326 replies to this topic

[Moosh]

I'm fairly sure that you can get the arrow from the deathknight without dying because (last I checked) items have a slightly offset hitbox. Actually pulling it off, however, would be a real pain in the ass. Easier than getting to that room without getting jinxed, but still tricky.

[James24]

I don't really care much for the challenge quest culture of minimalist, speed runs and 0 gaming.  I know that other challenge quest players seem to like those things but in my view, if you win then you win and that's the end of things.  Winning is all that matters - how you do so is purely for bragging rights and such.  But using f6 to avoid death and then saving when you win and retrying when you don't is cheating isn't it - for a 0 gaming run?

 

I can see Zecora's argument though with respect to slashing to get the item.  There is a blue sword jinx in the lynel/goriya room and you can use that jinx to backtrack to the death knight room.  I don't think you'd get through the item jinxes, so possibly a quick slash when Link is very close to the door entrance and then a retreat?  Would that be possible?  I'd have to see a video to believe it, but it might just be doable.

 

Anyone guess what my elegant solution is in LoH: IE?  Link touches a death knight (no script or artificial editing on the enemy or Link) with 8 hearts and no ring.  Link is both item and sword jinxed.  He grabs the item and survives.  The item is not in anyway scripted or edited - it is one of those included with ZQuest.  No prizes for my beta testers

[Mero]

@Gleeok:

I'm sorry to say this good sir but I do count a retry as a death, but as a death of different sorts. You have to do every goddamn thing up to the point where you last saved. The reason I prefer retry to continue in the first place is realism. When you die you don't keep the stuff you got and you have to start from your last save. Similar to your survival horror games and what not. Which if you know me is my favorite genre. In otherwords it doesn't count against you. I probably died "insert 3 digit number here" times at least none of which counted against me cause I chose retry. Make sense?

 

@James42, Just to let you know the only reason I posted was to let you know that it is possible and didn't expect you to add me to your list cause of the description you gave "I guaratee you will not be zero gaming this quest"; only reason I challenged that claim was to rustle my own jimmies out of boredom. I'm a masochist by nature and enjoy these things though. "I actually played the original La Mulana on hardmode the first time through cause I'm a dumbass and didn't know how hard it was" Anyways, I'm looking forward to IE version. Cause I need to rustle my jimmies some more.

 

edit: I wouldn't consider it cheating, you could bring up the menu on the NES Player 2 controller in fact, but that's your call. Also I'm going to accept your challenge and try to grab the arrow off that vile deathknight and then exit out of the room as fast as possible. Got to rustle my own jimmies some more.

Edited by Zecora, 29 January 2014 - 09:58 PM.

[James24]

Zecora - I'd have to see it to believe it.  If anyone claims that they can beat LoH from start to finish without dying or using retry to escape a death or cheating in any other form, they'd have to show me a continuous video of them playing for however long it takes to complete the quest.  I doubt youtube would host such a long video so it might be imposssible to prove.  But hey, proving that its possible to grab the arrow off the death knight without cheating (altering the game beyond the abilities of a normal player) or using a retry to escape the death part would already be something I thought impossible.  I look forward to your video...

[Mero]

Since your quest is so awesome I'm going to try playing it without using retry and see if I can beat your record!

Edited by Zecora, 30 January 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Haylee]

Zecora - I'd have to see it to believe it.  If anyone claims that they can beat LoH from start to finish without dying or using retry to escape a death or cheating in any other form, they'd have to show me a continuous video of them playing for however long it takes to complete the quest.  I doubt youtube would host such a long video so it might be imposssible to prove.  But hey, proving that its possible to grab the arrow off the death knight without cheating (altering the game beyond the abilities of a normal player) or using a retry to escape the death part would already be something I thought impossible.  I look forward to your video...

I'd hate to be rude, but didn't you say at one point that the quest is possible to beat without deaths? (I'm fairly sure I've seen you mention this at some point in time, I just can't remember when.) What's this "impossible without cheating" area all about? F6ing isn't cheating either, it's not altering the game in any way, shape or form. If anything it's just a strategy to help you zero death the game. And hell, even if you consider F6ing cheating, then literally the only way to beat this game is to have 1 death, which, even by challenge standards, is legitimately bad game design.

[Shane]

See with things like Cat Mario, you will die on your first playthrough, but on your second, you can possibly 0 Death it. It's called learning strategies (or improvement), and this game has none at all, you're just dying and relying on luck. If you have to resort to countless deaths to achieve that feel of success just once, then that's not worth it IMO.

 

The challenge genre might bring up the Game Over screen more than once, but there has to be a way where you can avoid death. A challenge quest challenges you to pull through, not challenge your patience with the Game Over screen.

Edited by Charizard, 30 January 2014 - 08:00 PM.

[Mero]

Hmm...well, you're right there are a lot of diabolical things I did. But they are all possible and all solvable by the elite expert player. Just wait until you get to fortress 5 But, there are no instant death rooms anywhere in my quest I made sure of that(except possibly the spike room in level 1 on the very first attempt because the player would not have seen the spikes on dying yet). I hate cheap/lame difficulty so in each room you have a fair chance of winning if you're good enough.

 

Dying to get an item is anything but winning James.

[strike]

This is just me but why do video game players not like dying? What's so inherently awful about it? There's usaully no long time loss. In fact it is usually beneficial (unless you're playing Liberation). My strategy is usually run in, die, and figure out what I did wrong. If James feels like having one "puzzle" (it's stupid, but still) where you are required to die, that's not the end of the world.

Guys, don't feed flamers (sorry if I'm too harsh). Everything will be okay.

-Strike

[Shane]

We (or at least, I) like the chance of dying and being on the edge most of the time, but mandatory death? No thank you.

Also I would like to hear of this/these strategy/ies, because if you ask me, the only strategy that can justify such harsh difficulty is learning how to 0 Death run it. Otherwise, there's no point in keeping strategies, you'll die either way.

Edited by Charizard, 30 January 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[strike]

Shane, why? I don't really get it.

-Strike

[Moosh]

Shane, why? I don't really get it.

-Strike

I think what he's trying to say is he likes being reckless and is okay with dying, but doesn't appreciate having to do something counter-intuitive like dying or taking damage to proceed.

[strike]

I agree then.

-Strike

[Shane]

I'm okay with dying, and learning/improving my mistakes. But since this quest author said you cannot 0 death run it, I feel like there's no point in making strategies or improving. You just have to rely on luck and be reckless most of the time. It's not fun.

[Moosh]

Anyways, one mandatory death here and there isn't a good thing, but it certainly isn't the end of the world and that's why I'd say it's a fairly minor point for me. The other things I mentioned definitely are the end of the world though and if you do them, congratulations, you've started armageddon...quest.

 

I've picked up LoH again and I'm making backup save files this time. Hopefully if I sacrifice enough good background music to this game I'll actually be able to beat it this time.