzzles in the game probably, but also a little bit janky (in terms of how it can get messed up).

Spoiler

Method 1:

1. Use Zelda's switch hook on the Urchin.
2. Use Link's wall rope to get up by the blocks.
3. Use the sword or some similar means to destroy one of the top handy gloveblocks, to drop one of the two pushblocks.
4. Push a block to the left, which will leave a conveyor underneath that will move the Blaino statue.
5. Punch the Blaino statue straight down, to destroy the left column of weapon-destroying blocks.
6. Use bow-wow to eat the swamp flowers so you can step on the switch.

Method 2:

1. Separate characters.
2. Have one stand directly above the left column of weapon-destroying blocks. Make sure to face down.
3. Have the other stand by the statue. Make sure to face left, then punch the statue.
4. Immediately switch to the other character, and quickly have them punch the statue down to destroy the blocks.

...but I think it might also be possible to pass it in other ways?

Edited by Mitsukara, 31 January 2017 - 09:59 AM.

[xenomicx]

TWO QUESTIONS:

1) How do I get past this?

ANSWER: Used hookshot
 

 

2) How do I solve this?

 

 

 

EDIT: TWO MORE:

 

3) This door won't open after I purchase the key.

 

4) And I can't open this! I can't get the statue to got back to the right after he falls.

Edited by xenomicx, 30 January 2017 - 10:47 PM.

[Deedee]

TWO QUESTIONS:

1) How do I get past this?

ANSWER: Used hookshot
 

 

2) How do I solve this?

 

 

 

EDIT: TWO MORE:

 

3) This door won't open after I purchase the key.

 

4) And I can't open this! I can't get the statue to got back to the right after he falls.

Spoiler

2. Use the superball shooter. You can use the beetle to drag it through the statue for the easy solution. 

3. That won't open until later. Try going through the curtains.

4. Split Link and Zelda up and move them to opposite sides of room, switch between them when the armos falls. You may need a new item for aquamentus though...

[naal]

Finished Soejima and Marui. How do I gain access to the 2 remaining dungeons?

[Mitsukara]

Nakago Palace can be found to the west...

Spoiler

By the boats. Navigate across the little fleet of Moblin and Goriya boats one by one to reach it.

 

Terui Palace is to the north, and may be trickier (but quicker) to get into. First you need to...

Spoiler

investigate the base of the little hill with a path going north from it.

Specifically, you need to

Spoiler

dig beneath the dirt mound to reveal a spot to plant a Magic Bean.

Xenomicx: Dimentio's mostly got it covered. However, if you can't figure out what to do about the Aquamentus, then first, you should...

Spoiler

investigate the elevator shaft to the west. The shaft itself. As was sometimes the case in Zelda 1, The map doesn't show you everything.

Edited by Mitsukara, 31 January 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[Sparkster]

Spoiler

 

"VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF ITEMS!"

 

More like Variety is the spice of TOTAL confusion. So... to make a long story short?! What am I supposed to do here?

Edited by Sparkster, 31 January 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[ywkls]

Spoiler

 

"VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF ITEMS!"

 

More like Variety is the spice of TOTAL confusion. So... to make a long story short?! What am I supposed to do here?

This was the only thing that stumped me in my playthrough as a tester. The Spiny Habanero version of the bait can turn into a fire if you press the button again after setting it down.

[Deedee]

Spoiler

 

"VARIETY IS THE SPICE OF ITEMS!"

 

More like Variety is the spice of TOTAL confusion. So... to make a long story short?! What am I supposed to do here?

 

What ywkls said.

Spoiler

You can throw the bait through those walls.

Maybe it was me using the spicy bait a lot, but I never had problems with this puzzle (the entrance puzzle, on the other hand...)

Edited by Dimentio, 31 January 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[xenomicx]

Here is my inventory going into the Final Level (Gannon).

 

I'm also stuck in this room:



Also, PM me your email because as soon as I finish this quest I'm going to send you a bug report in a MS Word (.docx) file.

[Deedee]

Here is my inventory going into the Final Level (Gannon).

 

I'm also stuck in this room:

Spoiler

You're missing the 60 seashell reward, and the red heart/magic rings.

Also, that statue can break the block-all blocks, and can be hit again after it's been launched.

Spoiler

The push blocks leave behind conveyors to make it easier.

[Sparkster]

That's the fourth time already I stuck somewhere in "Gannon".

 

 

How am I able to get up to the stairs?

[xenomicx]

How do I get past this room in Gannon?

[Sparkster]

From this pic you uploaded:

 

Spoiler

So. One should be at the right side while the other is at the center. You can stop the armos and reactivate it again to solve this puzzle.

[Mitsukara]

How am I able to get up to the stairs?

Do you recall how you got high-up for certain palaces in Triple Eye Rock?

Spoiler

The L-2 Beetle can move the ladder while you're on it, or move a separated partner.

 

 

 

How do I get past this room in Gannon?

You need to move the Armos statue with the turning magic from the rod (hold the button). You can activate it from different parts of the room to get it to move the ways you need it to. Eventually you can get it over to step on the blue switch, which will make a switch diamond on the left side.

 

As far as inventory, you've got all the critical stuff before the Castle of Gannon; it's possible to get a stronger heart ring and magic ring though, by, as hinted in the manual and a hidden door repair charge room in Hyrule,

Spoiler

buying another blue one of each. They stack to upgrade into red ones.

The 60 seashell reward isn't really that great, probably not worth it for most players (unless you don't mind using a guide). What it gives you is...

Spoiler

an extra level in each of the three abilities. But that's only a small boost to each.

Originally I was going to only have a 40 seashell reward and just have the others be extras, but, Zoria convinced me there should be a completionist reward, and then I liked the idea of the Seashell mansion having a second progress bar that appears, and then this happened.

Edited by Mitsukara, 01 February 2017 - 08:36 AM.